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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:01 pm
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jmattis wrote:
Jammer4492 wrote:
Thanks for the info. The wiring schematic is more for my peace of mind than anything else. I would just like to have it written down in some fashion.

This should be close enough for comfort: 70s Strat wiring diagram

Jammer4492 wrote:
Ultimately, my goal here is to recreate a stock 1972/1973 Fender Stratocaster as accurately as possible. Many of my heroes played these guitars with the electronics completely stock (Blackmore and Uli Jon Roth come to mind). While I may never come close to doing what they did, I would like to have all the elements there, hence the .05uf tone cap and wondering if the Fender one or the Sprague one would be closer to the Cornell-Dubilier original (or if there's a way to get my hands on a NOS one

To be honest, I seriously doubt anyone could hear a difference between different brand .05uf caps...
Vintagecorrectness (or, as I call it when I notice myself doing it, OCD) is a whole different thing. Cornell-Dubiliers are still available; you just have do dome ebay (&such) digging.


That is perfect. Thank you!

I imagine you're right re: the tone cap. I have been trying to find a Cornell-Dubilier but with no such luck so far. I guess I'll keep looking, because I am totally OCD about it, but I may just go with the Sprague (though the leads look a bit short).

Also re: the Blackmore thing, I knew he didn't use the middle pickup, but other than that (and scalloping) I didn't think he modified his guitars in any way, at least in the '70s (which is the tone I'm going for). This is the first I'm hearing of a Master Tone Circuit. Was this something he did in the 80s or throughout his whole career?


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:13 pm
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Frankly, I'd spend more time honing my Blackmore licks than worrying about which brand of tone cap was installed in his guitar.

Can you play a note-for-note solo passage for "Sweet Child Of Time" or "Highway Star"?

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:06 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Frankly, I'd spend more time honing my Blackmore licks than worrying about which brand of tone cap was installed in his guitar.

Can you play a note-for-note solo passage for "Sweet Child Of Time" or "Highway Star"?

:mrgreen:

Arjay


Well said! I certainly am, but I don't have as many questions in that department, and when I do, I can consult the entire Deep Purple catalog I have on CD/Vinyl :mrgreen:

I can do "Highway Star," but not "Child in Time." The solo from "Highway Star" for me is easier, maybe because it was a more planned-out solo whereas "Child in Time" was just a total shred-fest. It's a great challenge of mine to figure that one out. I'm also working on "Catch Your Train" by the Scorpions which is just crazy. My thing in the playing department is that I idolize guys like Blackmore and Uli Jon Roth but I tend to play more like Cream-era Clapton and Ace Frehley (i.e. tasty, slow, and with an emphasis on vibrato and sustain). Another idol of mine is Robin Trower, and, correct me if I'm wrong, I am 99.9% sure he played a stock '70s Strat, at least in his earlier solo years (Twice Removed from Yesterday and Bridge of Sighs) and I can play a heck of a lot more like him than I can like Blackmore and Roth.

At the end of the day, I'm just kind of a nut about making things vintage-accurate. For some weird reason, I am fascinated with the look, feel, tone, and overall vibe of '72/'73 Strats and would just love to recreate that with what I have.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:53 pm
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Jammer4492 wrote:
At the end of the day, I'm just kind of a nut about making things vintage-accurate. For some weird reason, I am fascinated with the look, feel, tone, and overall vibe of '72/'73 Strats and would just love to recreate that with what I have.


I can empathize with that -- I'm the same way with my collection of vintage Fender amps (14 at last count).

The '70s-era Strats get pooh-poohed regularly and for sure, Fender built a great number of bowsers during that decade. But there were also just as many shining, unheralded jewels that players are only recently re-discovering. Which is why prices for primo pieces are now steadily climbing just as when guitarists began to flock back to Strats and the '50s and '60s models assumed collectible status. Foolishly I let a '63 and a '66 slip from my grasp when the Les Paul craze began.

With the right amp/effects and solid riffs/phrasing, your guitar shouldn't have any problems replicating the tone of Blackmore, Trower, California, Roth, or any other notable Strat artist.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:53 pm
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All right, so I'm gearing up for the overhaul, should be occurring in the next month or so. Still trying to find the tone cap. I'm thinking it might be best to try and track down the actual thing. Anyone know where I might be able to find an original .05m 100v Z5V ceramic disc cap? Fender used these on almost all guitars throughout the '70s and early '80s but I seem to only be able to find them wired with pots and wiring harnesses. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but for the way I want the Strat wired, I would have to do too much desoldering to make it worth it.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:30 pm
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Fittings comparison:
For your reference, I happen to have two of my pick-guards removed. Here's my American Vintage-correct 70's Strat ('71 reissue to be exact)....

Image


...and here's my Fender MIJ '72 Reissue...

Image

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1988 Fender USA YJM Signature Stratocaster - Sonic Blue/Maple
1996 Fender MIJ '72 Reissue Stratocaster - Natural/Maple
2008 Fender American Vintage RI '70s Stratocaster - Olympic White/Maple
1994 Gibson Les Paul Studio (Gold Hdw) - Ebony/Ebony


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:23 pm
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80sGuy wrote:
Fittings comparison:
For your reference, I happen to have two of my pick-guards removed. Here's my American Vintage-correct 70's Strat ('71 reissue to be exact)....

Image


...and here's my Fender MIJ '72 Reissue...

Image


Thanks for the comparison! While the pots are clearly smaller on the MIJ, I don't foresee any issues getting the new parts in there. If there is, I will figure things out from there.

Just an update, I purchased a vintage wiring harness from a '77 Strat from before they moved over to the 5-way switch. It has the pots, the tone cap, and the 3-way switch. I will purchase a set of pickups and then in the next 2 weeks they will be installed in my Strat. At this point, I think I will be going with the CS'69 pickups (as, if I'm not mistaken, the pickups were more or less unchanged from '68 to '74 when they started doing the flush polepieces. This, IMO, is when the '70s CBS Strats really started going downhill). The other set I'm looking at is the Klein '74 Set. If anyone has any experience with this set, a review would be wonderful.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:43 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
IIRC Blackmore removed the middle pickup from some of his Strats so I wouldn't regard that as "completely stock" electronics.

Just something to keep in mind.


Not only that, but Ritchie Blackmore's strats are equipped with an MTC (Master Tone Circuit) made by Ritchie's tech, John "Dawk" Stillwell. The MTC is sort of like a treble bleed that tightens up the tone depending on how hard you pick. Unfortunately, Dawk passed away in December, so you can no longer order the MTC from him. :(

Image
Are these similar to the TBX knobs found on earlier Yngwie models? If so you can still get them from Fender. My YJM Strat tone knobs are fitted with them and love it!

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1988 Fender USA YJM Signature Stratocaster - Sonic Blue/Maple
1996 Fender MIJ '72 Reissue Stratocaster - Natural/Maple
2008 Fender American Vintage RI '70s Stratocaster - Olympic White/Maple
1994 Gibson Les Paul Studio (Gold Hdw) - Ebony/Ebony


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:57 pm
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Jammer4492 wrote:
80sGuy wrote:
Fittings comparison:
For your reference, I happen to have two of my pick-guards removed. Here's my American Vintage-correct 70's Strat ('71 reissue to be exact)....

Image


...and here's my Fender MIJ '72 Reissue...

Image


Thanks for the comparison! While the pots are clearly smaller on the MIJ, I don't foresee any issues getting the new parts in there. If there is, I will figure things out from there.

Just an update, I purchased a vintage wiring harness from a '77 Strat from before they moved over to the 5-way switch. It has the pots, the tone cap, and the 3-way switch. I will purchase a set of pickups and then in the next 2 weeks they will be installed in my Strat. At this point, I think I will be going with the CS'69 pickups (as, if I'm not mistaken, the pickups were more or less unchanged from '68 to '74 when they started doing the flush polepieces. This, IMO, is when the '70s CBS Strats really started going downhill). The other set I'm looking at is the Klein '74 Set. If anyone has any experience with this set, a review would be wonderful.

No problem. Not sure how much you want to go but have you considered the 'loaded pickguards?
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Custom-Str ... B00HASSQYW

Also, putting 'F' tuners will leave screws holes on the back of the headstock. The real F tuners are made by Schaller of Germany. The ones you get from Fender are made in Korea now. I think the last batches were fitted on 2012 American Vintage 70s. The MIM Classic 70s all have Korean F tuners known as 'Fender F-Tuners' instead of what it used to be called 'Fender/Schaller F-Tuners'

Here's a pic of one of the machine heads from my AVRI 70's...
Image

_________________
1988 Fender USA YJM Signature Stratocaster - Sonic Blue/Maple
1996 Fender MIJ '72 Reissue Stratocaster - Natural/Maple
2008 Fender American Vintage RI '70s Stratocaster - Olympic White/Maple
1994 Gibson Les Paul Studio (Gold Hdw) - Ebony/Ebony


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:12 pm
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80sGuy wrote:
No problem. Not sure how much you want to go but have you considered the 'loaded pickguards?
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Custom-Str ... B00HASSQYW

Also, putting 'F' tuners will leave screws holes on the back of the headstock. The real F tuners are made by Schaller of Germany. The ones you get from Fender are made in Korea now. I think the last batches were fitted on 2012 American Vintage 70s. The MIM Classic 70s all have Korean F tuners known as 'Fender F-Tuners' instead of what it used to be called 'Fender/Schaller F-Tuners'

Here's a pic of one of the machine heads from my AVRI 70's...
Image


I think for the time being I am abandoning updating the tuners. The Gotohs that are stock on my Strat seem to do the job well enough. But that's helpful information! Thank you.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:53 pm
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Were not the knobs on original Strats gold, which turned blue/green after time, like the copper domes on churches?
My original 1971 Strat has blue/green lettering, which was gold when I bought it, if my memory is correct.
I have just bought a MIM Classic 70s 2000/2001 vintage and the lettering is blue/green also. Seems to haved aged realistically.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:19 pm
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Strat-1971 wrote:
My original 1971 Strat has blue/green lettering, which was gold when I bought it, if my memory is correct.


Your memory fails you -- the lettering was in fact blue/green when the instrument was new.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:46 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Strat-1971 wrote:
My original 1971 Strat has blue/green lettering, which was gold when I bought it, if my memory is correct.


Your memory fails you -- the lettering was in fact blue/green when the instrument was new.

Arjay

I understand this is not the case. They were gold and oxidised to the green/blue colour.

http://www.stratcat.biz/vttc.shtml


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:22 am
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I don't give a damn about some vendor's advertising hype. I've owned two vintage Strats in my time -- a 1966 (purchased in 1968) and a 1963 (purchased in 1974). The knob lettering on both instruments was blue/green.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIJ '72 RI Overhaul
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:38 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
I don't give a damn about some vendor's advertising hype. I've owned two vintage Strats in my time -- a 1966 (purchased in 1968) and a 1963 (purchased in 1974). The knob lettering on both instruments was blue/green.

Arjay

It didn't take them long to oxidise then, did it, you rude person.
There is loads on the web about this.


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