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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:51 am
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LawFlow wrote:
valvestate wrote:
John Sims wrote:
Should, in the future, you decide you want to interchange parts (other than pickups) you might have a few more problems getting parts that fit exactly first off. Not that you generally buy a guitar with the thought "I'm going to change this, that, this, that and that" ;-)


Thanks for all your inputs but may I know what could possible be an issue for parts replacement for an MIJ guitar? Maybe in the future... just some pickguard replacement to change it to parchment old look. :wink:
I like that guitar. The more I look at the pics, the more I want it. It's not like it's sight unseen. You've said you love it! I can attest, If you are happy with the sound, feel, looks and all that, these Fender guitars are pretty much idiot proof. You really can't break them and electronics can be replaced. Now, don't get me started on the new amps. I would have to have my warranty ducks in a row with those. Love mine though. Pull the trigger, don't look back.


Wooot! :lol: these are the comments that really gives the me the courage to really go for it. Thanks man...

Interestingly... didnt had this same feeling with my American. Standard when I purchased it a number of years back.. sure it feels good with the slim Modern C neck but I still had to upgrade the PUs to Dimarzio Area and saddles to my liking and had to pay like 1.3K back then... :wink:

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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:58 am
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jmattis wrote:
Just 'me tuppence' (My kingdom for a tuppence...)...

In general, all MIJ's I've owned/played have been great Fenders - in par or often above the 'made in anywhere' of the same price class.
And I don't fully agree with Arjay's "cheap and flimsy" regarding electronics or other hardware. Maybe not always CTS and CRL and DuncanDesigned and so on, but if they do the job, who cares? Besides, nowadays Ping is everywhere...
And: I get goose bumps from that "simpatico"..?!? - sure sounds somewhat condescending. :wink:

On this specific guitar, it's a Limited Edition model (because of that color, I believe), so no wonder there isn't a herd of those - in any store. And, AFAIK, it's not in production at the moment, so it's out of stock in most shops.

At ~1000 (that musicproductive link price) it's IMHO a bit on the high side, but valveside; if that color, HSS and contoured heel is what you must have then just squeeze your purse and go for it - even the tuners look like Gotoh, not PING. :mrgreen:
BTW, there was a model with painted headstock & neck, which would be my choice - if a used one could be found.


Indeed brother.. this is a Limited edition guitar and unfortunately, they dont have a Flip Flop model that has the overall color.. .

Pardon my ignorance but what is a "PING" tuner?

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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:31 am
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valvestate wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a "PING" tuner?


Go to your local guitar emporium, pick up a current Mexican or American Fender guitar, and it will have Ping tuning machines on it.
Even the vintage reissues.

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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:49 am
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stratmangler wrote:
Go to your local guitar emporium, pick up a current Mexican or American Fender guitar, and it will have Ping tuning machines on it.
Even the vintage reissues.


Ping......Mandarin for "junk".

And no, neither the AVRI's nor the pre-2006 MIM Classic Series were ever fitted with Ping tuners. They all featured the (excellent) Gotoh vintage-style repro's.

Fender no longer makes anything "better". They merely make them cheaper (to enhance their profit margin). That's why they switched vendors. Don't believe me? Take a magnet with you the next time you visit a GC and try to stick it to the neck plate of a new American-made Strat. It won't. Reason? They're now made of brass in lieu of the previous (and more expensive) steel. FMIC probably saved 35¢ on that "improvement". Bridge plates will likely follow suit.

Get a grip.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:12 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
stratmangler wrote:
Go to your local guitar emporium, pick up a current Mexican or American Fender guitar, and it will have Ping tuning machines on it.
Even the vintage reissues.


Ping......Mandarin for "junk".

And no, neither the AVRI's nor the pre-2006 MIM Classic Series were ever fitted with Ping tuners. They all featured the (excellent) Gotoh vintage-style repro's. Arjay


+1 the Gotoh tuners were excellent, hence the reason my new 50's MIM Classic Series Stratocaster has New honest to goodness Kluson's going on it, the Pings are cheapness personified.

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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:28 am
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Hmm... I may be uncanning some worms here, but it's Saturday so here goes...

First of all, don't get me wrong - I'm against the today's company policies of buying where it's cheapest etc. And when modding guitars, if I replace tuners I choose a quality brand.

But when a noob (no offence meant with the term) on a forum asks which tuning machines he/she/it should get for a Squier that won't stay in tune, my standard answer is that the problem is not the tuners.
And heck, my '64 Harmony mail order cheapo stays in tune with its on-the-verge-of-ridiculous originals.

So the wormy question, after that prolonged prelude:
Has anyone had some real life, practical problems with e.g. American Standard tuners (which these days are made by that infamous Ping)?


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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:26 am
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Retroverbial wrote:

Ping......Mandarin for "junk".


Arjay


Sorry, but that's just plain out horsefeathers! I can't help but read that one as "unadulterated gear snobbery".

The truth is that Ping brand tuners have been around a LONG time...they do in fact do a very decent job and MANY companies have used them over the years. Are they "as good" as Gotoh or Schaller (remember when Fender used those?)? No, probably not. Does it matter THAT much? No...not one damn bit. Of the 25+ guitars I currently own (recently thinned out the herd a bit due to the move), several of them have Ping tuners (including my Ovation acoustics) and wow...what do ya know...they hold tune just as well as any of my other instruments with higher end tuners. If anything, I have yet to have a Ping tuner actually go bad on me...I have however had a couple of Schallers and even a Kluson wear out.

No offense to anyone, but I have to call B.S. on that one...only an elitist would suggest that Pings are somehow "junk". Generic? Yea...sure. Junk? Hardly.


As far as the MIJ issue, personally I've long been a fan of MIJ instruments. In fact I've owned a couple of the older 80's MIJ's (still have one of them) and they are by far some of the best craftsmanship I've ever seen in commercially available instruments...truly first rate. As to the more recent MIJ's, I've only played a couple of the newer models here and there in stores over the years (all used), however they've all easily been on par with MIM's....very good quality instruments (including the e-tronics) and I wouldn't hesitate to own one, IF the price was right.

That said, on the world market, price can be a tad subjective to say the least. To me, that price is REALLY high...from my understanding, the current MIJ's are the European equivalent of MIM's as sold here in the US and I would tend to price them accordingly based of comparable features and such, although admittedly, it would also depend greatly on the individual instrument itself, how it played/felt/sounded, etc.. On the other hand, I'm also a renowned cheapskate as well...I just don't fork out that kind of cash for something on a whim...as they say, Your Millage May Vary.


Just my own opinions as always.


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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:08 am
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Whatever you say, pal.

My scrap bin is full of Ping parts -- bridges, saddles, tuners, trem arms. You're welcome to them all. Drop by anytime and pick them up.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:03 am
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It's never my intent to be disagreeable, but I did the magnet test on my 2014 MIA Standard Strat and nearly everything is magnetic as heck (tuners, bridge, block at least). Is this good or bad? Looks like steel to me. Anyway, my tuners and bridge work very well.


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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:23 am
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lomitus wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:

Ping......Mandarin for "junk".


Arjay


Sorry, but that's just plain out horsefeathers! I can't help but read that one as "unadulterated gear snobbery".

The truth is that Ping brand tuners have been around a LONG time...they do in fact do a very decent job and MANY companies have used them over the years. Are they "as good" as Gotoh or Schaller (remember when Fender used those?)? No, probably not. Does it matter THAT much? No...not one damn bit. Of the 25+ guitars I currently own (recently thinned out the herd a bit due to the move), several of them have Ping tuners (including my Ovation acoustics) and wow...what do ya know...they hold tune just as well as any of my other instruments with higher end tuners. If anything, I have yet to have a Ping tuner actually go bad on me...I have however had a couple of Schallers and even a Kluson wear out.

No offense to anyone, but I have to call B.S. on that one...only an elitist would suggest that Pings are somehow "junk". Generic? Yea...sure. Junk? Hardly.


As far as the MIJ issue, personally I've long been a fan of MIJ instruments. In fact I've owned a couple of the older 80's MIJ's (still have one of them) and they are by far some of the best craftsmanship I've ever seen in commercially available instruments...truly first rate. As to the more recent MIJ's, I've only played a couple of the newer models here and there in stores over the years (all used), however they've all easily been on par with MIM's....very good quality instruments (including the e-tronics) and I wouldn't hesitate to own one, IF the price was right.

That said, on the world market, price can be a tad subjective to say the least. To me, that price is REALLY high...from my understanding, the current MIJ's are the European equivalent of MIM's as sold here in the US and I would tend to price them accordingly based of comparable features and such, although admittedly, it would also depend greatly on the individual instrument itself, how it played/felt/sounded, etc.. On the other hand, I'm also a renowned cheapskate as well...I just don't fork out that kind of cash for something on a whim...as they say, Your Millage May Vary.


Just my own opinions as always.
I have no experience with the MIJ guitars except I've "heard" the quality is great. I have seen and played MIM guitars and am not impressed. If the goal is to buy those on the cheap and replace everything, then go for it. I did my last science project ages ago. If you like it, buy it. In doubt, forget it.


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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:32 pm
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First off, yes the MIJ guitars are quite good and QC is top notch. I own two and both are of excellent quality all around, parts, finsih, and playability are equal to MIA...with one exception and that is pickups, but since tone is totally subjective, we'll leave it at that.

I am replacing my Ping tuners on my MIM 50's Classic Series because they can't stay in tune well with 10's. My MIM 50s Classic finish, frets, even the pickups have nice tones, and the rest of the hardware is quite good and on par with the MIJ guitars. The Pings were ok with the 9's that came on the guitar, but as soon as I went to 10's the tuning problems started. I have been playing and setting up guitars for 40+ years and these are lower end quality wise tuners.

I also think sometimes we have some apples to oranges (chalk and cheese for our British friends) comparisons that happen. The standard series MIM are good, but the parts are not the same quality as the MIM 50's/60's Classic series guitars and I think we need to be specific when we compare guitars here. The Classic Series are top of the line MIM so comparing them to a MIM Standard series is unfair. There is a reason for the price difference for the MIM guitars.

The top of the line MIM are on par with the MIJ but do lack in some of the details (body contours being the most obvious), the top of the line MIJ are pretty close to being as good as some MIA guitars and so on. The differences here if not obvious is labor costs and parts quality. We need to keep that in mind when we discuss comparisons here.

FWIW

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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:58 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
First off, yes the MIJ guitars are quite good and QC is top notch. I own two and both are of excellent quality all around, parts, finsih, and playability are equal to MIA...with one exception and that is pickups, but since tone is totally subjective, we'll leave it at that.

I am replacing my Ping tuners on my MIM 50's Classic Series because they can't stay in tune well with 10's. My MIM 50s Classic finish, frets, even the pickups have nice tones, and the rest of the hardware is quite good and on par with the MIJ guitars. The Pings were ok with the 9's that came on the guitar, but as soon as I went to 10's the tuning problems started. I have been playing and setting up guitars for 40+ years and these are lower end quality wise tuners.

I also think sometimes we have some apples to oranges (chalk and cheese for our British friends) comparisons that happen. The standard series MIM are good, but the parts are not the same quality as the MIM 50's/60's Classic series guitars and I think we need to be specific when we compare guitars here. The Classic Series are top of the line MIM so comparing them to a MIM Standard series is unfair. There is a reason for the price difference for the MIM guitars.

The top of the line MIM are on par with the MIJ but do lack in some of the details (body contours being the most obvious), the top of the line MIJ are pretty close to being as good as some MIA guitars and so on. The differences here if not obvious is labor costs and parts quality. We need to keep that in mind when we discuss comparisons here.

FWIW

T2
Thank you for that clarification. I've only been exposed to the MIM Standards and MIA Standards. My only other close-up with a Fender Strat is my long forgotten 1966. Even though early CBS era, it was top notch. Perhaps it's only my memory, but it seems that everything else back then was such crap. Still loving my 2014 MIA Standard Strat and will never look for another.


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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:02 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
My only other close-up with a Fender Strat is my long forgotten 1966. Even though early CBS era, it was top notch. Perhaps it's only my memory, but it seems that everything else back then was such crap.


This seems to be a non sequitur. Precisely *what* was crap?

I too had a '66 Strat (second owner, bought in 1968) and it was a great guitar -- gray bobbin pickups with wax potting, all steel bridge and hardware, Kluson Deluxe tuners, nitro finish. Nothing "crap" about it. And back in 1966 Fender was building the finest amps in the industry, so much so that those original blackfaces remain the holy grail among tone junkies some fifty years after the fact.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:38 am
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T2Stratman wrote:
I am replacing my Ping tuners on my MIM 50's Classic Series because they can't stay in tune well with 10's....The Pings were ok with the 9's that came on the guitar, but as soon as I went to 10's the tuning problems started. I have been playing and setting up guitars for 40+ years and these are lower end quality wise tuners.


And when you switched to those 10's, you did have the nut re-filed and the setup adjusted for the heavier strings...right? You either took the guitar to a qualified tech or you have the proper set of nut files and the experience to do that yourself...yes?

That you said this tuning issue started after changing string gauge tells me it's NOT the tuners, regardless of brand.

Obviously I don't know the exact situation as I wasn't there, however, I've seen people do this sooooooo many times over the years - a lot of people will just slap a heavier string gauge on the guitar, many because someone told them it "sounds better", but don't address the nut or the rest of the guitar in the process. When they start having tuning issues, dang...wow...they assume it must be the tuning machines (a lot will go to those stupid locking tuners or those gimmicky graphite saddles and such)...and when that doesn't fix the problem and the neck starts to bow a little because of the extra pressure, they eventually assume they must just have a crappy guitar or something. Part, I'm sure, of why less expensive guitars get such a bad rap. A lot of people seem to think that changing string gauge isn't a bit deal, but many don't stop to consider the rest of the guitar or even so much as how they wind the strings on the tuners (it's amazing how many people don't know how to wind a tuner).

One very simple fact of life - a "cheap" guitar can play very well with a good setup, but even a $4000 Custom Shop instrument is going to play like complete crap with a poor setup...and that has NOTHING to do with the quality of the parts.

Myself and others have said it MANY times on this forum...9/10's of tuning problems with a Strat comes down to the setup. If the tuners worked with 9's, they should work just fine with 10's (or 11's or 12's) and that has absolutely NOTHING to do with brand. MANY acoustics use the exact same Ping tuners that many electrics do and a great many of them come brand new with 12 gauge strings, so I have to find it incredibly unlikely that such a problem would be caused by the tuners themselves. In this case more often than not, the vast majority of such problems are caused by the strings pinching in those nut slots. Going from ".009's" to ".010's" is MORE than just a .001 difference...that's only the high E string. By the time you get down to the low E string, you're talking about a difference of .004 to .010...for a full set of strings you can be talking about a cumulative total difference of .014 to .020 and ANYONE who doesn't think that difference will affect tuning stability really has little clue about guitars to begin with, let alone Strats.

BTW...the reverse is true on this as well...I've seen guys who will buy an acoustic with .12's (or heavier), then go to a lighter string, then don't understand why their frets start buzzing and such...they won't adjust the truss rod or change out the nut (lighter strings usually requires the nut to be replaced, because the slots are too deep). I've seen a few bass players make this mistake too. Regardless...

-IF- there is in fact a bad tuner...i.e. you can feel "slop" in the tuning key when you're tuning, by all means, replace it/them. It DOES happen (even with expensive brands). -IF- you have -1- string that consistently out of tune, that too could indicate a bad tuner (tuners seldom go bad as a "lot"...usually -1- tuner goes bad and that's it). However if your desire to replace tuners is based exclusively on tuning issues or some preconceived notion of "brand", I would suggest addressing the actual problem first before forking out cash on new parts.

My opinions as always...just something to think about.


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Post subject: Re: What do you think about this Fender Japan Strat?
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:24 am
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LawFlow wrote:
I have seen and played MIM guitars and am not impressed. If the goal is to buy those on the cheap and replace everything, then go for it. I did my last science project ages ago. If you like it, buy it. In doubt, forget it.



Funny...that's how I feel about MIA Strats...for the outrageous price, I've just NEVER been impressed. The "hand rolled" fretboards have never impressed me, nor does the bi-flex truss rod and I have yet to play a newer American Strat (late 80's and up) that actually sounds like a Strat...the pickups they use in most of those things are just awful to my own ears. Then of course there's those 2 point trem systems...I actually hate those damn things. Sloppy...they just feel too much like a Floyd Rose (which I also hate). I'll take a 6 point trem, MIM or MIJ, ANY day. In fact, even if they were priced exactly the same, I'd take an MIM over an MIA as a base instrument because that's what -I- like.

Of the 8 Strats in my arsenal at the moment, 5 are MIM's of various pedigree...the others are an MIJ, a humble CIC and my home built "International-caster" (partscaster). Of the MANY guitars I've owned over the years, including instruments made in Canada, Japan, Indonesia, Spain, China and even my New Jersey made Kramer, my MIM Strats are singularly my favorite instruments...my '96 MIM Standard has been my #1 since the day my wife bought her for me brand new in '96...and yes, she is rather heavily modified today .

No, admittedly modding your own guitar isn't for everyone. Just like with cars, some folks prefer to work on their own, others seem content to just put gas in them and drive them till they drop, then let others deal with the problem. That said my own belief is that "a guitar" should be as unique as the person playing it. For myself, why should I want some "off the rack" instrument that sounds and plays just like every other bubba out there? I've been playing for well over 3 decades now and I MUCH prefer to tailor my instruments to my own specific needs...my sound and my playing style. Of the 25 guitars I currently own, virtually every one of them has been modified to one extent or another (except my Ibanez Artcore...and that's coming as the feedback at high volumes is starting to drive me nuts! LOL!).

In terms of an MIM, yes, I will certainly change out those crappy zinc trem blocks...I prefer Callaham, but even the GHS steel blocks do a good job. $22 for a GFS block that I can slap on during a string change...takes about 20 minutes...as long as you're smart enough to know which end of a Philip's screwdriver to hang on to, it's hardly a "science project" at all. And yes, I will usually change out my pickups as well...but that's more of a Fender thing than an MIM thing....I really don't care for most of the newer/contemporary Strat pickups out there (or Tele pickups for that matter). For my own sound and my own style of playing, I MUCH prefer Duncan's or EMG's...it's a taste thing, but Fender pickups, MIM, MIJ, MIA or otherwise just don't usually do it for me. Again however, while soldering pickups IS a bit of a skill, A LOT of folks do it (including many MIA owners)...again hardly any kind of so-called science project. To suggest one has to "replace everything" however, is totally absurd...there's just WAY to many of us MIM players around who are in fact quite happy with our instruments to think that even has the slightest grain of truth to it. I can't speak to the brand new MIM's out there today...it's been a while since I picked up a brand new guitar...however in terms of hardware and quality, all of my 90's and early 00's MIM's have all had VERY decent hardware (except the noted trem blocks and pickups)...screws, jackplates, Schaller tuners...all the EXACT same stuff they used on the MIA's. To suggest that EVERYTHING needs to be replaced is incredibly naive at best.

Perhaps the singular difference is that personally, I just don't give a rat's butt where a guitar was made or what others may or may not think about it. When I am considering an instrument, either at a guitar shop or even something off Craigslist, I don't usually look at the "Made in So&So" label...or even what specific series a given guitar may actually be. I sit down and play the guitar...I plug the guitar into an amp that I am familiar with (or bring one of my own) and I pay attention to 1.) How the guitar feels in my hands and 2.) how the guitar sounds (and with a Strat, I -know- I can change that sound easily enough). For myself, even color just isn't THAT big a deal to me...I may first be attracted to a guitar because of aesthetic considerations, but the singular selling point to me is feel. If the guitar doesn't feel right in my own hands, then it just doesn't matter where it was made or how expensive it is, let alone what others may think of it. Unfortunately there's a lot of people out there who will just snear at an inexpensive instrument, particularly imports (and there's a lot of folks who don't even know the difference between the guitar and a setup), however the fact of the matter is that I've played some GREAT Chinese and Japanese made instruments and I've played some really lousy American made instruments....when I'm guitar shopping, I just close my eyes and feel the instrument for what it is - a guitar.

Either way, the simple truth is this - for the difference in cost between an MIM and an MIA, I can take the MIM and tweak it out to sound and play the way -I- want it...and still have PLENTY of bread left over afterward that can go towards pedals, new cables or all those string changes I do, or maybe even in a new amp fund or gee...even a night out on the town (or two) with the Mrs.. I'd still have to make those same adjustments to an MIA...so WHY spend the extra money for it? Sorry, but it's NOT about any sense of a "science project", it's about buying, tweaking or even building a guitar that is uniquely suited to the unique individual playing it.

Sorry, but yes - I will stick with modding my MIM's. That way I get the guitar -I- want and not the exact same guitar that Bob and Joe and Pork Chop and everyone else plays.


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