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Post subject: Happened again
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:50 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:53 pm
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Remember i said when my GT100 started doing the dropout issue recently i had the handle off so i could reach inside and pushing on that ribbon cable stopped it? Well, it started again today and just like last time a reboot did not help. Took the handle off again and pushed on that cable and again it stopped dropping out and worked perfectly. I am now positive this is a hardware issue, however i cann't be sure it;s the cable. It could simply be that pushing on it moves the board slightly and affects some solder joint elsewhere unrelated to the ribbon cable. As you may recall i cut the cable plug off a few months ago and soldered the wires directly to the pins. It did it about 6 weeks later and then i reflowed the solder joints at every pin and now today still did it. The other end of the plug isn't a removable one so i haven't messed with that but i may just do that side too.

In any case the point is there IS a bad connection somewhere that causes this issue and i still think the ribbon is likeliest. Probably the side i have yet to do anything to. I have a tuner pedal that has a board to board plug in multipin connector that cause it to stop working 3 times and i hit the solder joints each time which fixed it. After the 3rd time it worked ever since. These connectoprs, both board to board plugin types and those using ribbon are incredibly problematic. I just hoped they fixed this insane issue in the GTX. And by the way, i believe this issue also causes the tone to sound less than what it sounds like normally. It seems like when i rectify the issue pushing on that ribbon it not only stops dropping out but the tone seems stronger. So it likely has incremental degrees of this problem which when lesser cause tonal degradation and at worse starts the dropout issue. I have noticed this amp at times sounding very different in a bad way and i now believe it's the same issue as the dropout issue that's just manifesting itself to a lesser degree. Enough to affect tone quality but not enough to drop out.


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:06 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:53 pm
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Heres a somewhat surprising update. I hit all the solder joints at the pins on the other side of the ribbon which has a non removable plug. It appears to be a plug which is male rather than the typical female plug with pins being on the board. So the plug's pins are soldered to the board. I hit every solder joint and when i played the amp i was surprised to hear the tone quite different than usual. It sounds very notably thicker/fatter and more solid. In fact, i tried it with the G12T100 celestion i have been using with it for a long time and also with the stock speaker. The stock speaker actually sounds much better now. We'll see if the dropout issue stops which will take a couple months to be sure at least. But the amp has always been very temperamental as far as tone and some days sounds tinny and others much fatter and smoother. As i have said i think the dropout issue and the tone issue are one and the same manifesting differently depending on the degree to which the offending connection is compromised. I'll keep this thread updated as i find new things. But at this point i'm starting to become quite sure that it is indeed this ribbon cable and it's connections at the plugs that are causing a lot of mayhem for a lot of owners. Judging by the way the amp now sounds fatter and more solid than it ever has, i think it's gotta be that. And it could be it's THAT side where the issues happen, the end that terminates at the controls board. Fender in the past has actually said it was a ribbon cable issue, so i wonder if on the new GTX they simply had it manufactured so the ribbon is soldered directly to the boards with no plugs.


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:33 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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More updating. This is really strange, but after playing the amp a bit i'm realizing the tone is way different now. So much so that things i couldn't stand before are now very usable or the settings have to be changed a lot. There seems top be a abundance of low mids, maybe too much. But it will take a while to know because i have to almost relearn how to tweak the amp! I'll give you an example.....the bright switch on the bassbreaker model. I use the high gain version of the BB and keep the gain a noon. Just sounds better to me than the mid gain model with the gain way up. Anyways, i always felt the bright switch on the BB model really did what i wanted to hear from that model. It added highs in a way i really liked. But i never use it because while the TYPE of high end it gives i love, theres WAY too much of it. If you turn the gain up more he bright switch has less effect till when the gain is on 10 the BS has no effect. But at noon where i like the gain to be it has way way too much brightness. What i'm getting at here is since i reflowed the solder joints this morning on the control board side of the ribbon cable, it now adds just the right amount of highs ! It sounds great, just like i wanted. I'm sure it adds the same actual amount, but because there is so much more low mids in the tone since the fix, it doesn't over brighten and thin out the tone like before. If i just leave my patches how they were before i did this it sounds way muddy. No wonder this amp always seemed too bright to me in the past unless i kept the treble and other brightness settings low.

It's crazy, but it's like a different amp. In one way i don't like it completely because the low mids can be over beraing and muddy up the tone. But as i said it allows me to brighten up the tone in way i couldn't before and that seems like it actually makes it a good thing. But it's too early to tell and it will take time and a lot of tweaking and relearning the way the tonal balance seems to have changed. But i think once i get it down it's gonna be better, especially in a band mix at stage volume. This really speaks to the tonal changes this amp seems to go thru on a regular basis. And who was it.....i forget, but another member here just posted the other day that his GT's tone all of a sudden changed for the better the other day. Gotta be those ribbon cable connections at the boards !


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:10 pm
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oczad wrote:
I have noticed this amp at times sounding very different in a bad way and i now believe it's the same issue as the dropout issue that's just manifesting itself to a lesser degree. Enough to affect tone quality but not enough to drop out.


I think u might be on to something here...btw, I'm the other member who thought his amp was sounding way better...but i said that kinda "in jest"....it was more of a nod to my newly acquired Player Strat...
But anyway, I've been maybe one of the few who have really loved this amp tone-wise since day one...to me, it's the best all-around amp short of the kemper, fractal ilk, which I've yet to try
And I am coming off the old mustang 3v2, which is universally loved...and to me, it's never even been close...the GT blows it away in every tonal aspect...
So I've always been surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reviews for the GT...I mean people can't be hearing things so differently, could they? Well, I mean , inasfaras taste is concerned....ok...but there should be some generalities we could mostly agree on... "concensus", if u will...
So what's happening here? Maybe it has something to do with what u have discovered ....or something along those lines
To your point, another thing I've noticed with the GT since day 1, besides the plethora of soft/hardware issues, and easily the most frustrating, is that the amp sounds different on any given day...seemingly not able to retain its settings for patches u create....don't want to repeat everything here again
Suffice to say, that maybe you're on to something...could explain both the negative reviews for those with a more "advanced case" of the issue....and my problems with the occasional tonal fluctuations....maybe my amp "holds on to it's tone long enough" for me to notice how great it can sound...
Another factor, is that perhaps not everyone is changing the default amp settings that are set at the factory, which are really a tone-killer...I've noticed that even in youtube reviews, etc. where the reviewers fail to address this problem...
which is totally normal...u wouldn't expect that a Fender amp would be shipped out of the factory set at its worst-sounding setting...but that's the case....it'll take too long for me to expand on that here...
but yeah, I'm hoping that the GTX update will address all these issues....


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:38 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I have long been thinking that the reasons for the wide gap in user reviews was due to this. I wasn't sure what "this" was till recently but i knew it wasn't the typical amp sounds good one day bad the next scenario that all amps have due to our ears changing day to day or the weather or whatever the heck is responsible. This has been huge differences at times and as i said earlier, i REALLY know when my amp was sounding thin and nasty and reached inside thru the handle i had removed and pressed on that ribbon cable only to hear the tone instantly change.

I just have no doubt this is one of the reasons for the negative reviews. Obviously it's not the only one. I could go on but why bother, a lot of it is just user error or lack of ability to find thier tone etc etc etc. I'm with ya on the MIII vs the GT. I had the MIII for 5 years and really liked it, but i jumped on the GT the day it came out because while the MIII was great in many ways, tonewise it had plently of flaws that i hoped the GT would improve upon and it did. But it really didn't have me till the big oct '18 update. Thats when i felt it was close to what i expected from it in the first place. But then the changing tone issues have always been a thorn in my side and now this seems to have fixed it. But as always, time will tell because you know how that often goes. I may wake up tomorrow, plug in and this awesomness may be gone. It's amazing tho.....i always knew there was some sort of issue making this amp too bright because at times that would go away leaving a much fatter smoother tone. After this fix however i's even more like that then ever. Whole different amp.


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:11 am
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oczad wrote:
I day it came out because while the MIII was great in many ways, tonewise it had plently of flaws that i hoped the GT would improve upon and it did. But it really didn't have me till the big oct '18 update. Thats when i felt it was close to what i expected from it in the first place.


Yes...that's true 4me as well...I did notice a change in the amp's overall sound...even "feel" maybe to a certain extent...i noted this in a post sometime later...if I'm not mistaken, however, Fender hadn't mentioned doing any changes to the sound...just fixes & additions...but I hear what I hear...


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:01 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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tele-de-fender wrote:

Yes...that's true 4me as well...I did notice a change in the amp's overall sound...even "feel" maybe to a certain extent...i noted this in a post sometime later...if I'm not mistaken, however, Fender hadn't mentioned doing any changes to the sound...just fixes & additions...but I hear what I hear...


Fender like any manufacturer is careful about what they tell you. To admit the improved or fixed something is to admit it needed fixing or improvement. The criteria for whether or not they will tell you something they did i am sure is all about their strategy in keeping thier customers from coming to negative conclusions. In the case of tonal improvement, i doubt they will mention it unless it's extremely obvious because otherwise they know what will happen....many customers won't hear the improvement and will complain that fender said they improved it yet they hear no difference. Put yourself in thier position and it;s easier to understand why they will tell you certain things and not others. It's all about holding on to thier reputation and not digging thier own grave. I can see it from thier perspective for sure, but thats not to say i'm usually happy about it. For example, i want a GTX but what if that dropout issue is not fixed. If i ask them as you know, they will never say yes because that would be to admit the GT had a issue they never fixed and allowed thier customers to remain screwed. I know that for a fact because i DID call and ask that and the rep never admitted to it.

Point is, no matter the issue or feature or whatever u are talking about, fender's reply will ALWAYS with few exceptions be strewn with lies thru omission to insure thier agenda which is the bottom line. It's big business. There are always going to be a few employees that will spill the beans here and there tho, like a rep that once admitted to me tyhe speaker was developed as a compromize to guitar tone in order that music thu bluetooth streaming would sound good. Or the one that admittted there was a issue with a ribbon cable. But most of the time they say what is determined to be the safe answer.


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:47 pm
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This is extremely interesting some pics would be awesome btw :roll: Hopefully you have found the problem that would be great! I also have noticed some days the amp sounds terrible and others sounds killer and thought I was going crazy :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:07 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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The offending connector/board appears to be the end that terminates on the board with all the controls on it. So all you would have to do upon opening it is look for the ribbon cable on the left side of the amp (while facing the amp as you would when standing in front of it looking at it) and you will see the solder connections where the cable terminates. If you wanted to try this you would need a pretty small tip on your iron and flow a bit of solder to each solder pad where the pins protrude. You will want a magnifier, i use an eye loupe. Once done u need to look at it closely with the magnifier for solder bridges you may have caused and stray pieces and remove it all and also remove excess flux because if it;s not left clean it may cause a lot of noise due to high resistance patch all the debris may cause. In any case, doing that is what changed the amps tone hopefully permanently and hopefully cured the dropout issue too. I'll see if i can get a shot thru the handle hole and post it.


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:32 pm
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Reminds me of one of the car shows I watch where this team of guys specialize in rebuilding Mitsubishis into race cars. They said it is standard practice to install a whole bunch of extra ground wires in the electrical system because it is proven to increase horsepower in those cars.


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:03 am
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I use an Ottlite that I modded over to LED with a huge mag glass on it :P Anyway so you are saying from the handle access with the amp facing you or speaker pointing at you to the left side?

So far left or right ribbon cable in this pic or is it visible?
https://imgur.com/a/ofRsVbL


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:41 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:53 pm
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It's not the main one in the pic, it's the one thats to it's left that you just see a small part of. And it's not the end of it in the pic, it;s the other end that terminates at the long board that the tone controls are on. The end u see in the pic is the one i bypassed with small pieces of wire but that didn't change the tone and the dropouts continued. We shall see how reflowing the solder at the other end does as far as dropouts, but the fact the tone changed (and so far has not changed back) tells me thats also likely what was causing the dropouts depending on the resistance the bad joint caused. (which likely changes over time due to vibrations, heat, etc)


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:23 am
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Definitely would make sense cause that sounds like its the tone stack you are referring to having a bad connection. You can make your own ribbon cables as well so I might make one with better connectors and such. I will definitely check it out but will likely wait to reflow or anything like that till I get a new hot air gun / soldering station.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003TC8EQS/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_mKVpEb1C2PV1F


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:22 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I wouldn't bother making a new one for a couple reasons. First is i no longer think it's the connectors/cable. I think it's the solder joints at the board. Everthing i have done so far points to that. Second, the thing that made the difference was on the end that is NOT a removable connector. It appears that the connector is male and the pins do not just go into a female jack on the board but that the pins from the male connector are soldered directly to the board. And that appears to be where the issue is. Your best bet is to reflow the pin connections at the board. Better yet, get some flux and very fine solder wick. Dip the wick in the flux and pull the solder from the pin connections and reflow them with quality lead solder. I think a lot of issue like this today are due to lead free solder.


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Post subject: Re: Happened again
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:28 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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By the way, if you want a dirt cheap solder station do some research into Hakko 936 clones. The Hakko was a great and simple station that lasted long heated up fast and was just a great station. They stopped making them and a bunch of clones started cropping up because people were clammering for the old hakko 936. I had 2, one at work which is still there 15 years alter (tho I'm not) and one of my own which a part died on after many years of use and i couldn't get another because they stopped making them. Anyways, the clones were anwhere from just ok or cheap to great and as good as the hakko was. If you do some research u should be able to find which ones are good and they go really cheap. like $20-30 i believe.


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