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Post subject: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:10 pm
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I read a post recently in which the author oberserved that Fender produces signature model guitars with little input from the artists and with marketing being the primary goal.

I question this. After reading several books and articles about Fender signature instruments, and the close work the Fender Custom Shop does with arts, I'm not seeing what the author is talking about.

I wonder what signature models this person is thinking of. Sadly, I can't locate the posting (as it was comment within a thread), so I have no way of asking the author how he or she came to this conclusion.

Granted, virtually all the signature models are not copies of the artists' original instrument, but they are designs the arts come up with. Also, many of these working relationships are done over months, miles and telephone calls. The Clapton, Gilmour and Beck Strats instantly come to mind.

I will say that there are plenty of Signature guitars out there that are basically stock instruments. The magic in these instruments come from artist who played them. Why there needed to be an
an Ike Turner or Buddy Holly Strats I'll never figure.

Here is a list of a few art designed or influenced instruments
off the top of my head:
Andy Summers Tele
EC Strat
David Gilmour Strat
John 5 Tele
Bonnie Raitte Strat
Buddy Guy Strat
Jeff Beck Strat

There are more, but I'd have to go online to remember them all.

Let me know your thoughts on this.


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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 5:22 pm
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I think the correct answer might be "yes and no" - I think that the Artist signature models are designed with a lot of input from the artist themselves (or at least their guitar tech has major input with the artist having final approval). Other signature models were recreations of customized guitars that the artist was already using.

However, the decision for the guitar model to move beyond just a "custom guitar built for XXXX" to a production model that the average consumer can purchase is a marketing decision. We've also seen that come into play with things like the Billy Corgan, Mark Knopfler, and John Mayer signatures - they are produced for a while, but when the economics no longer work as production models the arrangement is terminated.


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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 12:51 am
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John C wrote:
...However, the decision for the guitar model to move beyond just a "custom guitar built for XXXX" to a production model that the average consumer can purchase is a marketing decision...


I am sure this is the case. If they sell like hot cakes Fender will keep producing them. If they were considering a limited run then they would have announced them as such and numbered them accordingly. Limited runs can encourage sales but, one assumes, Fenders intention is to sell more than a limited run would relate to...5000 could hardly be deemed limited.

Sig models often have some interesting features or combination of parts which have tempted me to buy despite possibly little interest in the artist. If anything sometimes they have prompted me to find out more about the person. Similarly I have looked at some signature guitars and thought "What would be the point of buying that?" even though I may have a strong disposition towards the artist.

While there wasn't an arrangement (as far as I'm aware) perhaps light blue (I don't know the name) will see a strong resurgence?

Image

A little CG render I felt prompted to produce.

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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:51 am
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John C wrote:
I We've also seen that come into play with things like the Billy Corgan, Mark Knopfler, and John Mayer signatures - they are produced for a while, but when the economics no longer work as production models the arrangement is terminated.


I agree that the market does dictate whether or not a guitar sticks around. I was under the understanding that the John Mayer Strat stop being produced because John left the table. Also Billy is endorsing another guitar company.


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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:59 am
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Quote:
While there wasn't an arrangement (as far as I'm aware) perhaps light blue (I don't know the name) will see a strong resurgence?


I think the name you're looking for is Sonic Blue. It's one of those clasic Fender colors that comes and goes over time. I'm a big fan of the sonic blue with a rosewood finger board.

The only debate I'm aware of concerning this color is the difference with Daphne Blue (a little darker and "bluer" (is that a term?). Several years ago, when Fender came out with the "Tornado," they held a poll to choose one of the colors. They were colors like: orange, yellow, and lavender. I think orange won. This model didn't last very long.


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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:11 am
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paris wrote:
Quote:
While there wasn't an arrangement (as far as I'm aware) perhaps light blue (I don't know the name) will see a strong resurgence?


I think the name you're looking for is Sonic Blue. It's one of those clasic Fender colors that comes and goes over time...


The blue Prince guitar would certainly make an interesting version as (unlike my render) it would seem to be H/S with two knobs Floyd Rose Trem and locking or roller nut. Very alternative Strat. Then there was a more conventional (at least in configuration) all gold Strat and a vintage red Strat.

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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 7:36 am
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paris wrote:
John C wrote:
I We've also seen that come into play with things like the Billy Corgan, Mark Knopfler, and John Mayer signatures - they are produced for a while, but when the economics no longer work as production models the arrangement is terminated.


I agree that the market does dictate whether or not a guitar sticks around. I was under the understanding that the John Mayer Strat stop being produced because John left the table. Also Billy is endorsing another guitar company.


I suppose the question is what caused these endorsers to leave Fender? The Billy Corgan Strat ended several years ago - 2011 if I'm remembering correctly - so there was quite a lag before he hooked up with Reverend (probably some time in 2015 since they were able to introduce the model in January). With John Mayer the deal ended last year - I suspect they just couldn't come to terms to keep the model in production, so John left and is doing a very high-end (Private Stock) PRS guitar these days - although that particular guitar seems to have been driven by his work with the former Grateful Dead bandmembers to get to some Jerry Garcia tones.


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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:27 pm
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paris wrote:
The magic in these instruments come from artist who played them.


The "magic" for Fender lies in the fact that many customers who purchase these instruments are fashionistas rather than musicians and they simply cannot live without owning a guitar that features a decal representation of some luminary's signature affixed to the headstock. They'll buy anything and everything that's offered merely as wall accents for their home or office but the instrument itself will never actually be played simply because they don't know to play it.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:46 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
paris wrote:
The magic in these instruments come from artist who played them.


The "magic" for Fender lies in the fact that many customers who purchase these instruments are fashionistas rather than musicians and they simply cannot live without owning a guitar that features a decal representation of some luminary's signature affixed to the headstock. They'll buy anything and everything that's offered merely as wall accents for their home or office but the instrument itself will never actually be played simply because they don't know to play it.

Arjay


No fashionista here.
Took my time and planned carefully when I was shopping for my first new real Strat .
The Strat I ended up purchasing had everything that I wanted as features, pickups, fretboard, neck profile tuners etc., etc. AND as an added bonus, my favorite Fender color.
My Strat is Surf Green and it's a JB artist model.
Guess what, Jeffrey Beck is way down on my list of favorite guitar players.
Fact. I was tempted to erase his initials.
Then I didn't notice it anymore.

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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:54 pm
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I owned a Muddy Waters Tele and loved it.


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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 2:40 am
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Zippydog wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
paris wrote:
The magic in these instruments come from artist who played them.


The "magic" for Fender lies in the fact that many customers who purchase these instruments are fashionistas rather than musicians and they simply cannot live without owning a guitar that features a decal representation of some luminary's signature affixed to the headstock. They'll buy anything and everything that's offered merely as wall accents for their home or office but the instrument itself will never actually be played simply because they don't know to play it.

Arjay


No fashionista here.
Took my time and planned carefully when I was shopping for my first new real Strat .
The Strat I ended up purchasing had everything that I wanted as features, pickups, fretboard, neck profile tuners etc., etc. AND as an added bonus, my favorite Fender color.
My Strat is Surf Green and it's a JB artist model.
Guess what, Jeffrey Beck is way down on my list of favorite guitar players.
Fact. I was tempted to erase his initials.
Then I didn't notice it anymore.


Arjay - do people really buy expensive guitars and can't play them? It's not like they're going to appreciate, is it? Even a pre-CBS Strat is a gamble over the short term. Yes, I think a Strat is great art, but financially it's not going to compare to a Renoir or something, is it?!

Zippydog - yes, I agree a surf green JB Strat loks like virtual perfection! Only the p/ups MIGHT not suit me (I haven't played one), plus - as you say - that signature! Got any pics..?!
Having said that, my surf green Special (now with medium jumbos) does everything I want too - I play it more than my CS!

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 3:05 am
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Peter S wrote:
Arjay - do people really buy expensive guitars and can't play them? It's not like they're going to appreciate, is it? Even a pre-CBS Strat is a gamble over the short term. Yes, I think a Strat is great art, but financially it's not going to compare to a Renoir or something, is it?!


I know of collectors who buy every signature guitar that Fender offers strictly for the bragging rights or potential financial speculation. One in particular on the west coast buys consecutively serial-numbered matching pairs but unlike the majority, at least he knows all his barre chords and can play "Louie Louie" in three different keys.

As for any possible windfall profit, I think you're right -- most people with money to burn would be far better off with the Renoir, Matisse, or Gauguin OR precious metals (my investment of choice). The case could rightfully be made for true vintage guitars but we've seen that market bottom out several times in the recent past.

My digressions aside, I'm happy that Fender offers these artist signature guitars and I hope they sell every one they make. But I seldom see them in the hands of working stiffs plying their trade at some hole in the wall, six-stool saloon or even the classier cabaret clubs with a ten-dollar cover and a three-drink minimum.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:51 am
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Collecting can be an addiction and it is something blokes are more prone to. Fender isn't shy about tapping into that weakness and who can blame them?

For those of us purely interested in playing I think the signature handle is a useful reference relative to the features. An EC signature edition is much more memorable than a 16240 (or what ever) if you want a triangular neck, N3 PUPs and a mid boost circuit. I'm not really aware of Robert Cray as an artist but keep sitting on my hands to stop me buying a Robert Cray signature model (or parts thereof) because I love hardtail Strats.

I do agree that the whole "having the signature on the guitar" is a little OTT for me though and I would be more than happy if they didn't bother. It is all a bit too "Designer Lable" for me. I'm not averse to paying for a named product but only if that product is physically better than a less well known brand.

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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 6:29 am
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I own a Clapton Strat and love it's unique qualities. It's green, 16 yrs old and just a great guitar. I recently had it regretted after about 2 or 3 years living in a case.


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Post subject: Re: Artist input in Signature Strats (and other instruments)
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:52 am
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I have extremely mixed feelings about signature model guitars.

I think some of them are beautiful and have some unique features that make the instrument "special" and worthy of a second look.
The Bonnie Raitt Stratocaster falls into this category--the slightly smaller neck, bigger headstock, etc., make for an interesting instrument, especially for a player with smaller hands.

And then some of them are (as mentioned earlier) mere marketing tools with a passing resemblance to an iconic instrument played by a famous musician...

...but it can get really stupid, too. People may or may not remember, but Gibson put out some Jonas Brothers signature model guitars, and even a guitar model specifically named for That Bastion of Music, Kiefer Sutherland (!?!?) [yes, I know he is a noted collector and can play guitar pretty well, but so can my buddy Doug, and he doesn't have a signature model guitar]. Squier put out a guitar with April Lavigne's name on it, and a bass for Pete Wentz.
The Gretsch Irish Falcon is beautiful, but Bono deserves a signature model guitar only slightly more than Ms. Lavigne.

And Fender has, in either normal production, limited runs or in the Custom Shop, made approximately 479 different Strat models for John Mayer. (Note: that number may be a slight exaggeration).

If the above players have been graced with signature models, why hasn't Doyle Bramhall II's red Strat been immortalized?
(it would be unique-looking, especially with the left-handed neck).
In the same vein, where's the Tab Benoit Thinline Telecaster?
Or a Charlie Sexton Strat with Lipstick pickups? (similar to the one made by Charley's guitar shop)
Or a Sonny Landreth Strat with a Telecaster bridge?

I would be reluctant to buy or own many/most of the signature models out there, not because they aren't good instruments, but because I don't really want to associate myself with a specific player that strongly...riffing on what someone mentioned above, if I see a guy whip out a polka-dot Buddy Guy Strat, the dude better be able to play like Buddy Guy -or- better bring something REALLY unique to the table when he plays.

I love the looks and feel of the SRV Strat (especially that neck), but between the etched pickguard (changeable), the left-handed tremolo (not changeable), and his signature on the front of the headstock (not easily changeable without destroying the value of the instrument), it's pretty evident that you're playing an SRV signature model Stratocaster, and that brings a certain expectation to your playing (just like the Buddy Guy example listed above).

Having said that, if I were to buy another Stratocaster, I would strongly consider a Jimmie Vaughan model...not just because I like him (which I do, immensely), but because it's a dang-good-sounding, well-made, vintage-style guitar that feels good in my hands and isn't outrageously expensive...and if I change the pickguard to tortoiseshell or mother-of-pearl, nobody would know it's a JV model until they look at the back of the headstock.

I would also consider buying a Muddy Waters Tribute Telecaster--not just because I love Muddy (which I do, immensely), but because it's a good-looking vintage-style Telecaster with a rosewood fretboard, a nice neck and a candy-apple-red paint job...and if I changed the pickguard and the knobs (which I would probably do), nobody would know it's a tribute model.

I have customized or modified my Stratocaster and both of my Telecasters enough that they are "my" instruments...I jokingly call them my signature models, because between the visuals/aesthetics, the combination of uniquely-styled or uniquely-branded pickups or pickup configurations, the changes to switching options as well as my specific setup, I'm very, very certain I'm not going to find another instrument exactly like mine in another person's hands anywhere on the planet...

...and to me, that's ten times cooler than any signature model.

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