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Post subject: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:39 am
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Aspiring Musician
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I may have narrowed down the issue so many have where the sound cuts out. Just to be clear that we are talking about the same thing, you hit a chord/note and the sound drops to about 1/2 as loud then as you let it sustain it jumps back up in volume a second or 2 later. Hit the strings again and it drops again for a few seconds. Anyways, mine only does it maybe once every few days or week till the last few days when it started happening every day several times. So last time it did it instead of rebooting the amp which fixes it most (tho not all) the time, this time i left it on and tried everything i could think of to see if anything stopped it and note what that thing is to narrow down the possible reasons. I tried different patches both my own and stock. Tried every setting in the menu turning them on and off. Global EQ, footswitch settings, even tuner view. No change. Tried removing every effect from a preset and still nothing, it just kept cutting out. Tried changing every setting in a patch....not change. Then i tried something that stopped it....turning the physical master up then down !

So it appears it's the physical master thats the problem. The pot itself is likely responsible because it's a very cheap part. Maybe Tim can chime in, as he understands the digital domian which is greek to me. I can't seperate the physical part from a digital issue. I will wait till it happens again and see if the master fixes it again. If so i will go into the amp and have a look at the pot and see if it's possible to replace it with something of quality, tho it's unlikely that can physically be accomplished w/o putting the pot elsewhere and sending wires to it from the control board.

Anyways, at least it's looking like a possible reason is now known and hopefully fender will take note.


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:18 am
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D@mn....started again today and this time moving the master had no effect. Had to reboot. This is really bad because now that it's doing it every day i can no longer rely on it to gig with. I stopped gigging regularly years ago be still play out occasionally sitting in with friends bands or to do parties or jams. In any case the more important the event the less i can chance this happening. But for others that do gig regularly this make the amp unusable for that unless they are not opposed to being strangled by thier bandmates.

At this point i think fender should discontinue the GT series or fix it, but to keep selling them like this is almost criminal. There are owners of brand new recent purchases with this issue so regardless of fender saying they fixed it, it doesn't appear to be fixed. In the past i even opened the amp when it was doing this and chopsticked every part while listening to try and find a bad connection but nothing. Must be in the digital domain. I remember the old MIII had the same issue but only with one model, the tweed twin. And others had mentioned that too, so if fender is listening maybe that's a clue. This is really frustrating.


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:54 pm
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oczad wrote:
At this point i think fender should discontinue the GT series or fix it, but to keep selling them like this is almost criminal.

Not the first time something like this happened: Link


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:07 pm
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I remember that, but i never had the issue in my V2 MIII. I have heard some say that v2 fixed it but some said not. I imagine if was a bit of both....probably fixed it for the most part. Thats was a far better amp as far as dolid reliability goes, but the GT has far more features and much better tone IMO. But thats not much good if you can't use it.


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:57 am
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It is things like this that make me hesitant to seriously consider the new Tonemaster Twin/Deluxe, as they are modeling amps.

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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:27 am
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Can't blame u there. My GT is now having this issue so often it's unusable to gig with. Just turned it on this morning and within 10 minutes it started again. Pretty much can't play more then an hour before it starts doing it again and i never played any sort of event thats only an hour long. So i'm likely not going to buy any more fender amps of any kind, i'm just done with being ripped off. The refuse to fix it so i refuse to give them any more $.


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:53 pm
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The Master turned up, even if its not consistent, may still be a clue. The master is the only analog control. Analog controls get crackly with rotation and cut out intermittently. But putting large signals through a crackly control usually improves the signal.
The general symptom of sound dropping, then coming back can be a connection problem in a power circuit. If it can't deliver the voltage or the signal with enough current, it lowers volume until it can provide the correct amount.
The commonest issue is in speaker connections. Power supply problems usually come with crackling. Speaker problems can occur at the jacks, plugs, speaker connection, or internal voice coil connections.
The headphone output will bypass most of these issues. Does it do it on HPs?


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:16 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I never actually use headphones but next time it happens i'll check Tim.

After it happened again and i tried the master but that time with no success, i'm thinking it's not the pot. If it was it surely would have stopped the issue after enough messing with it. Plus it does it even with the master set very low. Add to that it usually stops if i reboot and i no longer think it's the master pot. I'll tighten up the speaker connections and check the plug inside the chassis for compromised solder joints and pug tightness. Now that u mention it it does sound like it could be the output having an issue passing voltage past a certain level. Better yet, i'll wait till the next time it does it before going in the amp and yank on the speaker connections/wire and see if that affects it


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:20 am
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Ok, so it happened again as it's been doing daily lately. And this time i tugged on the speaker wire and turned the master every which way. Had to reboot to stop it. Then something occurred to me that makes me think it IS a firmware issue. In particular maybe a amp thing that all models have in common but some more then others, maybe some not at all. For example, some have preset maters, some don't. Same with some other things like presence. Maybe one of those things in the firmware causes it and thats why some people aren't troubled by it, some less so, and some more.

But heres what occurred to me.....this issue happened to me maybe once or twice a month and now it's a daily thing. A light bulb went off this time and it occurred to me that right at the time this started happening daily i switched to using a different model ! And remember me saying i had the same issue with the old MIII on just one model, the tweed twin? And i wasn't the only one that had this issue withbthe tweed twin on the old mustang line. So all that being the case, it would seem this issue is model dependent which means there is some amp setting in the firmware that some models have and some don't and some may be set differently and not be as much of an issue. This would explain everything....why some don't have the issue and some do and some do but only rarely. I used the bassbreaker model pretty much exclusively till this started happening daily, at which time i had changed to using the friedman model regularly and not using the BB anymore. Guess i'll go back to the BB and see how long before it does it again.

So to those for whom this is a daily issue, is there a particular model you use almost all the time and if so what is it? And to those without this issue what model do u use mostly? And those to whom it happens but only rarely, what model ? And to anyone who uses a lot of models and never uses the same on most of the time, do u notice the issue happening at times a lot and other times only rarely?


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:59 am
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Well, so much for the idea it's the models. Started again after playing only the model i had much less of the issue with and it happened within an hour. So rebooted and no joy even, tho it then stopped by itself after a minute of playing it. I have this curse where i just cannot let something like this go without finding the fix. I wish i could, i'm pretty sick of this amp.


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:23 pm
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Well, you certainly are hound dogging this thing. Its a shame that they won't release the GT schematics. I'm sure there are factory folks laughing at the hounds as we bark up the wrong tree. They know whats going on, but won't give us a scent we can work with. Makes them smell like Turkeys. Surely they don't think anyone's going to copy this lemon.
One of the other things that occurred to me yesterday is the power amp in it. I haven't seen a gutshot of your amp and I'm wondering if it has a ICEPower module in it. These are designed to turn themselves down when they get hot, then come back.
Does the recovery time stay the same when it starts working again?
Does a cold soak outside overnight put off the symptom recurring?


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:43 pm
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I don't know about that, but i suppose i could put a fan on it next time and see if it reverts back w/o rebooting it. But generally don't thermal shutoffs stay off for a time then once cooled come back? This is hit a note and it's at 1/2 volume for about a second till the level drops to a certain point then volume jumps back up. This seems more like what you were suggesting before about being more like blocking due to a hotter signal than it can handle maybe due to a resistive connection that normally should be a dead short. Solder joint or connector etc.

Fender released schematics of the old mustang line. Not sure why this one remains locked up.


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:58 pm
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come to think of it, next time i could try this just to eliminate the possible issue of the signal being too hot in the analog domain. Plug a device with a level control into the send/return next time it does this and drop the level and see if it stops. If so it's possible that a device with seperate in/out levels could fix the issue by dropping the level from the send and jacking up the device's output to compensate and bring the volume back up at the return. By the way, a possibly related issue also plagues my amp. The low end farts out and the amp just kinda loses it is i raise the master high enough like stage volume and don't cut the lows a lot. I have been using the global low cut 1 to stop that but i still have to be careful. Just cutting lows doesn't work because by the time it stops doing it the tone is too lacking in low end, and i am not in any way a big low end kinda player. I like a balanced sound. Low cut 1 works ok i guess because they used a narrow Q at just the right frequency or such. But it;s not a 100% satisfactory fix.


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:16 am
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If you could post a pic of the guts, I might be able to tell if it is an ICE module. But, regardless, with the added symptom of bass farts, it sounds like its trying to save itself from incinerating.
The ice modules have no real heatsink, just the board copper. When they get hot, they turn themselves down. Other types use feedback to the power supply to save themselves from overcurrents.
The consistent drop in level and the consistent recovery time points to a protection circuit in operation.
If you can run the signal out of the effects loop and run it to a different power amp, does it still do it when the Mustang power amp is bypassed?


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Post subject: Re: Finally a clue at least as to drop out issue
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:10 am
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Next time i'm in there i'll shoot a pic. But heres a couple things I think may go against the possibility of this being circuit protection. First, it would have to get hot enough to trigger it instantly from cold because i can turn the amp on, hit a low note and if the master is up enough to where it will fart, it will do so with the amp dead cold. Also, it doesn't do the same exact thing with the bass issue as with the cutting out. The cutting out drops the volume which does sound like possible protection. (except for the cold thing i mentioned) But the bass just breaks up really bad like the speaker is blown but not a volume reduction. Also, if it IS heat related why would rebooting stop it? Because after reboot it usually stops and i can play it loud as i want and i won't do it again for hours to a day.


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