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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:47 am
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Well the Fujigen factory made both Fender and Tokai (and other company) necks and bodies. On the same machines. When Fender first got a Japanese production up and running.
What, you didn't think they set up a whole other factory out there did you? They didn't even do that when they took Ensenada over from Squier. Corona was already carving the bodies and necks. So they just used the hardware that was knocking around, already made for Squier guitars. It simply wasn't cost effective to ship it to Korea to pay to have a portion of it shipped back the the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FujiGen

Nice little factory tour for you. Absolute sheer quality and shows the instruments they build for many manufacturers. The Yamano Gakki company also made the Orville guitars. You can see why in this vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osLKRtaphtY


If you think that being able to bolt a neck onto a body and wire a scratchplate means your guitar can legitimately brandish a company name. Then something is wrong. There is a hell of a lot of skill in how these guitars, even modular guitars like Fender. Are put together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osLKRtaphtY

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:17 am
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I know the history of Fender & Japanese companies, that's why the "of today" (which you missed or ignored) in my question. Anyway, your imaginative theories of what vile beguilements might be going on inside a Japanese factory making OEM+other guitars has very little to do with these counterfeit guitars of the topic. At the very least, even if you'd be 100% right with those suspicions, it doesn't make counterfeiting elsewhere any more legally or morally acceptable.

On a side remark, the beginner of the topic (mhowell) mentions a YouTube video about unpacking a MIC Haggard Tuff Dog Tele. If this $hit vid (below) is that video, I disagree with the "through youtube it appeared to be a very accurate copy" statement - just one glimpse of the headstock @2min< tells it's not a US Fender.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBZnZYejCI


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:59 pm
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jmattis wrote:
I know the history of Fender & Japanese companies, that's why the "of today" (which you missed or ignored) in my question. Anyway, your imaginative theories of what vile beguilements might be going on inside a Japanese factory making OEM+other guitars has very little to do with these counterfeit guitars of the topic. At the very least, even if you'd be 100% right with those suspicions, it doesn't make counterfeiting elsewhere any more legally or morally acceptable.

On a side remark, the beginner of the topic (mhowell) mentions a YouTube video about unpacking a MIC Haggard Tuff Dog Tele. If this $hit vid (below) is that video, I disagree with the "through youtube it appeared to be a very accurate copy" statement - just one glimpse of the headstock @2min< tells it's not a US Fender.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBZnZYejCI


That is the video.

What did you glimpse in the headstock that gave it away? It's on screen for just few seconds, is very much blurred, and if I pause the video it is way out of focus.

Looked up some pics of genuine tuff dogs and I do not readily see much difference.

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:14 am
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Truss rod opening &. the neck/headstock volute in the back.

mhowell wrote:
I do not readily see much difference.
I really don't know what to say to this.


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:24 am
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jmattis wrote:
Truss rod opening &. the neck/headstock volute in the back.

mhowell wrote:
I do not readily see much difference.
I really don't know what to say to this.


Clearly you don't know what to say. I don't see anything about the truss rod opening or the volute that clearly indicates that the guitar is fake.

I'm not challenging you. I just don't know what it is you're seeing. Don't be a douche. Just explain what it is.

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:10 am
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You're promoting counterfeit guitars on Fender forums and calling me a douche..? :roll:

mhowell wrote:
What did you glimpse in the headstock that gave it away?
jmattis wrote:
Truss rod opening &. the neck/headstock volute in the back.
Asked and answered, IMO.
As far as the further learning goes, the internet is full of pics from real & fake Tuff Dogs, do your homework. I already gave you two points to start with.


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:00 am
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jmattis wrote:
You're promoting counterfeit guitars on Fender forums and calling me a douche..? :roll:

mhowell wrote:
What did you glimpse in the headstock that gave it away?
jmattis wrote:
Truss rod opening &. the neck/headstock volute in the back.
Asked and answered, IMO.
As far as the further learning goes, the internet is full of pics from real & fake Tuff Dogs, do your homework. I already gave you two points to start with.


I called you a douche because you posted negative implications regarding my intelligence. If that was not your intent with "I really don't know what to say to this" comment then what did you mean?

I'm not promoting counterfeit guitars at all. You linked to the video, not me. You don't get to just make stuff up.

I have done my homework. Other fakes I've seen online do not look like the one in the video. They do not have the Fender label nor the dog inlay. Besides that, the comment that you ridiculed was specifically in reference to the guitar in the video. So homework be damned.

The volutes and truss rod openings on authentic Tuff Dog teles do not appear to me to be different from those features on the fake in the video, which you linked to, not me. So please, seriously, what are the significant differences that you readily see? I honestly do not know.

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:38 pm
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Post subject: Re: Made in ChinaPostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:00 am
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jmattis wrote:
You're promoting counterfeit guitars on Fender forums and calling me a douche..? :roll:

mhowell wrote:
What did you glimpse in the headstock that gave it away?
jmattis wrote:
Truss rod opening &. the neck/headstock volute in the back.
Asked and answered, IMO.
As far as the further learning goes, the internet is full of pics from real & fake Tuff Dogs, do your homework. I already gave you two points to start with.


I called you a douche because you posted negative implications regarding my intelligence. If that was not your intent with "I really don't know what to say to this" comment then what did you mean?

I'm not promoting counterfeit guitars at all. You linked to the video, not me. You don't get to just make stuff up.

I have done my homework. Other fakes I've seen online do not look like the one in the video. They do not have the Fender label nor the dog inlay. Besides that, the comment that you ridiculed was specifically in reference to the guitar in the video. So homework be damned.

The volutes and truss rod openings on authentic Tuff Dog teles do not appear to me to be different from those features on the fake in the video, which you linked to, not me. So please, seriously, what are the significant differences that you readily see? I honestly do not know.


gotta love the Fender Forums...


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:57 am
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Previously unaware of Stratosphere, I looked them up.

A new US Strat rosewood neck is about £349 in GB; maple a bit more. By my reckoning, including import taxes, Stratosphere's (used?) necks wouldn't be that much cheaper (to my door). I'm taking into account that we pay in £ what Americans pay in $. So surely it's a bit unlikely they're selling fake Fender bits?

Otherwise, it rather depends on your point of view re Chinese knock-offs. Legally, in any civilised country it's fraud (or similar) to pass them off as genuine Fender / Gibson. Simple as that. Not to mention any offences against consumer law, which would certainly apply in GB.

From another angle, though - if you want one as, perhaps, a starter guitar which looks like your hero's - fair enough, maybe. Many people aren't very interested in the finer points of the law when it comes to buying something they fancy. When I started - so skint I knotted broken strings - I'd probably have jumped at Hank's Strat-a-like, dirt cheap and of a quality no worse than my other guitars from that era!

Having said all that, a used MIM or, in fact, any genuine Far Eastern Strat looks a way better deal in 2016. I have an Indonesian Squier Bronco bass and the neck is really nice. Great quality for the money on modern cheapies!

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:19 pm
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IMO, I think there can be a difference in a quality in a guitar from an original OEM factory that specifically makes that brand, and a company in the far east who contracts to the parent company and makes their own product with the only difference being the decal or name plastered on that product.

My specific experience with this is with Takamine & Fender. I had a chinese Takamine that was a nice guitar, but it did not play like a Takamine. I ended up getting a Japanese version of that instrument and it was a completely different beast altogether, a far better instrument.

Also, I have a Fender Heartfield Talon V and Ive always had people say to me that it looks so much like an Ibanez RG, which it essentially is. It was made on the same production line in the same factory, just a slightly different headstock shape, a different decal.. slightly different cutaway shapes.. but the neck, neck pocket, pickups, hardware etc.. its all the same.

Tokai Japan Goldstar series and Fender MIJ Reissue instruments are made on the same factory line, albeit different pickups and decals..

Next time you buy 'Label' clothes you really have to ask yourselves when you see the garment made in china, india or wherever in the east. Is that really Levis or a Polo shirt or was it made in a factory that just makes them one week, another brand the next week?

So what is a copy and what is the genuine thing?

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:33 am
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[quote="Blertles" So what is a copy and what is the genuine thing?[/quote]

So lets say you have a band with some kind of shtick and costumes and you become successful, and tour and all is going so nice. Now you find out that there is an imposter band using your success, shtick, costumes, and all , and cheaper and they are OK, not great but can be pass to the folks who really can't tell the difference, and for a lot less money.
Now there are two of you, one genuine, and does a really great job, and one copy, and there OK, but cheaper, and because of costumes no one can tell by looking, Now the reviews come out, but the one writing it had seen the imposter band, and reviewed it as; the costumes are great but the show was lacking substance . This would be bad for your tour. And that is my 2 cents on "So what is a copy and what is the genuine"
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