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Post subject: GT2 and a few questions.
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:39 pm
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OK. From earlier posts, I had a GT1 on loan. Time to return amp and bought a GT2 for myself.

Here are the questions.

1. I am assigned to lead and only guitar in my project. The GT1 holds up to keys and a solid state bass amp. I've no doubt the GT2 will do even better. But, we had a guy sit in last week with a smaller tube and I just couldn't keep up. Is the sound wave different or something? I'd have felt safer with a very small tube combo. He just seemed more in front. So, am I OK with all solid state/digital stuff? (We are a bar/cover band. So, not replicating Atlanta Rhythm Section).

2. Is there a nuance with solid state and digital? It seems the old solid states (with the exception of Fender and a JC-120's) were too harsh. If there is a nuance there, suggestions on how to address it? To my ear, the GT2 can sound "... breathy" if that makes sense. Anything to push that sound up front?

3. I am now leads, so I want to put a boost pedal in. Should I do that at line in/line out? That seems after all the wizardry of the GT2. Or, in line?

Thanks,

JKC


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Post subject: Re: GT2 and a few questions.
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:48 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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What is a GT2? Or a GT1 for that matter? I think u may be in the wrong forum.

As to tube vs solid state, tube amps are much louder given a stated wattage. EX: a to keep up with a 20 watt tube amp you may need a 100 watt SS amp. Just an estimate but u get the idea. However, if you by chance are talking about the GT200, that should be plenty loud for even a fairly loud band and depending on what u mean by smaller tube amp, it should keep up with a tube amp in the 30 watt or less range. But ther other thing is how you have it set, and even what guitar u are using vs whet he was. There's a slew of possible reasons besides volume. Softer more overdriven tones tend to get covered by another rig who's sound is set for a brighter harder edge sound.

The only other possibility i can think of is i believe the 200 is stereo and when the GT line was released some people found the stereo models (all but the GT100) had no cut and were too processed sounding. That right there will cause your sound to get lost in the mix, and the GT40 and 200's were the models that got all the negative reviews regarding that sound. My GT100 has no such issues and can cut like a tube amp easily as long as you know what u r doing in adjusting it. I'd never buy a stereo amp thats had any sort of default stereo processing that cannot be turned off the GTs supposedly had/have. I say "had/have" because i'm not sure if they did away with that in the latest firmware with all the negative reviews.


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Post subject: Re: GT2 and a few questions.
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:06 am
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Yep, by 2, I mean 200. So, to address your comments.

I agree on stereo... Especially when the cones are that close... And which one do you MIC if you ever have to? Can't I just switch out wires and make it mono?

And I am telling you, the GT1 (100) got lost once a tube amp came in the room. I don't think it is a question of power (or if so, I'm not articulating it correctly). The tube amp (not a super impressive one, by the bye), just pushed way out in front. My tones were Strato with TX Specials. His were Strato and not sure pickups, but a gajillion pedals. Boss Board.

But one of my questions is... To you and all... What if I am playing with all SS and all digital? Keys (are super rich and full). Anyone done this?

Talking about set-up. Maybe fool with the EQ up front? You mentioned that in another post.

I cannot hear the proverbial grass grow, but I can hear good sound and I can hear when it gets lost in a mix. I really want to make this 30 pounder work and retire my huge tube twins.

Thanks kids,

JKC


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Post subject: Re: GT2 and a few questions.
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:31 am
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The amp's power rating is total power. That is split in two by the stereo. But two 60 watt amps aren't as loud as a 120 watt amp. Especially in stereo, they don't have the dynamic range.
It is full stereo effects. You need to mic both channels.
The power is not the issue when you are getting lost in the mix. Its the gain. Its what the amp does with its power.
This is the multiplication capability of the amp. Input sensitivity is the spec that is sometimes used. It can be misleading, however because gain is different at different frequencies.
I have measured hundreds of amps using the same settings and get unique results from the output of each one.
I have categorized them by comparative output level and contour shape.
Acoustic and Bass amps = .1VAC RMS
Guitar rhythm amps = 1 to 5 VAC rms
Guitar lead amps = 5 to 28 VAC RMS
These are chosen to place the instruments into the proper dynamic relationship on stage. The main tradeoff is you get good gain or good sustain, but not both in the same amp. So a bass amp will stay dynamically in the background with low gain but excellent sustain. A lead amp will cut through the mix with percussive notes and little sustain.
The gain is set internally as the sum of the gain of each amp stage.
In a digital amp, you can set the internal gain where ever you want. However, high internal gains can make the effects sound bad. If you use a clean boost pedal or an EQ pedal that has a level control, you can push the A/D converter in the Mustang harder for cleaner brighter tone and the increased gain you need to cut through.

While a watt is a watt is a watt, tube and transistor amps do work differently and consequently sound different.
A tube amp power supply operates at very high voltage and little current.
A SS supply runs at lower voltages, but much higher currents.
Current is what does the work. Higher voltages speed up the work.
So a SS supply can deliver relatively huge amounts of current compared to a tube amp.
I have a custom test unit that pulses audio to the IHF standard for peak power measurements. 50msec on / 480 msec off times to recharge the PS. A 1kHz signal is injected and the peak output voltage at the end of the 50 msec burst is measured on the oscilloscope.
A SS supply can usually double its RMS power ratings with single channel bursts. Especially in stereo amps where it its designed capacity is to run two amps. There is very little voltage sag between the beginning of the burst and the end, a very stiff supply and a very stable sound.
But that doesn't necessarily make good music. While a lot of current can produce a large excursion of the voice coil, the high voltage of a tube amp makes for a faster, more responsive sound. The voltage sags in the power supply and the louder you play, the less gain available from a starving supply. The overdriven amp will demand more and ripple from the sagging power supply will show up as rippling chainsaw buzz at max power.
Run through my pulser, the tube amps show a 25-25% sag during the burst. This is much easier on the ears
This is the major difference between tube and SS amps. The louder the tubes go the better it sounds. When SS starts to clip at max power, its over.
So its hard to make a lead SS amp that sounds as good or as high gain as a tube amp. At max power the tubes are just gettin revved up, but the SS is done.


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Post subject: Re: GT2 and a few questions.
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:10 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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JCreasy wrote:

And I am telling you, the GT1 (100) got lost once a tube amp came in the room.


I don't know what to tell u aside from the fact i used a celestion G12T100 speaker and find the stock speaker utterly horrible. It's stiff and harsh sounding so i suppose if you add enough top and presence to cut thru it's so harsh and stiff u can't take it so you don't use that much presence and end up lost in the mix. Just a theory, but again, the speaker is crap. It does NOT sound or feel like real guitar tone with that think in the box. And second, i spent a lot of time learning the amp like the back of my hand having owned the amp for 2 years. Maybe those are the reasons, but whatever the reasons, at that gig i mentioned the other guy was using a fender bassman RI and i easily not only held my own but my tone was MORE up front than his and better. We both agreed on that. But as i have said, these amps have issues and I fixed at least one of them permanently and the other at least temporarily b4 that gig. Whatever the reason my GT100 can hold it's own again a tube amp just as tho it were another tube amp if it;s working properlyn thru a proper speaker. Many if not most won't believe that but hey....after gigging for decades i feel like tone in a band mix is second nature to me and i know when it works. To many variables between you, me, your amp, my amp, your guitars, my guitars, and everyone else's everything to find one reason for whatever you are experiencing. Wish i could help you more but that's all i got.


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Post subject: Re: GT2 and a few questions.
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:11 am
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Thanks for the detailed feedback. I am going to have to read and study several times but it makes sense.

I did get a plain boost pedal to jump up for leads. (Exotic EP). I did not want to dial in and assign a channel for that because I will already have plenty going on with that footswitch and banks since this project requires lots of effects.

You mention your years of experience in live bands and I have that too... Except, then, I was rhythm and my Mesa Heartbreaker very easily covered it. Plus, I really only needed two channels and did the rest on my guitar. Ah, the salad days! I still don't know how I lugged that thing around!

In any event, thanks for taking the time to give me that input.

JKC


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