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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:38 am
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WaymoreProta wrote:
Peter S wrote:
Thanks Waymore - at least the surf green came out reasonably well on the main photo. Surf or Sea Foam often looks more blue, doesn't it?!

Just noticed on the 2nd photo that the saddle screws aren't as 'even' as I thought - because I moved the shorter E screws around a bit and shortened the others. Bit more swapping around should do it, from a cosmetic point of view!

Maybe my neck's lower than yours - it would certainly explain why your saddle screws don't stick up like mine did - but I wouldn't necessarily base that on the p/up positions as shown. It takes me weeks, if not months, to get a new Strat adjusted to how I like it (and will keep it). So at present the p/ups might be in the Fender-recommended positions - or they might not!

Funnily enough, when I took the neck off (I always check for nasty paper labels between the wood-to-wood joint) there was a thin strip of ply already shimming the neck back a bit. Looks factory original to me - do they do this - it's a new one on me? Surprised they didn't make it a bit thicker while they were about it and get the saddle screw height right!

I'm not a fan of shimming, but may make an exception in this case if/when I get a new trem unit and string height is greater.

Cheers - Peter.


I didn't use pups a reference point only take a look at the thickness of the neck above scratch plate at your pic and mine, looks like there considerably higher in my case.

I didn't noticed anything between the neck and the body seems flush without shims.

I also heard many guys finding on necks of Specials when they removed em a stamp "Highway 1 upgrade"

It also takes me a few weeks of tweaking to get exactly how I like it, I finally finished few days ago. I'm bit OCD when it comes to setup.

So all my strings are 1.6mm or 4/64 at 17th fret with capo on first and neck relief is .010 (no fret buzz even with my Knopflerian style of picking) and I found that I like the tremolo bridge sitting half of Fender's recommend so around 1,5-1,16 mm and all 5 springs pulling it back.

If you decide to shim the neck I would always use a thin piece of wood, any wood but definitely thin piece, you can get made at local wood shop.

Cheers.
Waymore - I'm not sure why you put a capo on the 1st fret before taking the measurement. Fender specs do not recommend that. I have read that if you use the capo method, the measurement is at the 12th fret. Personal preference rules, however. I have managed to get my MIA Standard's relief to less than .008" and string height at 17th fret to less than 4/64" without a capo. There is no buzzing unless I pick/strum pretty hard. I imagine if I was playing with a band, I would want to set it higher. It took several months for this new Strat. to finally settle in to where it is. At first there was buzzing all over the place, but I'm loving everything about it now.

I ordered 2 more trem tension springs to see how that works. How do you like that? Other than adjusting the claw, were there any other major (or minor) adjustments you made to your setup. I'm hoping I don't have to do anything but the claw. I float my bridge pretty much like yours.

Anyway. I've enjoyed the conversations here and love the color of your Special and Peter's classic Surf Green. It's fun picking up the electric again after decades of playing acoustics. - LL


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:54 am
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I'm not sure why you put a capo on the 1st fret before taking the measurement. Fender specs do not recommend that. I have read that if you use the capo method, the measurement is at the 12th fret.


It's to eliminate the height of the nut and also a good indicator if your nut is too hight. Even if I remove the capo the action at 17th would raise just a fraction, around 0.1.5mm to 1.75mm approx.
And with capo it's 1.55mm at 12th fret.

Any lower and I personally don't like it, for bending and my style of finger picking.

Also I use 10 gauge strings, and they need just a bit more air under them to avoid fret buzz, thicker string oscillating etc..(and I don't like not even acoustic buzz)


Last edited by WaymoreProta on Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:00 am
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Quote:
I ordered 2 more trem tension springs to see how that works. How do you like that? Other than adjusting the claw, were there any other major (or minor) adjustments you made to your setup. I'm hoping I don't have to do anything but the claw. I float my bridge pretty much like yours.


Yeah I like 5 springs setup, vibratoS are more precise since there's more tension, tuning seem to be better and while bending other string don't go as flat as with 3 springs stretched out, at least that's what my tuner says :wink:

And yeah just realise the claw till you get bridge height you want.


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:08 am
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Quote:
I have managed to get my MIA Standard's relief to less than .008" and string height at 17th fret to less than 4/64" without a capo.


Mind you MIA standard has smaller frets, specials come with jumbo frets, so action might look higher visually at Special...


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:08 pm
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WaymoreProta wrote:
Quote:
I ordered 2 more trem tension springs to see how that works. How do you like that? Other than adjusting the claw, were there any other major (or minor) adjustments you made to your setup. I'm hoping I don't have to do anything but the claw. I float my bridge pretty much like yours.


Yeah I like 5 springs setup, vibratoS are more precise since there's more tension, tuning seem to be better and while bending other string don't go as flat as with 3 springs stretched out, at least that's what my tuner says :wink:

And yeah just realise the claw till you get bridge height you want.
Well that was fast. I ordered my extra springs and shorter trem arm Friday afternoon and received them today (OverDrive, StratCat.biz). I really like the 4 1/4" arm. It's not only shorter, it's designed where it moves away from the pickup/bridge area before it bends back in to use. You don't have to let it dangle down when not using. The extra springs tighten things up a bit. If I was a dive bomber, it would be too much. As it is, it seems like bends are more sure and solid and it's not like decking which I don't want. I still get some bridge movement on deep bends, but not as much. It's all better (not wow wee, I wish I had known). :?


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:19 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
WaymoreProta wrote:
Quote:
I ordered 2 more trem tension springs to see how that works. How do you like that? Other than adjusting the claw, were there any other major (or minor) adjustments you made to your setup. I'm hoping I don't have to do anything but the claw. I float my bridge pretty much like yours.


Yeah I like 5 springs setup, vibratoS are more precise since there's more tension, tuning seem to be better and while bending other string don't go as flat as with 3 springs stretched out, at least that's what my tuner says :wink:

And yeah just realise the claw till you get bridge height you want.
Well that was fast. I ordered my extra springs and shorter trem arm Friday afternoon and received them today (OverDrive, StratCat.biz). I really like the 4 1/4" arm. It's not only shorter, it's designed where it moves away from the pickup/bridge area before it bends back in to use. You don't have to let it dangle down when not using. The extra springs tighten things up a bit. If I was a dive bomber, it would be too much. As it is, it seems like bends are more sure and solid and it's not like decking which I don't want. I still get some bridge movement on deep bends, but not as much. It's all better (not wow wee, I wish I had known). :?


Glad you like it! 5springs really isn't for dive bombing but for subtle vibrato.
And yeah bridge will always move on deep bends but less with more springs.
Enjoy
Cheers


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:55 am
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OK, the money was burning a hole in my pocket! Ordered a Callaham VN and fitted it today - or tried to...

While it obviously fits OK as regards screws and string spacing etc, the block fouled the body rout before allowing much downbend. The trem arm tip was about 1.5" off the scratchplate and wouldn't go any lower, whereas the original trem 'gap' was about 1/2" - as it should be.

If you normally have the trem decked, and hardly use the trem, you might find it acceptable, but I have a floating trem and that results in hardly any downbend at all. The block on the Callaham looks a fraction bigger, so it's either that, or the body rout missed QC!

As other people (on the 'other' forum) appear to have fitted this trem to this guitar without problems (and it's the one Callaham recommends), it's all a bit odd.

So it's unfortunately going back for a refund. Pity, as it's a lovely unit. Have emailed Callaham; be interesting to see what they say.

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:39 pm
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Sounds like you simply need to set the height of the bridge mounting screws (maybe a little too tight?) and maybe tighten the trem claw screws to lower the bridge to about 1/8" or so off of the body, measured at the rear of the bridge.

String changes sometimes requires a few tweaks.

When changing the bridge, install the new bridge without connecting the springs. With the bridge flat to body, and mounting screw heads not touching the bridge plate, tighten each mounting screw, one at a time, until the rear of the bridge lifts, then back off that screw til the bridge is flat on the body again, and back off just a little more so the the screw head is barely off of the bridge plate. Same with next screw, etc.

Then put on the springs, and string as usual.

The Callaham block is a big chunk of steel, very much like the Fender originals from way back, so you probably wont get dive bomb movement. If you prefer more whammy use to the tone improvement, this block might not be for you.

Is your original block skinnier and beveled?

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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:52 am
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Thanks Shimmi - what you suggest is exactly how I did it! Yes, I'm more used to setting up 2-point/block saddle trems, but I've been messing around with Strats since the 70's, so I'm not too bad with the vintage type.

See the photos for the difference between the original trem downbend and the Callaham. This is pressing the arm, without springs, until the block touches the woodwork and obviously won't go any further. Not the best photos, and yes, I know the arms have a different bend, but you can see the difference at the back of the baseplate. On a floating trem, believe me, there is very little downbend on the Callaham. I don't want divebombs, but you need more than that!

The problem is that the block fouls the underneath of the rear of the trem rout, on the topside as you look down at the Strat lying on it's back. Doesn't matter whether you have 2 or 6 screws in, or how tight/loose they are.

Having had the SuperVee off my Plus to try it on the Special (works fine), I notice the Plus rout is a bit bigger. Obviously it's a very different Strat (1993 v 2014) but the problem's either the Special rout, or - as you say - the Callaham block being a big old beast, or a combination of both. No, the original block isn't tapered (like the Plus) but it is a fraction smaller.

The annoying thing is that Callaham specifies this (vintage mount/modern spacing) trem for this specific guitar. So I'd expect it to work, especially for what it costs over here! Perhaps after the holiday Callaham will comment.

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:44 am
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I for one am very interested in Callaham's answer, so maybe post it on the forum.

The problem could be the block dimensions (sometimes also shape); the block placement on the trem plate; or the shape of the body routing.

But (and I say this too often): drop-in replacements seldom exist.


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:09 am
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jmattis wrote:
I for one am very interested in Callaham's answer, so maybe post it on the forum.

The problem could be the block dimensions (sometimes also shape); the block placement on the trem plate; or the shape of the body routing.

But (and I say this too often): drop-in replacements seldom exist.


Will do, JM, as long as I'm not breaching any rules!

Otherwise - yes, I think you're dead right. In some respect, the Callaham clearly isn't the same dimensions as the original Ping unit.

If a Callaham is off the menu, I could buy another SuperVee. It's nicely made and definitely IS a drop-in replacement (I tried it!), but I have to say I prefer the softer feel of the Fender/Callaham trem (either old or new types). I may just replace it with another Ping unit, as I've bodged the original and - to my jaded ears - it sounds good enough.

Re that original, I've now discovered that the thread in the block has been ruined by some previous owner, and I've also got a stripped saddle intonation screw/hole. Saddles seem to be made from cheese - just got to be careful, I suppose. The Fender part (trem) is proving very difficult to source over here, though...

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:10 am
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Peter S wrote:
jmattis wrote:
I for one am very interested in Callaham's answer, so maybe post it on the forum.

The problem could be the block dimensions (sometimes also shape); the block placement on the trem plate; or the shape of the body routing.

But (and I say this too often): drop-in replacements seldom exist.


Will do, JM, as long as I'm not breaching any rules!

Otherwise - yes, I think you're dead right. In some respect, the Callaham clearly isn't the same dimensions as the original Ping unit.

If a Callaham is off the menu, I could buy another SuperVee. It's nicely made and definitely IS a drop-in replacement (I tried it!), but I have to say I prefer the softer feel of the Fender/Callaham trem (either old or new types). I may just replace it with another Ping unit, as I've bodged the original and - to my jaded ears - it sounds good enough.

Re that original, I've now discovered that the thread in the block has been ruined by some previous owner, and I've also got a stripped saddle intonation screw/hole. Saddles seem to be made from cheese - just got to be careful, I suppose. The Fender part (trem) is proving very difficult to source over here, though...

Cheers - Peter.


Well, I thought I'd just update this one, if only for JM! A month on, I've had no response from Mr Callaham or his staff. Neither has his UK agent, who's been involved in the process. I'm afraid I won't be buying any of his products in the future, but I doubt he'll be bothered! Pity.

Meanwhile, I'm still using a bodged original trem on the Special. It sounds good, though, and I have a new one on order (without stripped threads etc!).

Cheers - Peter.


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:36 am
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Most peculiar that no reply policy, especially since I'd estimate AmSpec owners to be in the top of Callaham's potential customers target group.

I hold my fortress: drop-in replacements seldom exist...


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:27 pm
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jmattis wrote:
Most peculiar that no reply policy, especially since I'd estimate AmSpec owners to be in the top of Callaham's potential customers target group.

I hold my fortress: drop-in replacements seldom exist...

I have a Callaham in a MIM and a HWY1 and both were drop in replacements, no problem.


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Post subject: Re: Callaham VN bridge or what?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:56 pm
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Minnesotastrats wrote:
I have a Callaham in a MIM and a HWY1 and both were drop in replacements, no problem.


+1

I've installed close to a dozen Callaham trem blocks into various MIM Strats (Classic Series, Deluxe Player, Standard) and each of them were a drop-in fit.

Arjay

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