It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:39 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:57 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:41 pm
Posts: 1
Hello: I bought this guitar body and neck only. Previous owner kept the electronics and pickups. I bought the original white pearl pick guard, used my Texas Special pickups, new potentiometers, capacitor, etc. I bought a new Fender bridge and brass inserts; the original screw-in pins were included with the body/neck. My problem is that both inserts are loose in the holes; they easily just fall out from gravity alone. The inserts have vertical ribs but there is no indication that anything like it was ever inserted in either hole. One of the holes is clearly a little out of round and the insert in the hole clearly has some play.

I'm thinking I can play it like this without using the tremolo if I somehow get the inserts firmly installed. Maybe some wood slivers to take-up the play. Otherwise it looks like I would have to drill out a slightly larger hole and glue in new wood then drill new holes.

Looking for advice, thanks.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:47 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
leon2982 wrote:
it looks like I would have to drill out a slightly larger hole and glue in new wood then drill new holes.

.



Fill the hole with round piece of wood and glue.
Drill new holes to fit tight the post

Guitar as is may won't stay in tune


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:07 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:49 am
Posts: 661
Location: Cambridge UK
stratele52 wrote:
leon2982 wrote:
it looks like I would have to drill out a slightly larger hole and glue in new wood then drill new holes.

.



Fill the hole with round piece of wood and glue.
Drill new holes to fit tight the post

Guitar as is may won't stay in tune

I've had exactly this problem with my 1993 Plus, also to a lesser extent with a 1991 AmStd. When you string it up the trem will be crooked and intonation is hard/impossible. Tried the Stratele approach (I'm pretty good at woodwork), which worked but I wasn't totally happy with it. Sold the '91 and fitted a SuperVee Bladerunner to the Plus (as per ancient thread on this forum), which cured the problem. Alternatively you could fit a 6-screw trem. Neither solution is 'original', of course, but the SV doesn't offend the eyes too much!

I came to the conclusion that some 90's Strats have rather soft body wood, and there isn't much of it between the trem and pickup routing...

Cheers - Peter.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:49 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:57 am
Posts: 2238
Location: UK
Rather than try to plug and redrill the hole (this is far from ideal as the wood grain will be the wrong way to hold the ferrule any way) I think I would insert a greased bolt into the ferrule (to keep the internal thread clean) and reinstall in the original holes with epoxy resin.

The location of the holes are absolutely critical to allow the trem plate to ride on the crown of the post diameter (unless you swap to a Blade Runner) . The only chance to get a redrill right is with the body well clamped on a pillar drill. A hand held drill into end grain will almost certainly pull off centre.

_________________
John

After all this time I should be better.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:55 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
John Sims wrote:
The only chance to get a redrill right is with the body well clamped on a pillar drill. A hand held drill into end grain will almost certainly pull off centre.



+1

A press ( pilar ? ) drill is a must


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:45 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:49 am
Posts: 661
Location: Cambridge UK
Having actually done this job a couple of times, OP needs to understand that to do the job PROPERLY isn't simple. Pillar drill and router are basics. Refinishing the area isn't simple. There's quite a good video online somewhere which shows the work involved (Mr Google will supply), and it's not for the amateur.

Or he could fit a Bladerunner - the 4-screw mounted type, not 2-post.

Cheers - Peter.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:30 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
I think if it were me I would likely go the epoxy route as I think that method stands a better chance of resulting in properly located bushings.

Also, just for the sake of clarity, I suspect the real name of the guitar is a MIA Strat Plus Deluxe.
I have my doubts about it being an American Deluxe Strat Plus.
It might seem like a small distinction at first, just rearranging the words, but it has significance as far as meaning and lineage.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:11 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:49 am
Posts: 661
Location: Cambridge UK
Quote:
I think if it were me I would likely go the epoxy route as I think that method stands a better chance of resulting in properly located bushings.


Worth a try, but I did and it wasn't strong enough. Worked for a while but the post/stud started pulling over again (towards the neck).

You need to remove a circular plug of wood (centred on the stud hole) of quite a large diameter, 2" - 2.5", and at least the depth of the stud, so that it encroaches on the p/up cavity. Then make up a replacement hardwood plug with the grain going the same way as the body, and epoxy it in. Then re-rout it back to fit the trem and p/up cavities and drill the stud hole. Fit the stud, and refinish - although to be fair most of the new wood is covered by the scratchplate and trem, so perfection isn't perhaps necessary.

This is really the only way to achieve a repair that will bring the original strength back. Get a luthier to do it and it'll be cheaper to buy a new body! Do it yourself and the cost of the equipment is again more than a Fender body! A Bladerunner is the cheapest easiest way if originality doesn't matter.

Cheers - Peter.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:23 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
In order to plug a hole and redrill you will want to have another body in good condition on hand to create a precise template for laying out the holes and a drill press with a means of limiting hole depth. A drill bit that creates a flat bottomed hole would also be advisable. A person who is not sufficiently competent with woodworking tools should probably not attempt such an operation as even a slightly misdrilled hole will create problems for the proper functioning of the bridge.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:14 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 2638
Location: Pacific North West, USA
I have fixed many of these with epoxy. No need to do the purist thing and risk messing the guitar up. Just a small amount of epoxy down the hole, and a very light coating around the ferrule, then tap in the ferrule. Quickly wipe any excess off. Screw in the steel post about 1/2 inch and use it to line the ferrule straight up and down. Allow the epoxy to set up. Very easy. If there are any gaps after the epoxy sets up just mix up a little more and fill using a dental tool or toothpick. Clean up again while it is wet. This will bind the wood back in place and secure the post.

_________________
Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:44 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:49 am
Posts: 661
Location: Cambridge UK
Xhefri wrote:
I have fixed many of these with epoxy. No need to do the purist thing and risk messing the guitar up. Just a small amount of epoxy down the hole, and a very light coating around the ferrule, then tap in the ferrule. Quickly wipe any excess off. Screw in the steel post about 1/2 inch and use it to line the ferrule straight up and down. Allow the epoxy to set up. Very easy. If there are any gaps after the epoxy sets up just mix up a little more and fill using a dental tool or toothpick. Clean up again while it is wet. This will bind the wood back in place and secure the post.

As I said, by all means try it, and if it works for you, great...

Xhefri, out of interest, is it your opinion that some of these 90's bodies are 'soft', as I suggest? I only have one Plus (and another '91 AmStd (now sold) with the problem, whereas I know you have millions of Pluses! I don't know what the body wood is/was on either of the problematic ones. Would they have been poplar, which I believe is softer than alder or ash?

Cheers - Peter.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:49 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:08 am
Posts: 5
I have this problem with an early 90's Strat Ultra. I think I will try to replace with a Bladerunner (nice looking IMHO, but a little pricey).

I'm very interested in what you say about 4 screw vs 2 post, I wouldn't want to order the wrong one.

What happens to the existing 2 holes, do these need to be filled in?

Is this a difficult job? (I know my way around guitars and set-ups but I got a C in shop!)

BTW for thanks to everyone for sharing, this problem has put my Strat on injured reserve and I'd like to get it back in the starting lineup.

------------

Having actually done this job a couple of times, OP needs to understand that to do the job PROPERLY isn't simple. Pillar drill and router are basics. Refinishing the area isn't simple. There's quite a good video online somewhere which shows the work involved (Mr Google will supply), and it's not for the amateur.

Or he could fit a Bladerunner - the 4-screw mounted type, not 2-post.

Cheers - Peter.[/quote]


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:31 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
thechas7 wrote:
I'm very interested in what you say about 4 screw vs 2 post, I wouldn't want to order the wrong one.

BladeRunner comes in "six screw" (for vintage trems; actually it's only attached with four screws because they wanted space for the logo... ), "two post" (for modern trems) and "uni-mount" (guess...) versions, SuperVee only comes in uni-mount. And they have a "two post adapter set" for uni-mounts.

I recall reading Peter S used the SuperVee four screw method on a two-post trem, plugging the two original holes and redrilling four new. Some refin probably needed (?).
As an opinion: on an Ultra, I'd take the epoxy way.

Quote:
I know my way around guitars and set-ups but I got a C in shop

Take the guitar to a good pro, which ever fix you choose. It's an Ultra... :wink:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:25 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 2638
Location: Pacific North West, USA
I would like to reply Peter's question and about thechas7 thoughts. First of all the hardness or softness of the wood can change with species, but also each species can vary depending on where the wood comes from. For-instance, wood from a top cut of a tree will be softer than a butt cut down by the the trunk. I think it odd that I have seen some really ruined bodies from the bridge pole literally leaning and the wood broken out. Something had to hit the bridge for this to happen. Also sometimes the brass ferrules was pressed into really tight totally cured wood and then cracks happen as the guitar ends up in a very humid climate. The reverse can happen and the ferrules become loose when in a dry climate. Wood's stability is dependent on humidity and other factors. There are a lot of ways a post could end up pulled forward, such as someone putting .11s or even .12s on a guitar, as well.

I would never take a guitar, such as an Ultra, and fill the holes in and then amalgamate some after market bridge in. A friend of mine changed his bridge (upgraded he said) to a nice bridge that required drilling a extra hole in the body. Years later he tried to sell it and even though it was a really nice guitar, he was not able to get anywhere near market value. Ultras are becoming rarer, especially the early 1990s models. Ultra Strats are high end guitars and it is best to preserve them as much as you can!

Repairing the post holes is not that hard. If it is a matter of how bad things are. if the brass ferrules are just loose, a small amount of super glue will fix them. If the post is pulled forward some, then remove the brass ferrules and mix of some clear epoxy and put it down in the holes with a small tool. Make sure to mask off the area with tape, pressing your finger down on the tape where the hole is and the cutting the hole out with a razor knife. Then press in the ferrules and align them so they are strait. Then pull up the tape before the epoxy gets too hard. Again this will work for slightly bent post ferrules. If the wood is broken out then plugging and drilling are the last resort. This also requires a paint touch up and then changes the value of the instrument.

_________________
Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1994 American Deluxe Strat Plus -- Bridge Mounting
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:08 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:08 am
Posts: 5
Thanks all for this advice.

On my Ultra it is only one of the brass ferules that is loose in the hole - this was causing it to lean forward. The forward lean increases the space between the back of the bridge and the body on that side (the low string side), which was making the bridge unstable and hard to intonate.

The good news is that I have an interim solution that has allowed me to get the Strat back in the game. I used a simple wood toothpick which I wedged in place in the hole in front of the brass ferule. This has straightened the post out and I was able to restring and do a setup. (Although I now have to go back and try to figure out how to set the Hipshot Tremset device).

I know this is probably not a sustainable solution, but for now it is nice to get this Ultra out of the case. I just splurged on an H9 Max and the Lace Sensors on the Ultra really seem to pair great with it. I was using a newer Texas Roadhouse Special - I like that guitar a lot, but it seems to lack something when recording and using the H9.

Also, I suppose Xhefri is probably correct about the cause - I travel around the world for work and my guitars get subjected to both dry but mostly very humid weather. The first time I moved back in the 90's, the Ultra came to me after 6 weeks in a shipping container, and was in perfect tune when a took it out of the case. Also, I once tried to use Hybrid Slinkys on this guitar (the Wilkinson nut wasn't happy about this), a mistake in hindsight. Now that I'm older I try to take better care of the toys.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: