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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:22 am
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John Sims wrote:
The point you were making that Fender should make their vintage trems like those of another manufacturer doesn't hold water.

They already have a solution for the inherent issues of the vintage trem in the two post. IMHO a reproduction guitar should be as accurate as possible to the original, this including any design flaws. If I was to spend big money on a reproduction I would want the parts to be as close to indistinguishable from the original as can be, subject to budget and modern manufacturing controls.

I would anticipate this would be the standpoint of most buying a reproduction and, as such, they would be more upset about an alternate component being employed over the authentic performance idiosyncrasies of the original.

If you want a Hot Rod don't buy a museum restoration and expect it to perform like a modern car.

On the plus side, being a Strat, you can take of the authentic trem (or as near as Fender can get within budget) put it in a box and then fit what ever after market non OEM part you want and it won't devalue the guitar should you ultimately decide to sell it.


I'm following you on the "vintage reproduction", and somewhat agree. But this is an EJ model. It is based on a '57 Strat, but it's not a repro. Custom wound pickups, 12" radius, different neck profile, no trem cover, etc...stuff you won't find on a vintage reproduction.

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:53 am
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rjake wrote:
.... this is an EJ model. It is based on a '57 Strat, but it's not a repro. Custom wound pickups, 12" radius, different neck profile, no trem cover, etc...stuff you won't find on a vintage reproduction.


Does EJ use the SMac bridge you prescribe or have Fender accurately (subject to budget constraints) reproduced the specification of the bridge on the Stratocaster they are copying? If the former is the case then you have reason to complain. If they have done everything they can to reproduce Eric's guitar, including the bridge, then the guitar is everything it says on the tin (or indeed the head stock).

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:42 am
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I have no problem with the trem on my 57 Hotrod. It's the exact same trem. I dive bomb and pull up harmonic squeals on it. Stays in tune a treat. No winds round the tuners. The most I need is the opposite movement after I've used it. If I've pulled up, I tap it down, lightly. If I've dived, I tap it up gently. Always returns to zero.

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:33 am
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nikininja wrote:
I have no problem with the trem on my 57 Hotrod. It's the exact same trem. I dive bomb and pull up harmonic squeals on it. Stays in tune a treat. No winds round the tuners. The most I need is the opposite movement after I've used it. If I've pulled up, I tap it down, lightly. If I've dived, I tap it up gently. Always returns to zero.


How do you have the trem set up? Per Carl V?

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:32 am
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Yes mate, I've been using that method for about 10 years now. I even set Floyds up like it. In how to use tension to get that 11th chord to stay pretty accurate on a half step drop.
Even my blocked guitars have the trems set like that. In case I want to remove the block.
FWIW I think the most crucial bit of info in that video is to never tune down. Pull the strings if you have to lower the tuning. If that doesn't work, take the string right down to where it's almost off. As near no tension as you can get it. Then wind the string back on.
Also, while I wind strings onto any guitar. I am constantly pulling the string with my right hand. Keeping a load of pressure on the string. Just to help it not have any slack spots around the peg head and stretch in a tad faster, maybe.

Do you know what I think may be worth looking at. And it can be an awkward job. The state of the screws holding the trem in place. If their surfaces are roughed up, it could hold the trem off the zero point. That is the way 2 point trems lose their stability. The vintage synch trem doesn't act on quite the same knife edge principle. But it's close.
When you next come to restring, it could be worth popping the screws out one at a time and checking how worn they are along the contact point. When you've got the strings off the guitar.
Furthermore. When putting the screws back in. I have the trem in place. Springs not attached. So the bridgeplate is just resting against the guitar body. Tighten the screw until it just kisses the top of the bridgeplate, then back it off 1/8th to 1/4 of a turn. Do that for all six screws.
The knife edge of the trem is underneath, not on the screws. But wear happens. particularly with those guitars we favour.

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:17 am
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nikininja wrote:
Yes mate, I've been using that method for about 10 years now. I even set Floyds up like it. In how to use tension to get that 11th chord to stay pretty accurate on a half step drop.
Even my blocked guitars have the trems set like that. In case I want to remove the block.
FWIW I think the most crucial bit of info in that video is to never tune down. Pull the strings if you have to lower the tuning. If that doesn't work, take the string right down to where it's almost off. As near no tension as you can get it. Then wind the string back on.
Also, while I wind strings onto any guitar. I am constantly pulling the string with my right hand. Keeping a load of pressure on the string. Just to help it not have any slack spots around the peg head and stretch in a tad faster, maybe.

Do you know what I think may be worth looking at. And it can be an awkward job. The state of the screws holding the trem in place. If their surfaces are roughed up, it could hold the trem off the zero point. That is the way 2 point trems lose their stability. The vintage synch trem doesn't act on quite the same knife edge principle. But it's close.
When you next come to restring, it could be worth popping the screws out one at a time and checking how worn they are along the contact point. When you've got the strings off the guitar.
Furthermore. When putting the screws back in. I have the trem in place. Springs not attached. So the bridgeplate is just resting against the guitar body. Tighten the screw until it just kisses the top of the bridgeplate, then back it off 1/8th to 1/4 of a turn. Do that for all six screws.
The knife edge of the trem is underneath, not on the screws. But wear happens. particularly with those guitars we favour.


That's good info.
The tremolo was decked when I purchased it. I've checked the screws and like everything else on this guitar, there is no wear. This is a hardly used 2015 complete with case candy, verified by the neck and body stamps. The laquer is a bit sticky, so I'm working through that. I'm going to put another top plate on the tremolo, and see if that makes it a bit more stable. Everything else is perfect.

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:50 am
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Whatever you have to do to get it perfect for you mate.

Stewmac has some good stuff. Dunno about the quality of his aftermarket parts. And They'd tell you the sky is green to get a sale. But if it works, it works. Their tools are quality.

The EJ is an amazing instrument. Been considering some EJ pickups for my hotrod. Getting a bit tired of the SCN's.

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:32 am
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nikininja wrote:
Getting a bit tired of the SCN's.


+1

I've long considered swapping mine as well. DiMarzio's Virtual Vintage Noiseless sound so much more authentic......

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:55 pm
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I'm really not bothered about the noise thing.
My band are a right noisy, distorted fast crowd. When I play at home, it's 95% clean strat playing. No mucking about, just the Fenderesque clean sounds on my mesa. I use a guitar that's wired traditionally, no tone control on the bridge and positions 2&4 aren't humbucking either. The guitar with SCN's I use for gain and inept Hendrix impressions.
I've really grown to love that gentle sound. If I could get it sounding like Nokie makes that 55 sound, I'd think I'd landed. I don't even notice the noise. Despite playing in my kitchen. With fridge, freezer, dishwasher all the nonsense.

I'd like to try the virtual vintage. But I really don't want to shell out for them without trying first. Vintage Noiseless taught me to never do that ever again.
SCN's do sound great driven hard. The neck position sounds incendiary. They're just too flat an eq for bare bones clean stuff. Thought they're great for funky rhythms.

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:56 pm
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And I don't shield guitars either
:lol:

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:44 am
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The culprits...

Image
Image
Image

The top photo is the Fender top plate.
The next one is the "G". It doesn't sound as good as the Fender, but it functions better because of the refined shape of the front edge bevel. Everything but the top plate is still Fender.

The nut photo is something I found later. I tweaked the slots and shape, and discovered lacquer all the way up the sides of the nut. It was making the slots sticky. I tried to sand a little off the front, we'll see if it works. New nut time if it doesn't.

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:25 am
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The G bridge plate is unambiguously a better-machined part. I've seen Ginsu steak knives that didn't have such a precise edge as with that fulcrum point.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:33 pm
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isn't that fulcrum point shifted forwards a touch?

On the nut slot/Lacquer.
I'd be looking at maybe a bit of wet and dry paper run through the slots. Though I doubt it'll work on the treble strings.
I don't know your skill/understanding level of nut slots so I hasten to advise this.
Get some welding tip cleaners and run them lightly through the slots.
Pressure will cause you to ruin the nut, quite easily. You just want to take the lacquer off, not cut into the corian.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/welding-tip-cleaner

I like them for smoothing out slots. Please if you do it, be gentle

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:50 pm
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nikininja wrote:
isn't that fulcrum point shifted forwards a touch?

On the nut slot/Lacquer.
I'd be looking at maybe a bit of wet and dry paper run through the slots. Though I doubt it'll work on the treble strings.
I don't know your skill/understanding level of nut slots so I hasten to advise this.
Get some welding tip cleaners and run them lightly through the slots.
Pressure will cause you to ruin the nut, quite easily. You just want to take the lacquer off, not cut into the corian.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/welding-tip-cleaner

I like them for smoothing out slots. Please if you do it, be gentle


I think the fulcrum point is the same, just the bevel is different.

I've cleaned the nut slots out already and hit the nut with 600&1000 grit sandpaper. The stickiness comes back. The slots are fine. I think it's picking up the lacquer from the front edge of the string slot. I use the trem a lot, so the string is sliding back and forth.

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Post subject: Re: EJ Strat addition plus thoughts...
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:56 pm
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Well here's a tip.
get some feeler gauges. Take the thinnest feeler. Put it on the fretboard next to the nut. Then use an emery board to clean the front edge of the nut.

I use my trem loads too. I mean, loads. And not just little wobbles, I'm aggressive with it.
Looking on my CS and Hotrod Strats. Both have been lacquered after the nut and frets were put in. The CS is rosewood. Which obviously hasn't been sprayed. The sides of the nut are stained by the clearcoat though. On the Hotrod is maple, the sides are stained too. I presume the tops of the frets were also. However that came off with play. The sides of the frets are clearly sealed by clearcoat.
It's a bad show if they've left a load of lacquer up the front edge of the nut.
I still can't see how it would drag into the slots though. To do so would mean that your strings are cutting into the corian

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