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Post subject: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:02 am
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Just bought new Springs for my New American Special. It came with 3 springs and it was made in 2013 by serial number and sat in store till two weeks ago. Anyway new springs it is, gonna go for 4 or 5,not decked, just to minimize the flatting out other strings when doing bends. I figure the factory ones after 2-3 years are stretched to loose some of the spring rate (yeah I've been a lot around cars) Also got the spring for tremolo arm, that I lost when I took the sticker off and turned the guitar over lol

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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:22 am
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I don't know that I have ever noticed spring sag developing over time on Strat claw springs. What I have noticed is that all new springs are not created equal. Right out of the package, some springs have a stronger pull than others.

I suggest when you replace your springs that you angle your claw slightly such that the spring on the low E end is stretched out more than the spring on the high E end of the block. The heavier strings exert more force on the neck and bridge than the thinner strings. It can only help the tuning stability of a floating bridge to have those forces more closely balanced across the length of the bridge.

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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:17 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I don't know that I have ever noticed spring sag developing over time on Strat claw springs.


+1

In my 48-year association with Fender's Stratocaster I've never seen a trem spring weaken with age.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:53 am
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To anyone - I would like to keep my bridge floating, but also find it annoying doing bends that cause the other strings to go flat as well as making the bend longer than it needs to be. Would adding more springs make it more stable yet floating if I use 9-42 gauge strings? Is that enough string tension to keep the bridge floating with 4 or 5 springs? I'm guessing "no" since it would make sense to produce the guitars that way.


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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:03 am
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LawFlow wrote:
To anyone - I would like to keep my bridge floating, but also find it annoying doing bends that cause the other strings to go flat as well as making the bend longer than it needs to be. Would adding more springs make it more stabled yet floating if I use 9-42 gauge strings? Is that enough string tension to keep the bridge floating with 4 or 5 springs? I'm guessing "no" since it would make sense to produce the guitars that way.


Now I just finished setup, I've gone with 5 strings eventually, so when doing bends there's a lot less movement of the bridge, so strings get less flat, almost, as you can compensate with technique, but floating bridge will always do that stock.
Mind you you have to adjust the action when done with angle of the bridge.
It's all matter of how it feels and what compromises you have to make. After all it's a Strat...
I run 10's and while doing bends other strings go less flat, and tuner proves it.
Just play around till you get what you like.
Taking all things in consideration, fizics, it tension there vs tension there vs angle vs action height vs fret buzz vs bends etc..
What feels good and sounds good it must be good.
All other specs bla bla...YouTube experts etc are making a fairy tale out of setup.
As long as it doesn't fret out, holds the tuning, has reasonable action and it intonates perfectly it's all good.
Leo designed the Strat so you can adjust pretty much everything to your desire. Your being a key word.


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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:05 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
I don't know that I have ever noticed spring sag developing over time on Strat claw springs.


+1

In my 48-year association with Fender's Stratocaster I've never seen a trem spring weaken with age.

Arjay


To be honest I wanted a new set of 5 springs to play around :P


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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:07 am
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Nothing wrong with that. Many of us like to experiment with these instruments.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:09 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Nothing wrong with that. Many of us like to experiment with these instruments.

Arjay


It's like they were made to experiment and a perfect setup is always one step beyond, I like that.


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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:08 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
To anyone - I would like to keep my bridge floating, but also find it annoying doing bends that cause the other strings to go flat as well as making the bend longer than it needs to be. Would adding more springs make it more stable yet floating if I use 9-42 gauge strings? Is that enough string tension to keep the bridge floating with 4 or 5 springs? I'm guessing "no" since it would make sense to produce the guitars that way.


A common cure for big bends/flat other strings is to deck the trem with the springs; it's OK if you don't use the trem a lot, and it leaves the trem functioning one way.

But closer to the topic & trying to give an answer:
Physics101 says, that on a floating trem the strings pull to one direction (let's say like D'Addario's .009 set 84.44 lbs / 38,3 kg), so to balance that, the springs need to pull with the same force to the opposite direction.
And, that the required spring pull can be achieved with less springs tensioned more, or more springs tensioned less.
And, if you increase the string side tension (by bending one/more strings), the springs will give in, and the tension/tune on unbent strings drops.

But then, welcome to the Twilight Zone: for some reason, the "stability" you want, and the "feel" of a guitar is different with less/more springs. I think this has something to do with the springs acting differently when tensioned a little vs tensioned a lot, but that's just my gut feeling.
I can only say, experiment. Try more springs, see if the result is good for your playing style.


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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:13 pm
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jmattis wrote:
LawFlow wrote:
To anyone - I would like to keep my bridge floating, but also find it annoying doing bends that cause the other strings to go flat as well as making the bend longer than it needs to be. Would adding more springs make it more stable yet floating if I use 9-42 gauge strings? Is that enough string tension to keep the bridge floating with 4 or 5 springs? I'm guessing "no" since it would make sense to produce the guitars that way.


A common cure for big bends/flat other strings is to deck the trem with the springs; it's OK if you don't use the trem a lot, and it leaves the trem functioning one way.

But closer to the topic & trying to give an answer:
Physics101 says, that on a floating trem the strings pull to one direction (let's say like D'Addario's .009 set 84.44 lbs / 38,3 kg), so to balance that, the springs need to pull with the same force to the opposite direction.
And, that the required spring pull can be achieved with less springs tensioned more, or more springs tensioned less.
And, if you increase the string side tension (by bending one/more strings), the springs will give in, and the tension/tune on unbent strings drops.

But then, welcome to the Twilight Zone: for some reason, the "stability" you want, and the "feel" of a guitar is different with less/more springs. I think this has something to do with the springs acting differently when tensioned a little vs tensioned a lot, but that's just my gut feeling.
I can only say, experiment. Try more springs, see if the result is good for your playing style.


Exactly what you said.
And as for springs acting differently, yeah it's spring rate, we used to adjust those on cars etc it's complexed...


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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:55 pm
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WaymoreProta wrote:
And as for springs acting differently, yeah it's spring rate, we used to adjust those on cars etc it's complexed...


+1

I suspect the principle is the same -- on a car, suspensions are tuned to compensate for a number of variables such as tire sidewall flex and un-sprung weight while on a Strat, the objective is to achieve a symbiotic equilibrium between strings and springs.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:02 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
WaymoreProta wrote:
And as for springs acting differently, yeah it's spring rate, we used to adjust those on cars etc it's complexed...


+1

I suspect the principle is the same -- on a car, suspensions are tuned to compensate for a number of variables such as tire sidewall flex and un-sprung weight while on a Strat, the objective is to achieve a symbiotic equilibrium between strings and springs.

Arjay


Exactly,
On a car shocks control springs and vice versa, on a floating bridge springs compensate for string tension. While a bump may compress the spring on a car, here we have while bending stretching a spring, it's all about active coils on a spring, tree steached is not the same rate as 4 or five less stretched. The larger the gap between every coil the different is the rate of the spring.


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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:50 pm
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WaymoreProta wrote:
LawFlow wrote:
To anyone - I would like to keep my bridge floating, but also find it annoying doing bends that cause the other strings to go flat as well as making the bend longer than it needs to be. Would adding more springs make it more stabled yet floating if I use 9-42 gauge strings? Is that enough string tension to keep the bridge floating with 4 or 5 springs? I'm guessing "no" since it would make sense to produce the guitars that way.


Now I just finished setup, I've gone with 5 strings eventually, so when doing bends there's a lot less movement of the bridge, so strings get less flat, almost, as you can compensate with technique, but floating bridge will always do that stock.
Mind you you have to adjust the action when done with angle of the bridge.
It's all matter of how it feels and what compromises you have to make. After all it's a Strat...
I run 10's and while doing bends other strings go less flat, and tuner proves it.
Just play around till you get what you like.
Taking all things in consideration, fizics, it tension there vs tension there vs angle vs action height vs fret buzz vs bends etc..
What feels good and sounds good it must be good.
All other specs bla bla...YouTube experts etc are making a fairy tale out of setup.
As long as it doesn't fret out, holds the tuning, has reasonable action and it intonates perfectly it's all good.
Leo designed the Strat so you can adjust pretty much everything to your desire. Your being a key word.

I think I'll go ahead and try this for myself. I can't see how setup would be affected other than loosening the claw screws to compensate for the extra spring tension. I would reset the bridge to its former height and the offsetting tension between springs and strings would not require relief, action, or intonation adjustments, only the claw adjustment. The main difference would be difficulty "dive bombing". Right?


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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:47 pm
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WaymoreProta wrote:
Just bought new Springs for my New American Special. It came with 3 springs and it was made in 2013 by serial number and sat in store till two weeks ago. Anyway new springs it is, gonna go for 4 or 5,not decked, just to minimize the flatting out other strings when doing bends. I figure the factory ones after 2-3 years are stretched to loose some of the spring rate (yeah I've been a lot around cars) Also got the spring for tremolo arm, that I lost when I took the sticker off and turned the guitar over lol

Image


I saw this exact photo on FB today in the Fender Fanatics Group.
Maybe it was you?

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Post subject: Re: New springs
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:24 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
WaymoreProta wrote:
Just bought new Springs for my New American Special. It came with 3 springs and it was made in 2013 by serial number and sat in store till two weeks ago. Anyway new springs it is, gonna go for 4 or 5,not decked, just to minimize the flatting out other strings when doing bends. I figure the factory ones after 2-3 years are stretched to loose some of the spring rate (yeah I've been a lot around cars) Also got the spring for tremolo arm, that I lost when I took the sticker off and turned the guitar over lol

Image


I saw this exact photo on FB today in the Fender Fanatics Group.
Maybe it was you?


It's my pic but I didn't post it on FB, oh never-ending, gonna check out that group anyway :)


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