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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:15 am
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I will try to put what I am saying into perspective. I taught photography at university level. Some of the students had expensive SLRs and some, humble point-and-shoot compacts. The people with the expensive cameras talked about lenses, sharpness and bokeh. The people with the simple cameras talked about photographs. In virtually every project, the people with the simple cameras took the best pictures. The guys (and they were all guys) with the Nikon 850s and Canon EOS cameras had all the gear, umpteen lenses and effects filters. The other students just had their little slip-in-the pocket cameras with minimal zoom lenses. Their *photos* were what their photography was about, not their gear or their techniques. The 'image' was the hero.

In the guitar music world there are also two types - 'guitarists', who play guitars and 'musicians', who play music. If a band has a 'hit' record, it is not because of their equipment or their 'tone', it is because their music is appealing. Music is a means of creative expression. Yes, it does now involve some technology and always has included personal preferences for instruments but they are only a means to an end, not the end itself. Music is what it is all about.

$250 spent on a good music teacher is money better spent than on an effects pedal!


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:39 am
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So people who care deeply about their tone and how it works for them are lousy players and using mediocre gear is a badge of honor because it means you are so good gear is unimportant? What u r missing is not everyone who cares about thier tone and how it works for them is a lousy player. Should i name names? Like i said, i worked for about 20 years where i dealt with 100's players many of whom who are respected world class players. They almost to a man are so anal about gear it would make your head spin. But you chimed in here to say if the audience doesn't hear it it's unimportant. Tell that to them and see what response you get. Fact is, great players are almost ALWAYS anal about gear. Go to youtube and type in the name of most any great player then after thier name type "rig rundown". When you find one with a pignose amp, a mic and a cable then we'll talk.

See, the problem here is that you saw us talking about an amp and it's faults and getting deep into it and your response was to tell us to stop pi$$ing about gear and learn to play from a holier than thou place. Talk to scott henderson about gear and watch what happens. He'll be worse than anyone here when it comes to pi$$ing about amps and guitars. But wait......maybe u r right because the boy can't play for ^%$#. :roll:


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:07 am
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Back on topic, my main issue with the sound i am getting now with V2 and a celestion 100 in the amp is that compared to my katana artist it sounds flat, or as shane would say, "not 3D sounding". Just another way IMO of saying not much harmonic content. Heres a tip that i just found worked pretty good for me to get some of that "3D" into the sound. I have tried global EQ in the past but anything i used was too bright except of course bight cut. What i did this time is add "guitar focus 1" in the global EQ then readjusted the patches to eliminate any overly brightness that caused and the end result is more 3D without that excessive brightness guitar focus 1 adds. Just another example of how tedious modelers can be to nail just what u r after. There are so many options you can fail miserably or create magic, but whatever the result you really have to explore it all and then expliore it again if it didn't work the first time. Anyways, this may or may not work for you but try it. It sure helped me get the GT closer to my katana artist in terms of pure tone quality or "3D", "harmonic complexity" etc etc. And if the day comes i can get it close to the artist, the GT may become my #1. But so far there's still much work to do to fully get there.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:47 pm
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Glad to see this thread back on the rails :lol:

I like Guitar Focus 2 myself... better mids, imho. But that's another thing that can skew presets if they are shared; what might sound just right on my GT might sound less appealing on another GT if their Global EQ is different.

I've kicked around the idea of different speakers, maybe from WGS, but I'm a basement hobbyist that doesn't play at gig volume so I wonder if it would matter much. (Those EV's aren't cheap!!!) Maybe I'd be better off saving that money for the Next Big Modeler that comes out someday.

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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:47 pm
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Yeah, if u are a basement player I'd say you'll probably PREFER the sound with the stock speaker. Because at low volume it sounds pretty good due to it's excessive top end when loud. But at low volume where tone tends to mush out that actually helps keep the top more crisp. I'm positive the reason u are able to use guitar focus 2 is also because of the fact u play at lower volumes because with the stock speaker and GF2 at anything approaching loud it would be a freaking chainsaw ! I use GF1 and a much less cutting speaker otherwise i have to keep it set to flat.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:02 pm
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oczad wrote:
Yeah, if u are a basement player I'd say you'll probably PREFER the sound with the stock speaker. Because at low volume it sounds pretty good due to it's excessive top end when loud. But at low volume where tone tends to mush out that actually helps keep the top more crisp. I'm positive the reason u are able to use guitar focus 2 is also because of the fact u play at lower volumes because with the stock speaker and GF2 at anything approaching loud it would be a freaking chainsaw ! I use GF1 and a much less cutting speaker otherwise i have to keep it set to flat.


I agree that when you start to crank it, the GF1 (and 2 of course) really start to get painfully aggressive. I audition sounds at fairly loud volume, though nothing like gig levels. Yes it makes a difference to what sounds good.

btw. just what is "guitar Focus" supposed to be - sounds like some sort of high presence to me.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:18 pm
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J4zz wrote:

btw. just what is "guitar Focus" supposed to be - sounds like some sort of high presence to me.

Yea, pretty much but i think the difference between that and brightness is the Q. Focus, whatever frequency it's centered at is probably much narrower than brightness. Personally i don't hear it as "focus", but i do like what it does which is to liven up the tone in a way i was unable to do with all the other controls including EQ's and cabs.

Focus is a hard to define thing, but the best i can describe it is you know when you have it because notes seem to be extremely seperate from each other and so well defined that you hear every note clearly even with sloppy playing. But it's more than that, i just can't find the words. But IMO it's the mark of a really great amp. Itls certainly not about a high end that allows definition. It can even happen with a dark smooth sounding tone. I'm not sure what causes it but when i was building tube amps and tweaking them ad nausium, there were times i would try something like a value swap of circuit change and all off a sudden it would have really great focus. Then of course like an idiot i'd keep tweaking trying to improve some other detail only to lose that focus. :lol: It never ends !


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:45 am
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Don't know if you guys use Logic Pro X, but hidden in there is a spectrum analyzer. If you direct inject your guitar, you get a readout of the frequency response. (It's in one of the EQ effects). The trace is superimposed on the graphic eq controls so you can easily see the characteristics of your guitar. The 'focus' is going to change depending on which guitar and which pick-up but if you play a few chords you will get an idea of the guitar's characteristic frequency response. Just look for the distinctive peaks in the trace. You just have to transfer those 'fingerprint' peaks responses to the graphic equalizer on the GT to get the best transparency. You might have to try a few different guitars and 'average' the readings and you will have to be able to identify the 'dominant' frequencies across the sonic gamut.

There is also an iOS app called 'Analyser' which gives a real-time spectrum. I've used this one very successfully to identify the feedback frequency for my acoustic and then I stick a notch in there at that frequency.

You can try the same process with a miced-up amp, although there are a lot of other variable such as microphone used, placement etc. Outside an anechoic chamber and laboratory conditions, the results won't be exact but what you are looking for is the difference in the natural character of you guitar (direct injected) and the output from your amp/speaker. The more deviation there is, the less will be the focus.

No matter what you do, with digital amps, there is always a degree of latency. Some are better than others depending on the DSP but you will never get that feeling of the notes being sucked from you fingers like you do with a good tube amp.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:10 am
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J4zz wrote:
TimsAudio wrote:
Fender GTs are a modern product that suffers from the economies of the electronic industry's relentless drive for cheaper products with more features.
The power stage is a pulse width modulated amp. This means that the output transistors are turned on all the way for short, varying pulses. The pulses are then filtered into the AC signal again and fed to the speaker.
The advantage is that the transistors don't produce any heat when saturated to fully on. A linear signal causes the transistors to act as resistive elements, causing lots of heat that needs a heat sink and or cooling fans.
The disadvantage is that the filter on the output transistors doesn't stand a chance of ever operating properly.
All passive filters rely on a stable output impedance to filter accurately. Speakers are not a stable load. They are a highly reactive load. They vary their impedance by frequency. They also produce their own voltages that throw off the accuracy of the filter. When a speaker is pushed out of its rest position, the suspension of the cone tries to push it back. This creates the reverse voltage known as back electromotive force, or back emf. The back emf invades the output filter and causes distortion and low end farting.
A well designed class AB amp from yesteryear can achieve a .004% distortion. A pwm amp is lucky to get .1%. Almost no one publishes distortion specs for their digital amps.



I googled a few specs straight off, and they had very good specs - better than you need for a guitar amp, in fact I am listening to one play some classical music on the hifi right now and it sounds good. If they are good enough for hifi, then, distortion wise, they are good enough for guitar.


J4ZZ, what was referred to, the specs you found on google? to the whole GT amplifiers included the PWM power amp or referred just to the Celestion Fender special designed speaker ? and where i can find that informations?
i wrote to Celestion technical service to know the chart / specifications of that speaker and if it can be considered a Flat response , a guitar speaker or a mid-way between the 2 cathegories as it is considered by some users , and they answered me that it’s a guitar speaker, with a relatively neutral response. It was custom built for Fender, so the specifications aren’t available in the public domain.

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:23 am
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frondizi wrote:
J4zz wrote:
TimsAudio wrote:
Fender GTs are a modern product that suffers from the economies of the electronic industry's relentless drive for cheaper products with more features.
The power stage is a pulse width modulated amp. This means that the output transistors are turned on all the way for short, varying pulses. The pulses are then filtered into the AC signal again and fed to the speaker.
The advantage is that the transistors don't produce any heat when saturated to fully on. A linear signal causes the transistors to act as resistive elements, causing lots of heat that needs a heat sink and or cooling fans.
The disadvantage is that the filter on the output transistors doesn't stand a chance of ever operating properly.
All passive filters rely on a stable output impedance to filter accurately. Speakers are not a stable load. They are a highly reactive load. They vary their impedance by frequency. They also produce their own voltages that throw off the accuracy of the filter. When a speaker is pushed out of its rest position, the suspension of the cone tries to push it back. This creates the reverse voltage known as back electromotive force, or back emf. The back emf invades the output filter and causes distortion and low end farting.
A well designed class AB amp from yesteryear can achieve a .004% distortion. A pwm amp is lucky to get .1%. Almost no one publishes distortion specs for their digital amps.



I googled a few specs straight off, and they had very good specs - better than you need for a guitar amp, in fact I am listening to one play some classical music on the hifi right now and it sounds good. If they are good enough for hifi, then, distortion wise, they are good enough for guitar.


J4ZZ, what was referred to, the specs you found on google? to the whole GT amplifiers included the PWM power amp or referred just to the Celestion Fender special designed speaker ? and where i can find that informations?
i wrote to Celestion technical service to know the chart / specifications of that speaker and if it can be considered a Flat response , a guitar speaker or a mid-way between the 2 cathegories as it is considered by some users , and they answered me that it’s a guitar speaker, with a relatively neutral response. It was custom built for Fender, so the specifications aren’t available in the public domain.

Dimitri


I was referring to class D amps in general, and the general statement from TimsAudio that "A well designed class AB amp from yesteryear can achieve a .004% distortion. A pwm amp is lucky to get .1%. Almost no one publishes distortion specs for their digital amps. "

The speaker seems to be a bit of a secret, but it sounds fairly flat to me, but a bit limited in the very high frequencies.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:29 am
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J4zz wrote:
frondizi wrote:


J4ZZ, what was referred to, the specs you found on google? to the whole GT amplifiers included the PWM power amp or referred just to the Celestion Fender special designed speaker ? and where i can find that informations?
i wrote to Celestion technical service to know the chart / specifications of that speaker and if it can be considered a Flat response , a guitar speaker or a mid-way between the 2 cathegories as it is considered by some users , and they answered me that it’s a guitar speaker, with a relatively neutral response. It was custom built for Fender, so the specifications aren’t available in the public domain.

Dimitri


I was referring to class D amps in general, and the general statement from TimsAudio that "A well designed class AB amp from yesteryear can achieve a .004% distortion. A pwm amp is lucky to get .1%. Almost no one publishes distortion specs for their digital amps. "

The speaker seems to be a bit of a secret, but it sounds fairly flat to me, but a bit limited in the very high frequencies.


Ah ok. Yes i see... , if it is not a real full range (i meant "full range", not flat response, in the precedent message ) speaker it will be limited in the high range frequencies and so particularly when you play the backing tracks or songs.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:41 am
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It's limited in the highs compared to a FR speaker, but it's got excessive highs compared to a typical guitar speaker. Itls probably AS full range as is possible from a 12" driver with no tweeter or mid driver being used along with it like FR systems typically need to be FR.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:06 pm
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Ok, I need to chime in here...

Sound quality absolutely matters...more so to the audiophiles "directly"...and perhaps "subliminally" to the average listener...

Lets not mistake the forest for the trees....or however that goes....

People don't care about the details, the specifics...the 'how' you achieve your goal, music in this case...but generally speaking and all things being equal, they do gravitate toward better quality pix, audio, food, whatever else u can think of...I'm not a 'visual' guy, per se, tho we do shoot our own music videos and whatnot...but I can tell apart a s****y video from a good one...what I can't tell u is what camera was used....nor do I know much about frame rates, screen resolutions etc.

Btw & Fyi, I even have more problem with wine...a 'connaisseur', I shall never become in spite of my half-hearted attempts - though great desire to be one - thereof...

Would you rather listen to - insert name here - on a crappy mono transistor radio or on a state-of-the-art hi-fi surround? I've been to lots of shows with non-musicians....most pick up on the 'obvious' and to a great degree the less "noticeable" shortcomings (or strengths, for that matter)...like a screetchy sounding solo....drums too loud....can't hear the singer....all such factors influence the listener one way or another...

Thing is, if you are attending your favorite pop star's concert, such stuff might not matter as much...u are already sold on the act....or lets say, u come up to some busker playing "comfortably numb" on the subway on his acoustic...I'll go out on a limb here and assume that you've already heard the song a thousand times b4...so as such, u don't need to hear the rest of the band play along...your brain willfill in the blanks subconsciously...

but for an upcoming band, or a lesser known one, with material that you've never heard b4, there's no such "cerebral compensation"...so every bit helps...including your guitar amp's tone...the singer' voice...the drums...keyboards....etc. again, the details of how you achieve your ultimate mix, and through what gear and how much you paid for it, don't matter none to the audience....but the resulting sound quality does...

So if u can achieve your great tone or video footage using inexpensive gear....great....ditto if you are using expensive gear...its the end result that matters....

Or maybe it's just the booze talking....


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:29 pm
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Only 11.5 million views for this video. Could you imagine if they had used a Taylor or a Martin instead of an Epiphone? I'm guessing still 11.5 mil.



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