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Post subject: Made in China
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:38 pm
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This is probably old news for most of you but I've recently discovered how easy it is to get a decent fake Fender. I always knew they were around but I recently discovered several Chinese websites where you can pick out a fake and order it. It's as easy as amazon. I'm not going to post the websites because I don't wish to promote them.

There is youtube video of a guy unpacking his 'made in china' Haggard Tuff Dog Tele. Through youtube it appeared to be a very accurate copy. I've seen fakes before but this was a whole new level of copy - This was a damn fine instrument from the highly figured maple, to the hardware, down to the custom shop stamp and serial number. I was borderline stunned. No doubt a knowledgeable expert would find numerous errors with the fake but I'm not sure I could spot it as a fake even if it was in my hands.

The websites also sold copies from other brands such as PRS and Gibson and most of them looked really good. This has been eye opening to me. From now on I question every guitar on ebay and craigslist...EVERY.FREAKING.GUITAR! I'm even casting suspicious looks at the guitars I own.

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:18 pm
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that is a reality, and the feeling of having been violated can be intense if youve ever gotten hosed by a counterfeit (to any degree) seller. i guess you can avoid this by asking the seller to take closeups of the parts disassembled, but many (my experience) , even high volume legitimate sellers, will refeuse, unless its vintage to any degree; in which case its obligatory and in the listing pics already. if you know how to verify what youre looking for, and they refuse, keep looking. short of that, my rule is to buy from sellers with hundreds to thousands of sales with high feedback ratings. one could narily be in that category being a counterfeit seller by trade; it would have caught up with them before long... youd assume :?


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:24 pm
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I regard such brazen fakery by the PRC as a clear and present danger to the future of the industry. One day we may wake up to this reality......

Image

It won't be pretty.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:05 am
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well, arjay, if we find out theyve been 'accidentally/inexplicably' impregnating their counterfeits and MIC's with goodies lead, murcury and melamine, like many of their USA export baby/child toys and pet treats have over the years, people might just skip the PRC strats and the industry will have been saved! :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:24 am
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Generally speaking - if it's cheap, there's a good reason...!


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:36 am
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Peter S wrote:
Generally speaking - if it's cheap, there's a good reason...!

Yep. The main reason being that buyers are cheap. That's what creates the market.


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:55 am
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Your right auth1, people are cheap, but it's seldom to their advantage buying counterfeit . A couple comments...I came across a fake Rolex a few years ago. Our neighbor asked how can you tell a fake Rolex. My wife told her "by the person wearing it". I've looked at the Chinese websites, many very convincing guitars. The only really obviously fake just by looking at the poor quality pictures are the "R" tailpieces on the fake Rickenbackers. They aren't even close. With Fender, Gibson, and PRS making so many models it gets harder to tell what actually came out of their shops.


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:20 am
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Just 2 days ago I picked up my Martin guitar after some fret work. My luthier showed me a fake Chi-com PRS some one brought to him. The seller in China painted over the headstock and logo with watercolor to get thru customs. Then the watercolor paint wiped right off exposing the fraud underneath. I wouldn't buy one even if I liked PRS guitars, but it did seem nice. :|


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:55 am
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I have seen those sites and it make me very made :evil: , They even go as far as engraving Made in USA right on the head stock of the Gibson fakes and if it were not for the fact that the company that sells them place there logo on the photo of it I will not post the picture of the said fake POS neck that should never be allowed for export ever :evil: They even have signature guitars like Alpine white Custom Shop peter frampton signature 3 pickups gold hardware electric guitar,
mud


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:49 pm
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Another thing that gets me is that they could do legitimate business and probably do well. There's no need for all the fraud.

Yunzhi is a company that makes traditional jazz archtops but they don't put Gibson or D'Angelico on the headstock. Some of there designs are copies but some are original and they sell under their own name. Yunzhi, at least as far as I can tell, is doing very well - except I'm not sure how to pronounce the name.

There's also Hotman Guitars that makes fine archtops and Eastman has become very successful. Now I know why it's called Eastman.

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:27 pm
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mhowell wrote:
Another thing that gets me is that they could do legitimate business and probably do well. There's no need for all the fraud.

Cheap buyers want a deal that's too good to be true. These guys deliver just that.

Greedy buyers that want to take advantage of an apparently uninformed seller, thinking it is them that tricks the seller by not telling that they think the item is worth a lot more. I don't feel the least bit sorry for them. Greed is not a virtue. They deserve everything they get.

Those who don't deserve it are the employees of companies like Fender, Gibson and PRS.


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:54 am
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PRC can make anything these days, from crap to high end copies, if they can make such a good copy why stealing the brand names and create fakes...
Makes me angry.
I'm glad I have a big store/dealer in small country that has all originals, where I bought my AmSpcl Strat, and all Fender (USA) Replacement parts...
They stock everything from Squier to high end signature models...they are a bit pricey but we'll worth the confidence and availability of REAL Fender guitars and parts....
Cheers


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:58 am
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It's not uncommon for people to buy these guitars for the purpose of reselling them on Craigslist to the uninformed. Even if the seller states they are a Chinese copy, I've seen them sell for more than one can order one directly from China. You'll notice on the Chinese websites that if you buy several, the price goes down way more. So people in this country are doing this as a way to make a living. Now I have a couple legit guitars made in China and they are very good. Fender has some of their guitars made in Indonesia (my Modern Player Thinline for example) and they look as good or better then their products made here or Mexico. I just can't see the reason, for me anyway, to buy a fake.


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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:03 am
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China wants to be part of the international community and yet does nothing to protect the interlectual property rights of other members. For a culture that puts such value on honour it all seems very hypocritical.

The standard business plan for Western inovative products is - Make and sell as many of your product as you can before they are ripped off and, once China copies them, move on to something else.

The original will always be the best because the originator understands the design. It might be that, because a part has failed, it is made of stronger steel or the timber is laid up in a certain way etc. A faker will not know these subtleties and will just use a bolt without knowing the original is a high tensile bolt, or what ever.

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Post subject: Re: Made in China
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:29 am
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tvr1979 wrote:
It's not uncommon for people to buy these guitars for the purpose of reselling them on Craigslist to the uninformed. Even if the seller states they are a Chinese copy, I've seen them sell for more than one can order one directly from China. You'll notice on the Chinese websites that if you buy several, the price goes down way more. So people in this country are doing this as a way to make a living. Now I have a couple legit guitars made in China and they are very good. Fender has some of their guitars made in Indonesia (my Modern Player Thinline for example) and they look as good or better then their products made here or Mexico. I just can't see the reason, for me anyway, to buy a fake.


Speaking of reselling, came across a listing on ebay for a Les Paul Supreme where the seller admits that it is a 'replica' and the opening bid was over $500. No mention that it is made in China. There were no bids so maybe consumers are starting to wise up.

Also found a few youtube videos showing how to spot the fakes. Unfortunately some of the discrepancies with the fakes can be easily fixed - such as fake grover tuners.

There is one video that made me laugh - they pointed out some finish flaws on a Chinese Gibson but also pointed out that the same type flaws can be found on genuine Gibsons. I had to laugh.

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