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Post subject: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:38 am
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This is not really limited to Fender Mustang GT amp and probably a naive question but the GT series seem to be an ideal platform for it.

I have two Fender Mustang amps, a Mustang I v2 and a GT-100 and both have emitted hums which I have not been able to eliminate. It pretty much started with the Mustang I v2 when I noticed a hum when I wasn't touching my guitar's strings using certain presets. My instinct was that it was an earthing (ground) problem so I tested my guitar and sure enough, there was a poor earth. It was one I had made myself - it is my own designed body but was based on a Stratocaster circuitry but with a fixed bridge which presented problems when trying to find a reliable earth. I eventually sorted it out but the hum persisted. I then tried all my non-active guitars which include one other I had made, a Fender Stratocaster, a Squier Stratocaster and a vintage Daion Strat copy and all had the same problem and none of them had any earth issues. I tried every lead I have and not one made any difference.

I then tried the guitars in my two other amps, a Peavey Classic VTX and a Peavey Vypyr 60 and whilst there was a very slight hum, it was nothing compared to the Mustang I v2.

I contacted the dealer who suggested trying the amp in different rooms (which I had already done to some extent) and there was some variation but no elimination. Online searches yielded little hard results but suggested that this was a 'feature'.

Fast forward to last week and I bought a Mustang GT-100 and noticed a very similar hum. I should point out that unlike with the Mustang I v2, the GT-100 has a number of pedals attached and that whilst there is general hum, there is also a hum which I isolated to the power supply which daisy chained to my DigiTech Jamman SoloXT looper pedal. I replaced that with the DigiTech power supply and the hum dropped but again, was not eliminated and there was still the original hum when the looper was disconnected.

Anyway, this is a very long way of coming around to my question; is it possible to have a post effect which can filter out unwanted noise? I used to have a application/plug-in on my old Mac G4 (which I haven't even booted up for over a year) called SoundSoap which could sample noise (i.e. line with no signal) and then eliminate it from the line plus signal. I'm no code warrior but this would seem like a simple mathematical function and could be an essential first aid tool in problematic situations - not to mention rescuing me from certain insanity.

Given the GT series signal flow, and to reiterate, I would have thought that this would be the ideal platform for such an effect. Maybe I am missing something obvious but I would be interested to know if it could be implemented or if not, why not.


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:57 am
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In you're in USA/Canada, try the amp in the newest
house/apartment bathroom you can find.
New bathrooms should have the best grounding
money can buy. If hum is gone, it's likely a home-electric
flaw.

Here is a software plugin of
a 32 band EQ, which might help pinpoint the
frequencies to filter.

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=1366

Single coil pickups can be a problem,
and keeping all knobs and controls in the session
hardware to a maximum
7 out-of-10 could help.

Give the search engine:

guitar hum "bandpass filter" and also
guitar hum "notch filter"

for many related topics.
Cheers


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:44 am
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Thanks for the reply.

I'm in the UK and earthing is standard in all homes. I've checked out the whole house and all my gear with a multimeter and earth tester and I cannot find a fault. The house is about 200 years old (I'm not saying that the wiring is!) so it is possible that there is some idiosyncratic feature which 18th century architects and builders didn't take into consideration but otherwise, it is not an earth problem. I'm not a domestic electrician but I was a helicopter radio mechanic for nine years so I have some electrical knowledge.

I have various pickups in my guitars, the ones I made myself are split coil switchable from series to humbucker, my Fender Stratocaster is a Fat Strat with a humbucker at the bridge. Yes, there is a reduction in hum but it is not eliminated.

It appears to increase when my guitar is near my body and from what I have read, that is not uncommon. Anyway, for the time being, I have a workaround which is to play barefoot and keep one or two toes on my MGT-4.

As for my actual question, yes, I know that there are numerous plugins for DAWs and I could mess around with EQ but firstly, I am not really talking about using my gear to play through my Mac, I'm talking about every day use and I tend to use my looper pedal for on the fly composition rather than having to get bogged down in Logic. Secondly, it was kind of a suggestion that something like SoundSoap could be implemented as a quick and simple solution for noise problems, especially in a live situation.


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:42 pm
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Two thoughts,

1.) Do you have the USB cable running from the amp to computer? If so, try unplugging the cable, or if you don't have it connected, try connecting one. Sometimes you can introduce a grounding hum via USB or at times, remove a hum.

2.) Do you have an older CRT (tube) monitor? I will pick up some hum when I use single coils from the CRT monitor that is 5 feet away. (When the monitor is on.)

When you say some presets, can you give an example? Are they high gain settings?


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:37 pm
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How about a recording of what you're talking about?


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:46 pm
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No to the USB cable and no to the CRT question but thanks for the suggestions.

I only mentioned my noise issue as an introduction to the idea that I had about the possibility of a sampling noise filter - it just seemed like a good idea but evidently not shared by anybody else. I wasn't really looking to troubleshoot my own noise. I thought maybe I didn't explain myself very well so I went to find a video.

It seems that SoundSoap (which was previously developed by BIAS) is now owned by Antares so they probably own all the patents to this kind of effect but as can be seen from the video, the effect (as a DAW plugin) has already been used to eliminate ground hum.

My thought was that something like this could be added to modelling amps as an effect to deal with problems like this in situ as opposed to in a DAW. I'm sure that it could be very useful at gigs when trying to sort noise out in unfamiliar environments (as well as problematic homes like mine).



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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:24 pm
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How much of a buzz are we talking about? Hard to know without hearing a recording. Do you have all single coil pickups? Does it buzz when the guitar isn't plugged in?

To the whole effect thing to filter out buzz - no not aware of anyone that has that. Maybe someone will see your idea here and make it happen. But overall I think you're better off fixing the buzz or using an amp that doesn't buzz like that.


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:30 pm
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Please forget about my amp noise. It was just a way to introduce the topic of a sampling noise filter.


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:27 pm
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My opinion remains unchanged. You're better off getting your equipment to stop buzzing and/or use a traditional noise gate.

But maybe you'll make me eat those words if you are a designer/programmer. The concept holds water.


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:36 pm
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Okulo wrote:
Please forget about my amp noise. It was just a way to introduce the topic of a sampling noise filter.

So is this story made up? :roll: I guess you came here to make up stories about defective Fender products just to draw attention to your app? I'm sure you'll tell me you have nothing to do with making an app though. "Plausible deniability" and all that.
Okulo wrote:
I then tried the guitars in my two other amps, a Peavey Classic VTX and a Peavey Vypyr 60 and whilst there was a very slight hum, it was nothing compared to the Mustang I v2.


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:57 am
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Okulo wrote:
a hum when I wasn't touching my guitar's strings using certain presets.

Noise from high-gain presets can be tamed somewhat
by gain-staging to build the tone, rather than having
just one or two gain knobs cranked high among
the modeled gear in a preset. Since these are
accurately modeled amps (we hope) each will have
it's own noise levels. On your GT, with guitar unplugged,
crank the knobs all the way up. To get the full amp noise,
you'll have to jiggle _every_ knob, then return it to max,
and then score the amps for overall noise.

My list below starts with 03 as the noisiest,
and the last five amps were all really quiet. Perhaps you can
focus your making/moddding of presets, using the quietest amps.
The Metal 2000 amp was among the quiet ones,
a real surprise to me. )

03, 02, 09, 12, 08, 17, 14, 04, 10, 07, 06, 11, 13, 01, 05, 15, 19, 20, 16, 18

On a few of the models, bass at 10 has less noise than
when at 7, again, perhaps a sign of actual modeling
real-world characteristis/circuits. I have a GT40, so your
test results may be different, and mine are ballpark rather
than strike zone precision. Not to mention noise from certain
modeled pedals and racks should not be uniform, and thus
accounted for.
Cheers


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:43 am
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ghost_of_strings wrote:
So is this story made up? :roll: I guess you came here to make up stories about defective Fender products just to draw attention to your app? I'm sure you'll tell me you have nothing to do with making an app though. "Plausible deniability" and all that.

No, it's not made up.

I just wanted to start a conversation about an idea I had and used my own experience as a platform to start it, little knowing that it would go off on a weird tangent. I'm definitely not trying to attack the reputation of Fender, I have written an essay on my love of the Stratocaster and this is my second Fender amp. I think I already acknowledged that the noise is probably some idiosyncratic thing between the amp and my 200 year old house. The first sentence in my original post said, 'This is not really limited to Fender Mustang GT amp and probably a naive question but the GT series seem to be an ideal platform for it'. So, it was not a criticism of the amp (who has not had an untraceable noise problem with any amp?) but the amp's abilities, i.e. software effects chain, could be the ideal platform for such a feature as it seems so versatile - you know, because it is such a good amp!

No, I have nothing to do with making an app. I don't have the skills to create an app nor have I any idea how an app might be deployed in this way. I thought it might be an idea that Fender might like to consider and add in the amps effects chain.

I'm sorry for even having the idea, okay.

I will now crawl back under my stone and keep my mouth shut.

Seriously, I'm out of here.


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Post subject: Re: Sampling noise filter
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:16 am
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Better to keep talking about what matters.
Fender staff get their noses bent by criticism here,
and go silent. Better to engage, and not worry about
the occasional 'sticks and stones', we all have Fender gear,
so keep sharing accurate info, it leads to improvements.

Noise will always be an issue in audio production,
current realities need to be challenged. Great effort is applied
to de-essing, toning down sibilance, finding and filtering frequencies
that host annoying sounds that are not musical.
Fender would do well to lead in that area. Providing
a few noise-reducers in the effects chain makes sense to me.
Noises that are science based math realities will always be tough outs,

but few people notice such things when at a concert, or when
jamming hard rock/metal amps. Clean/clear tone setups are also
ours, when that's desired.
Cheers


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