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Post subject: Classic player Strats
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 5:05 pm
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I've been on a long hiatus in regards to playing, 4-5 years and haven't really gone n forums even longer. So if this is a well tread subject my apologies.

Anyway I've built my gear up again ( the girlfriend new job was the shot in the arm when she gave me a couple really nice guitars and a great amp that never would have bought but has turned out to be Mr all time favorite. I digress).
I built aStrat because what I really like were the Eric Johnson rosewood models, but there were a few things I didn't and I decided I could build what I wanted; Warmoth vintage/modern, one piece light weight ash, 1/4 sawn maple Wolfgang profile and dark Indian rosewood board. My original plan was to put in a KCG chromed brass plate/ high mass brass block and spring claw with Callaham sales, Dimarzo Pro 54/area 67/ Heavy Blues 2(flat poles on HB2). Now I've decided to go more traditional, regular Callaham tremolo, 60's type pickups, but probably use the pro 54@the bridge. I still want to builda harder performing Start, but don't feel like spending the cash on MIA that I'm just going to gut anyway.
I've owned 2 MIM's that I can remember. A standard that I got rid of in less than two weeks, and a classic FSR they did. It had a 50's contoured rosewood finish with a 60's neck. I had that for sevdifferent s. It wasn't great, the body was heavy, the vintage frets and 7 1/4 radius wasn't ideal for my playing, but it was built well.

The 50's and 60's classic players look pretty good. They even use a solid steel block which surprised me (though it'll be replaced with the KGC) and they have flatter fretboards with the typical modern sized frets. I see has the 2 point tremolo, I haven't one of those since an American Deluxe in 08, but I set my tremolo to 1/8" float anyway.

I believe the radius' are different, the maple either 9.5 or 10" (I've seen it different, and the 60's is 12. I tend to prefer the sound of rosewood, but I'm not sure if I should get anther one, especially the pickup and tremolo block combination is going to favor punchier tone, so maybe the maple.

Reading this it appears in really thinking out loud, but typing it, I do have questions for those with existence or own one.

All around, how well is it made? Resonance, weight? Most all, finish thickness. The MIM I had before, if I had one main complaint it was good thick that polyester finish was applied. The steel and brass blocks I tried on them helped, but no matter what pickups I put in, it always left me feeling that it actually sounded like it was wrapped in plastic.

Do these have custom wiring? I thought I read they have the 7 selection, but they may have confused it with the deluxe player.
I hear the pickup's are pretty good. If I get a 60's I just may swap the neck/middle onto the parts caster ( getting a thin nitro finish put on now at a furniture refinished, getting it next week apparently.

My apologies, I know this is a long post, probably riddled with typos, but I did it on my phone as I walked.

Any help appreciated


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Post subject: Re: Classic player Strats
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:17 am
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windwalker9649 wrote:
Reading this it appears in really thinking out loud

Oh yeah... :wink:

I don't know if my reply is helpful at all, but:

Here's the wiring diagrams (they differ quite a bit from each other, maybe because of the Galuszka factor):
Classic Player 50s
Classic Player 60s

On the poly finish, I don't share your view of its dampening effects (good enough for Jimi etc.), but that is something to think through thoroughly - it may be you will never be satisfied if you know you're playing poly.

And one thought: if you're already modding the guitar, before you even buy & play it, why not just build your dream guitar? Plenty of donors on ebay & such, plus lots of licenced part manufacturers.


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Post subject: Re: Classic player Strats
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 4:23 pm
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jmattis wrote:
And one thought: if you're already modding the guitar, before you even buy & play it, why not just build your dream guitar? Plenty of donors on ebay & such, plus lots of licenced part manufacturers.


+1

If all you're interested in is a porterhouse and a couple of T-bones, why buy an entire cow?

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Classic player Strats
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:59 pm
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I just finished with a build, well almost. Still waiting for it to come back from getting the finish done (urethane you can knock out quickly, nitro takes weeks since you have to wait for one coat to cure before you can apply the second).
As for poly being used by Jimi, I venture to guess that they didn't apply it with the thickness s they do now. I worked in a guitar shop for q few years mostly doing setups and regrets. The owner used to day that all the time "it was good enough for Hendrix," my opinion was it didn't work well for Hendrix and if he had access to locking tremolos and such, he'd have used it.. It was always tuning stability devices; locking nuts (I don't like them myself), locking tuners, self lubricating nuts and the like. My answer was always "pull up some concert footage of him, or SRV, they were constantly going out of tune."
Anyway, I've had Fenders with urethane finishes (an American Deluxe), the are VERY different from the polyester finish on MIMs. The first day I had it I accidentally bumped something into it and it left a small dent (very small). On the mim polyester, I could hit it with a ball peen hammer and it wouldn't do anything.
I'm not quite as worried about the finish on this one. I'm going to use higher output pickups and play it mostly with med gain, so it won't come into play as much. For cleaner things, I'll use the one I built.
Building a whole second one is also not something I want to lay the cash out for, if you're building a really nice Strat, you're not going to save money building it. Getting the finish done alone is a few hundred. I've built at least a dozen vStrats and Teles for people who ordered them prefinished from Warmoth, and that's something I definitely don't want. They coat everything with so much finish, I don't think once I was able to put it together without having to sand off finish to make the neck fit into the pocket..

I'm well aware of what I'm getting for MIM prices, but there is a swing in quality. The classic ones always seem better made than the standards, the wood seems to be better lighter (most of the time). The hardware will go right away. It's always the first to go. The metal they use for the tremolo, the zinc blocks they use: I find the blocks are like sponges for sound I realized the first time I swapped one for a Callaham that they machine out of solid cold rolled steel. I don't find the tremolo to be very stable unless you're decking it (I keep mine at a 1/8" float, not a huge float, when I pull up it raises a half step.
I just haven't really had any experience with the Player stats, just the regular classic ones.


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Post subject: Re: Classic player Strats
Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 1:22 am
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Let's not plunge too deep into the poly/PU/nitro universe, they all have their up- and downsides. But based on your reply, I repeat: think hard if you will ever be happy with a poly guitar.
For an additional 100$, Fender has the Classic Series & Road Worn lacquer versions, but those come with the 7.25" radius which you also don't like. Adding a Fender 9.5" neck, 199$...

Your trouble is you want a custom shop level guitar for a mexi price - not easy, unless you DIY.
And your opinions seem to be made already, so I won't try to convince you otherwise on things like 'thinner poly on Jimi era'; 'lighter better', 'MIM quality issues'; 'zinc trem unstability' - all very debatable (inflammable?) subjects. :mrgreen:
But here's an idea, seriously: hunt for a second hand Highway One, it's got most of your requirements factory stock.

windwalker9649 wrote:
setups and regrets
I know that's a typo, but it sort of summarizes the whole guitar maintenance mayhem... :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Classic player Strats
Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 8:47 am
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:29 pm
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Location: Lee, MA
jmattis wrote:
Let's not plunge too deep into the poly/PU/nitro universe, they all have their up- and downsides. But based on your reply, I repeat: think hard if you will ever be happy with a poly guitar.
For an additional 100$, Fender has the Classic Series & Road Worn lacquer versions, but those come with the 7.25" radius which you also don't like. Adding a Fender 9.5" neck, 199$...

Your trouble is you want a custom shop level guitar for a mexi price - not easy, unless you DIY.
And your opinions seem to be made already, so I won't try to convince you otherwise on things like 'thinner poly on Jimi era'; 'lighter better', 'MIM quality issues'; 'zinc trem unstability' - all very debatable (inflammable?) subjects. :mrgreen:
But here's an idea, seriously: hunt for a second hand Highway One, it's got most of your requirements factory stock.

windwalker9649 wrote:
setups and regrets
I know that's a typo, but it sort of summarizes the whole guitar maintenance mayhem... :lol:


Refrets. As for the blocks, if you A/B them, there's no debate. It's a major difference. Not looking for a custom shop, like I said I've built several already because i cannot for the life of me justify a couple thousand dollars for a slab body with a bolt on neck.
As for MIMs, looking at them and playing them for a little while may not yield a huge difference, but once you start getting into them, that's where the differences are. I've replaced 2 tremolos for two different people and their guitars are the ones that pop into my mind. Both of them, upon removing the tremolo, had the screw holes going into the body at an angle, instead of straight in. I had to fill them in then sand them down before installing the new one. The Road Worn were a good idea, but they did something with the string spacing (on the first couple releases on them, where the E strings were so far to the edge on the fretboard, they would roll off the fret.
I just want to know if the classic players are any good. The plugged in tone I could care less about, since everything will get replaced.

I see over and over on many posts when someone talks about putting upgrades into mid level guitars, and many will say "why don't you just post for higher model?" The reasons are always money. The difference between upgrading (yes, upgrading, something's aren't "different", they're better) can be over $1000.
Look at the David Gilmore Strat. How fender justifies a $4000 copy of a$300 guitar I will never get, because that's what it is. A copy of an early 70's(widely thought of as some of the worst ones Fender put out). Granted the CS Gilmore is a much better made version, but again; its a slab alder body with a bolt on neck.

I don't mind urethane, but I can't stand the polyester. It's not a huge tonal difference, but there is a different, especially when you have the trem pulled against the body. On paper, finish and wood shouldn't make a difference all that much. Very little of the string is in contact with the body, the pickup's float in the cavity, anchored only by the plastic pic guard. While most of the primary tone comes from the block, I do know there's a difference. At higher gain it's not as noticeable, which is why I'm willing to do it with this one.

I just want to hear from someone who actually has one and is playing it.


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Post subject: Re: Classic player Strats
Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 1:30 pm
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windwalker9649 wrote:
I just want to know if the classic players are any good. The plugged in tone I could care less about, since everything will get replaced.

I see over and over on many posts when someone talks about putting upgrades into mid level guitars, and many will say "why don't you just post for higher model?" The reasons are always money. The difference between upgrading (yes, upgrading, something's aren't "different", they're better) can be over $1000.
Look at the David Gilmore Strat. How fender justifies a $4000 copy of a$300 guitar I will never get, because that's what it is. A copy of an early 70's(widely thought of as some of the worst ones Fender put out). Granted the CS Gilmore is a much better made version, but again; its a slab alder body with a bolt on neck.



Umm early 70s strats are not selling for 300. A 4 bolt 1970 is worth several thousand dollars and 1971-1973 3 bolts are easily fetching 2-3500. Most of the early 70s guitars are actually nice players, I currently own a 72 and its a killer guitar. Also there was nothing wrong with the spacing on road worns they just have vintage correct wide spacing same as the 1954-1980s strats.


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