It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:54 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:00 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:35 pm
Posts: 42
I have an old mystery body that I am trying to figure out if it could be 54.
It doesnt fit any of the later reissues.

I have a few questions rather 1954 Fender Bodies.

1) Were all the Ash bodies one-piece or did Fender use two or three piece bodies.
It is known that Fender used custom colors during 54.
2) Did fender ever use solid colour over Ash in such a way that the Grain will start showing through the paint at a later stage ? ( Meaning they did not fill the grain untill later years before applying solid colors.)
3) What kind of undercoat was used in 54.
4) Did Fender use the stick to paint the bodies in 54, leaving half of the neck pocket bare
5) Or in the case of solid colors did they just spray the top and the bottom solid including spraying the neck pocket.
6) If I am correct, nail holes should be present for both sunburst and solid colors if it wasnt oversprayed or was 54 done differently ?

Thanks


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:23 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
All Strat bodies in 1954 were ash -- usually two center-joined pieces although three-piece furniture is not uncommon. There are some notable documented specimens with single-piece bodies but they are exceedingly rare.

Grain will often show through a thin lacquer finish, whether sunburst or solid opaque paints (even if the body was sealed with Fullerplast which all Strat bodies were during the finishing process). This phenomena is especially prevalent with older guitars.

As for undercoats beneath a Duco custom color, white was most common although many solid paints were sprayed directly over a completed sunburst finish.

An original 1954 body with its factory finish intact (regardless of color) will exhibit the paint-stick mark in the neck pocket along with the nail holes in the appropriate locations on the front.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:17 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
The Stratocaster Chronicles: Celebrating 50 Years of the Fender Strat Hardcover – April 1, 2004
by Tom Wheeler (Author)

Look at Pages 70; The production of Stratocaster of 1954
______________________________
Hal Leonard : The Fender Stratocaster Paperback – 1994
By A.R. Duchossoir


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:17 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:54 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Laurel, MD
Photos, photos, photos!

You'll get your best answers with photos. Photograph the pickup cavity, the trem cavity; the front back; the top along the body (like you're look down at it while you're playing); the neck pocket and the edge on at the bottom of the body. You can also use a UV light. Also, nitro will haze up when moisture hits it (I do not suggest doing this on perpose. It will happen when you sweet). Also look up lots of photos of actual Strats from this era.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:33 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
Other than pictures; is the body complete?
Original pickguard, neckplate, trem cover, bridge, pots, pickups, markings etc. Those would be of most help dating a body w/o a neck.
The paint, undercoat, polish remnants as well as those specific stick and nail holes all add up to confirm a year date but carry over for many early year models.
Usually all the early guitars have the builders/inspectors initials in various places. The neck pocket, pickups,
trem cavity, body cavity....


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:58 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:35 pm
Posts: 42
To Retroverbial :
1) Thank you for the confirmation that all bodies were ash.
This one has two very nice center-joined pieces, almost undetectable.
I am still not bought completely that it is two piece. In the neck pocket grain goes through the center line it seems, but at the back strap-lock it looks like a center joint again. If it is a single piece, it is pretty slam dunk that it will not be a 54 reissue except for a very good tedious copy made before 1985 (pretty rare and non-viable for the early 80's). It has the typical 1954 routing marks. The long router mark in the neck pocket as a lot of 54's have and a circular routing mark in the control cavity at the sharp bent. The router diameter is exactly that of fender's router bit diameters of at least 59-62 which I could measure and compare.

2) It DOES have a whitish with a slight grayish undercoat, but NO fullerplast
I can detect.
I am not sure that fullerplast was used in the 50s. AFAIK it was used only from the very early 60s onwards and I read that fact a lot of times. If you are very sure, then this body cannot be fender as I cannot detect fullerplast as I have on my 60s strats. Or it was very artfully removed (doubt).

3) Problem is I cannot check for nail holes and dowels as this one is clearly oversprayed with some very old checked Poly. I did a solvent test and it is NOT nitro. So I will have to remove the Poly for that.
We know Poly was not used in 54, but there are reports of late 50's with poly color layer and nitro clear coat.

To stratele52:
How many pages are devoted to the 54 in that book and is it pretty in-depth ? I would like to get it if is in-depth - Thanks!

To paris, sfceric64 :
Since the finish is not Nitro, the finish needs to come off so it doesnt warrant all the effort for photos at this point. It will be better to do it once the finish is removed. Since this must be either a 54 or a very good copy of a 54 the poly cannot be original.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:07 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Is there a worm rout present in the bridge pickup cavity?

If authentic, there shouldn't be.

What's the weight of the body?

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:21 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:35 pm
Posts: 42
To Retroverbial:
1) It has no worm, meaning early 54, late 54 it was to my knowledge hand chiselled after finish applied.

2) The weight is 3.67 lb, wood only, no locks, bridge, claws etc.

2) So what about your comment about fullerplast. I really dont think this one has it.

3) I still think it is a very very clever 54 copy.
There was a Japanese 54 copy in the early 80's with no worm, but there is no way for me to get lots of photos of those to see what the differences are.

Another Question:
4) Were all the 54's done with nail-holes and dowels or were there exceptions?
Just want to gauge the information before I strip it.


Last edited by retnev on Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:39 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
Quote:
How many pages are devoted to the 54 in that book and is it pretty in-depth ? I would like to get it if is in-depth - Thanks!

Just a few....

Quote:
Since the finish is not Nitro, the finish needs to come off so it doesnt warrant all the effort for photos at this point. It will be better to do it once the finish is removed. Since this must be either a 54 or a very good copy of a 54 the poly cannot be original.

So you're saying your going to only remove the Poly coat or all the finish?
I'm assuming you don't have a complete body, so confirmation dating using multiple aspects is impossible.
good luck, you sound as though you know what you're doing and it is your guitar body.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:46 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:35 pm
Posts: 42
To sfceric64:

Yes only the Poly. If it is a 54, the poly must come off. Were no poly possible in 54 afaik as poly was reportedly invented later.
Well, I have to first make sure that it is not a japanese 54 Reissue. I dont want to strip a valid finish.
It is difficult to get hold of Japanese 54 reissues to compare. The one thing that tells me it is nopt Japanese, is that the Japanese will not use one or two piece ash on a knockoff in the early 80's. They are known to use 3-piece and usually replacement wood species.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:13 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
A few notes from guitar HQ ref your questions.

Sometimes the under-the-pickguard route for the lead pickup does not have the wire channel route until about summer 1954, when Fender added a shallow wire channel route in the lead pickup cavity. Because this proved to be a problem, often a hand chiseled wire channel was added to the Strat body by the final assembly person. This is easy to identify as there is no paint in this crudely hand chiseled wire channel in the bottom of the lead pickup route. This is most often seen in mid to late 1954 Strat bodies. Also the 1954 bridge pickup wire route is not as deep as on 1955/56 and later models, so sometimes this route is crudely deepened with a hand chisel during final assembly.

Early (1954 to mid-1956) Ash bodies in Sunburst were done differently. In this case, the yellow is not stained, but is sprayed like a Gibson-type Sunburst finish. That's why 1954 to mid-1956 Fender Ash body Strat sunburst's yellow looks "brighter" than later Alder yellow stained Sunburst finishes. This process created a lot more production work. Not only was the yellow sprayed, but the Ash body also had to be "pore filled" (sealed) before spraying the Sunburst. Since Ash is an "open-pore" wood (unlike Alder), not using a pore-filler sealer leaves a final finish with considerable "sink". This occurs when the finish dries and sinks into the open pores of the wood, leaving a finish with many dimples. To stop this, a pore filler consisting of fine sand mixed in a thick solution is brushed (or sprayed) on the bare wood. After some dry time, the excess pore filler can be scraped or wiped off leaving material in the pores of the wood, thus filling them. After some more dry time, the body can be sealed with lacquer and the color finish can be applied. This process was always used by Fender on Ash bodies from 1950 to the present.

Note there is an exception to the sprayed yellow sunburst rule in 1954. The first two months of Strat production (March-April 1954), there was NO yellow in the sunburst! The two-tone sunburst's center area was actually just a natural Ash wood color, making a "one-color" sunburst. The amber brown of the sunburst was sprayed around the edge of the body, leaving the natural Ash center as the "yellow" part of the two-tone sunburst. This changed by May 1954 to having the yellow center of the sunburst sprayed, giving a more vibrant sunburst finish.

Back to the yellow stain in 1956 and later. Since it was used for Alder Sunburst bodies, sometimes you don't see it on custom color finishes. But again, most times you do. Fender was a production shop that produced mostly Alder Sunburst finished bodies. Hence they just stained all Alder bodies with the yellow, allowing them greater production flexibility. Therefore most custom color bodies have a yellow stained body too. After all, you're not gonna see the yellow on a custom color body, so what's the difference? Fender just stained all Alder bodies yellow and figured out later which ones would be custom colors. Again, in most cases Fender also still used a sealer ("Fullerplast") in custom color finishes too. The custom color spraying process wasn't different from sunbursting till after the sealer step. This simplified the production process, and made Fender quick to react to market demands for Sunburst or custom colored bodies.

FWIW, your still chasing your tail if it doesn't have the innards...but good luck anyway


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:03 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:35 pm
Posts: 42
Yes I am familiar with the online stuff like guitar HQ which got this information from another site.
This is a solid color so the sunburst info is not that relevant, but sometimes helpful.

The guitar innards unfortunately can never be used unless they are unmolested.
About 99.9% of pickups, switches harnesses, scratchplates are altered and unsoldered at some stage since 50's or 60's, so if that happened, you cannot rely on them. So I always ignore the pickguard and co unless unmolested. They can be anything from anywhere.
Body tool marks, Finishes, undercoats, writings (especially still under fullerplast) etc are way more helpful. One piece bodies are usually quite a give-away that it is old etc./ To me these things are arguably way more informative as it is unalterable.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:21 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Detailed photographs shot from every conceivable angle would be a BIG help......

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:43 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
Quote:
To me these things are arguably way more informative as it is unalterable.


Everything is possible to alter from its original state on any man made product.

The reason the SB finish info is of particular use is, nearly all custom color axes of the early era began life as a SB. A 54 would not have the same SB finish elements as a 56/7/8/9. So, if you're trying to remove the poly, start from the middle under the pickguard and work out. If you hit yellow (could be a late 54).

What color/colors are below the poly, since you suspect it was a custom color?

Q#4: All pre-CBS bodies had nail holes in the body.

I was referring to original components when speaking of the innards. Most people generally only fix/replace what breaks. Sure if it was a passed around 54 maybe it saw its share of alterations, repaints, neck replacements, etc.


Last edited by sfceric64 on Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1954 Fender Stratocaster Questions
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:15 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
retnev wrote:

To stratele52:
How many pages are devoted to the 54 in that book and is it pretty in-depth ? I would like to get it if is in-depth - Thanks!

l.


Just few, not very in-depth for what you ask .

This one is better and less expensive .

Hal Leonard : The Fender Stratocaster Paperback
By A.R. Duchossoir

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... Paperback+–+1994+By+A.R.+Duchossoir


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: