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Post subject: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:30 am
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Shane (In The Blues) has posted the first review of his new Mustang GT100 on YouTube. For those of you not familiar with he, he did a well known set of presets for the Mustang IIIv2 series (Mustang Mondays), but panned the GT200 he bought and then sold. Fender offered to send him a GT100 if he would review the version 2.0 firmware.

Bottom line: he likes it, but it's not perfect. He'll post more videos as he works with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIn-Q6M ... de5-PYThbM


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:45 am
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I think the difference in his last review and this one speaks more to the stereo GT200 vs the mono GT100 more then the new firmware. The map has some nice additions but I can't hear a difference in the overall core tone. But a lot of people had issues with the GT200 and GT40 that was speculated by some including myself to be the stereo factor. I'd like to see him review the 200 again with V2 firmware.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:08 pm
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After reading this here and elsewhere i decided to fire up the GT again. The one issue that i can't get past is that even if i can get past the basic tone quality, i have a problem with the low end. I cannot for the life of me get the amp up to stage volume without the lows feeding back and getting this weird cabinet resonance. I try turning the bass down till it goes away but at that point it becomes a tinny sounding useless tone. So i leave the bass up enough that it sounds good but has the issue still and put the EQ that has a 80Hz slider at the end of the chain and drop 80 Hz right on down as low as it goes and the problem still exists if not quite as bad. Try using a higher range bass slider on this EQ or the others and i run into the same issue just turning the bass knob on the model down.....tinny. And theres no happy medium between low end resonance and tinny. Turning the gain down helps but by the time i have turned it down enough to eliminate the issue i no longer have the amount of gain i want which by the way is not so much that i can't get quite clean when i roll the volume on my strat down to about 4.

So as i have said in the past, the issues i think are with the cab/speaker/pwr amp. I was able to get some nice tones but once i get to that point this issue starts. I also get some farting out that sounds like the power amp losing it when i have it up to stage volume. And NO, it's not that i am using too much low end. I have been playing near 50 years more than 1/2 that in regularly gigging bands and i have never had a amp where I get this issue where theres no happy medium between unusable farting low end and tinny sound.

I do love the amp when i get good sounds out of it and while my katana's tone is just much better overall, i prefer the GT's TYPE of tone and variation of tone. Nit to mention the far far better switching and the all parameters on amp editing ability. If only the several issues i have with it weren't there it would be great. As i have always said, this amp has great potential but just has issues i can';t get past at stage volume. Those who don;t have these issue, i don't know what but I'm glad u don't. You're lucky i guess. I think i may just keep it for a while and see if i can eliminate it somehow. Maybe even go as far as to build a head cabinet for it and find a cab and speaker that will eliminate the issues for me. I do however have one issue that i can't get past....it cuts out now and then. I know theres a thread about this and it's something thats plagued this thing for a long time. Fortunately it only happens rarely but it still happens. Turning it off then back on sometimes fixes it.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:11 pm
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oczad wrote:
After reading this here and elsewhere i decided to fire up the GT again. The one issue that i can't get past is that even if i can get past the basic tone quality, i have a problem with the low end. I cannot for the life of me get the amp up to stage volume without the lows feeding back and getting this weird cabinet resonance. I try turning the bass down till it goes away but at that point it becomes a tinny sounding useless tone. So i leave the bass up enough that it sounds good but has the issue still and put the EQ that has a 80Hz slider at the end of the chain and drop 80 Hz right on down as low as it goes and the problem still exists if not quite as bad. Try using a higher range bass slider on this EQ or the others and i run into the same issue just turning the bass knob on the model down.....tinny. And theres no happy medium between low end resonance and tinny. Turning the gain down helps but by the time i have turned it down enough to eliminate the issue i no longer have the amount of gain i want which by the way is not so much that i can't get quite clean when i roll the volume on my strat down to about 4.

So as i have said in the past, the issues i think are with the cab/speaker/pwr amp. I was able to get some nice tones but once i get to that point this issue starts. I also get some farting out that sounds like the power amp losing it when i have it up to stage volume. And NO, it's not that i am using too much low end. I have been playing near 50 years more than 1/2 that in regularly gigging bands and i have never had a amp where I get this issue where theres no happy medium between unusable farting low end and tinny sound.

I do love the amp when i get good sounds out of it and while my katana's tone is just much better overall, i prefer the GT's TYPE of tone and variation of tone. Nit to mention the far far better switching and the all parameters on amp editing ability. If only the several issues i have with it weren't there it would be great. As i have always said, this amp has great potential but just has issues i can';t get past at stage volume. Those who don;t have these issue, i don't know what but I'm glad u don't. You're lucky i guess. I think i may just keep it for a while and see if i can eliminate it somehow. Maybe even go as far as to build a head cabinet for it and find a cab and speaker that will eliminate the issues for me. I do however have one issue that i can't get past....it cuts out now and then. I know theres a thread about this and it's something thats plagued this thing for a long time. Fortunately it only happens rarely but it still happens. Turning it off then back on sometimes fixes it.


Not saying that this is the case here, but just to make sure, know that while editing, say, changing amps, the new amp selection reverts back to its default setting as set by the good folks at Fender, which to my ears, is the poorest sound out of the GT....and that is, noise gate off + "pre" + "matched".....btw, I do realize that kind of sounds counter-intuitive...like, no noise gate should result in a more rounded/better tone, albeit, with more noise....but I've found that out not to be the case....also, another suprising better setting is "less"....rather than matched

iow, for whatever reason the amp doesn't seem to be able to retain your previously created preset paramter settings consistently or permenantly (unless you re-save the same settings several times over in my experience)....so whenever u replace an amp with another one....u'd need to re-establish your previous settings for the new amp....or just start over finding your sound as such....

also, another problem that I had to deal with up until the v2 were that some patches would sound different everytime I turned on the amp....even though "visually", the settings didn't indicate such a difference....what I mean by that is that lets say I'd save a certain patch with the gain past halfway...but the next time I would turn on the amp....something just wouldn't sound right....visually the gain was at the right spot....so naturally one would conclude that the amp sux...cuz such & such gain, should be giving me more warmth and on the edge of breakup sound....again, given what u see with the knobs' value....which would be false...Only u gotta move some of the knobs - gain, in this case - back & forth to get back what u had b4...cuz unbenownst to you...and certainly unexpectedly.....often the settings change...even if they visually don't indicate it....

anyway...this whole exercise with the GT has been a serious "work in progress", to say the least....hope some of this makes some sense...this is some fine wine I'm having...


Last edited by tele-de-fender on Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:36 pm
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If i understand what U R saying then yes, i know that. I assume what you mean is if for example you go to a patch and change say the bassman to the bassbreaker, the amp settings revert to default for the bassbreaker. It's always been like that so thats not an issue. What i do is create a patch with whatever amp i want, then adjust everything thats not where i want it. I rarely ever change that to a different amp, i just use a new location for that.

Been playing more since i posted and using the EV12L in a ext cab and i'm finding it eliminates the issue with the low end i have completely if along with that i readjust thing to help. I'm getting some nice sounds right now, but i don't know what good that will do me if i have to build a new cabinet for it or make a head of it etc etc. But i will say the new Friedman and bassbreaker models with the EV and ext cab are getting much closer. I wish fender would forget about semi FR speakers like this and featherweight cabs (they just are not a good thing at stage volumes) and just build for tone. If the thing had a proper speaker and a beefier cab i think they'd really be onto a great combo. Probably need a better power amp too but this one may be acceptable like that, not sure. This thing's chassis alone is THREE Lbs ! I know because i had it out to get some contact cleaner on the multi connectors and it was so light i was shocked, so i weight it on a accurate kitchen scale.

Anyways, i'm going to put the EV in the GT cab and see if the resonance issue is back. If not i just may think about keeping it. The EV doesn't fit without removing the board under the chassis so about a year ago i made a new board with a cutout for the EV, but since i was selling it i ended up cutting that board up when i needed a piece of plywood. DOH ! I'll just leave it out and if i decide it's worth keeping i'll make another. By the way, most people thing EV's are bright but to show you how bright the stock speaker is, using the EV is like turning the treble down about 4-5 numbers ! Thats speakers just blows at anything more then home volume. I can crank it loud with the EV and the thing hardly needs any treble compensation unlike the stock spkr.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:41 pm
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btw, I've been re-editing my post several times over - now who does that remind me of :))))) - so version 2 to 10 are up now...trying to clarify my initial post....like I mentioned....posting under the influence....


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:39 pm
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Shane's friend has a GT 200 that was bought when they were released. They plan to get it updated and give it a go. I have been on the fence on buying one and Shanes review helped a lot. There are some concerns the dual speaker versions may have issues the 100 doesn't. I look forward to Shane's next report.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:17 pm
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Ok, to your second point about turning the amp on and a patch no longer sounds right....that happened to me long ago and i talked to fender about it. They had me send it to the to have a look at but they said they couldn't recreate it. Mine doesn't do that anymore tho and hasn't for a long time.
As i have said ad nausium tho, i still am 100% certain the modeling is great nd it;s everything AFTER that which i find all sorts of faults with. A really good power amp into a known great quality cab with some great speakers like EV and it would be a fantastic combo. I'd still keep th artist tho because to be honest i get sounds out of that most of the tube amps i have had would be hard pressed to do as well. I'd give an arm and a leg for a GT that has the modeling it does with the tonal quality and realism of my artist. But i guess thats what $2000+ kempers and helix's and all those are for, eh? I'm not sure any manufacturer sees a big market for a combo of that level. I may be in the minority, but i'd be first in line for that. Or just take my artist and make the functionality better than where it is now, about a 1 on a 1-10 scale. :(


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:07 am
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FWIW....here's my post in the aforementioned youtube video:

I love the GT...

So coming from a Mustang III v2, which I really liked - and which was also universally praised - I'm surprised to hear that so many feel that the GT is lacking in the tone department and a step backward...and I think I might know at least why some find them rather compressed/boxy sounding , sort of like the "recording of an amp" instead of the real thing......

The culprit: the go-to default setting...as set by the good people over @ Fender...and a mistake IMHO

Here's what I mean: for most all the amps (and thus the factory presets), and epsecially true every single time u switch to other amps in edit mode to audition and make your own patches, this is what u get by default : noise gate: off, gate placement: pre, sag: matched....Now the important point to remember here is that this exact setting actually sounded great in the previous generation....

Well, not so with the GT...first & most importantly, SAG...just set it to "less" and be done with it....whereas "matched" was the better choice in the 3v2, in the GT, it just kills the dynamics and you lose that live amp-in-the-room feel...and u can forget about "more" sag altogether...btw, at least prior to the recent V2 update, the GT was in the bad habit of sometimes randomly changing parameters by itself....so this was easy to miss...even I forgot to check for it...thankfully now the GT software seems to be more stable...

Even, the noise gate acts weird in the GT...counter-intuitvely, its absence does not necessarily improve the tone at the expense of allowing unwanted noise in the circuit, rather, when the gate is off, there is a bit of a loss of tone strangely enough...but perhaps, this is not at all as noticeable as the sag adjustment....either way, with all my presets, I set NG to at least the "low" setting placed "post" just to be safe...

So in summary, I've found that with each preset u must delve a little deeper into the amp settings to play around with the above-mentioned parameters....these effect the overall "feel" of the amp more than the EQ settings which are there to shape its "tone"....

My 2c...


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:38 am
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I have heard you mention the pre/post settings on the gate effecting the sound even with the gate off, but i just can't hear it. I tried and today tried again. Gate off, pre and post back and fourth over and over and i jut cannot detect anything. Even if i think i might have i try and make my playing more accurate so theres no chance that i accountable and then i hear no difference. So even if i hear an ever so slight difference it turns out it;s my playing being different each time. So i just don't hear any difference. I have to assume it may be the models and settings you use that are different from mine and maybe thats why u hear it and i don't. I don't use clean settings, i use overdriven tones and use the friedman and the bassbreaker and bassman and get my cleans by setting the gain to the highest level that will allow for clean tones when i roll the guitar down to 3-4. If thats not it i have no idea, but i hear zero difference between pre and post. And to be clear, this IS with the gate set to off. I hate noise gates.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:52 am
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Fender GTs are a modern product that suffers from the economies of the electronic industry's relentless drive for cheaper products with more features.
The power stage is a pulse width modulated amp. This means that the output transistors are turned on all the way for short, varying pulses. The pulses are then filtered into the AC signal again and fed to the speaker.
The advantage is that the transistors don't produce any heat when saturated to fully on. A linear signal causes the transistors to act as resistive elements, causing lots of heat that needs a heat sink and or cooling fans.
The disadvantage is that the filter on the output transistors doesn't stand a chance of ever operating properly.
All passive filters rely on a stable output impedance to filter accurately. Speakers are not a stable load. They are a highly reactive load. They vary their impedance by frequency. They also produce their own voltages that throw off the accuracy of the filter. When a speaker is pushed out of its rest position, the suspension of the cone tries to push it back. This creates the reverse voltage known as back electromotive force, or back emf. The back emf invades the output filter and causes distortion and low end farting.
A well designed class AB amp from yesteryear can achieve a .004% distortion. A pwm amp is lucky to get .1%. Almost no one publishes distortion specs for their digital amps.
Fender is locked into the design just like every other amp builder for the mass market. The cost per watt is much less than class AB and the electronics industry is driven there by competition. If you can sell your amp for ten bucks less than a similar amp next to it, you'll clean up.
While the new Mustang may sound better than the old one, comparing it to an old class AB will tell you pretty quickly where its tone quality rates. And comparing its tone quality to a good tube amp will make you forget about all those fancy features.
Fortunately for Fender, not everyone has seen the Mona Lisa of sound, so they have nothing to compare the Mustangs to. Tone quality takes times to learn to recognize and Mustang owners obviously chose features instead. Over time, though, their ears develop and come up against the digital tone wall of their Mustang


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:13 pm
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I agree whit pretty much all of that and it makes total sense with what I have been hearing between my GT100 and my katana artist, the artist IS a AB class outout. And i've been screaming it to the heavens that the difference that makes the katana sound so much better isn't the modeling but the output and hardware, power amp/speaker/cab. i really like the GT's modeling and this its as good as the kat. But i have been playing and tweaking te GT the last couple days with my EV12L to try and see if i can come close to the kat. But every time i pull the plug out of the GT and put it in the kat the difference is huge and undeniable. I have plugged the GT's modeling minus cab sim into the katana's return before and the tone quality takes a major leap. But you really MUST A/B things to know where a tone stands because i get the GT sounding good and start to think i;m really getting somewhere only to plug into the kat artist quickly and be shocked at how much better it is. But you also MUST be getting the best from each or your results can be quite different than mine. But yeah, IMO the power section is a huge part of the problem and cannot be made better with firmware. So if fender rally wants a killer combo they're barking up the wrong tree IMO. They need to make hardware changes, not firmware. But thats not possible w/o building a whole new amp and leaving all the current owners in the dust.

TimsAudio wrote:
Fender GTs are a modern product that suffers from the economies of the electronic industry's relentless drive for cheaper products with more features.
The power stage is a pulse width modulated amp. This means that the output transistors are turned on all the way for short, varying pulses. The pulses are then filtered into the AC signal again and fed to the speaker.
The advantage is that the transistors don't produce any heat when saturated to fully on. A linear signal causes the transistors to act as resistive elements, causing lots of heat that needs a heat sink and or cooling fans.
The disadvantage is that the filter on the output transistors doesn't stand a chance of ever operating properly.
All passive filters rely on a stable output impedance to filter accurately. Speakers are not a stable load. They are a highly reactive load. They vary their impedance by frequency. They also produce their own voltages that throw off the accuracy of the filter. When a speaker is pushed out of its rest position, the suspension of the cone tries to push it back. This creates the reverse voltage known as back electromotive force, or back emf. The back emf invades the output filter and causes distortion and low end farting.
A well designed class AB amp from yesteryear can achieve a .004% distortion. A pwm amp is lucky to get .1%. Almost no one publishes distortion specs for their digital amps.
Fender is locked into the design just like every other amp builder for the mass market. The cost per watt is much less than class AB and the electronics industry is driven there by competition. If you can sell your amp for ten bucks less than a similar amp next to it, you'll clean up.
While the new Mustang may sound better than the old one, comparing it to an old class AB will tell you pretty quickly where its tone quality rates. And comparing its tone quality to a good tube amp will make you forget about all those fancy features.
Fortunately for Fender, not everyone has seen the Mona Lisa of sound, so they have nothing to compare the Mustangs to. Tone quality takes times to learn to recognize and Mustang owners obviously chose features instead. Over time, though, their ears develop and come up against the digital tone wall of their Mustang


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:09 pm
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TimsAudio wrote:
Fender GTs are a modern product that suffers from the economies of the electronic industry's relentless drive for cheaper products with more features.
The power stage is a pulse width modulated amp. This means that the output transistors are turned on all the way for short, varying pulses. The pulses are then filtered into the AC signal again and fed to the speaker.
The advantage is that the transistors don't produce any heat when saturated to fully on. A linear signal causes the transistors to act as resistive elements, causing lots of heat that needs a heat sink and or cooling fans.
The disadvantage is that the filter on the output transistors doesn't stand a chance of ever operating properly.
All passive filters rely on a stable output impedance to filter accurately. Speakers are not a stable load. They are a highly reactive load. They vary their impedance by frequency. They also produce their own voltages that throw off the accuracy of the filter. When a speaker is pushed out of its rest position, the suspension of the cone tries to push it back. This creates the reverse voltage known as back electromotive force, or back emf. The back emf invades the output filter and causes distortion and low end farting.
A well designed class AB amp from yesteryear can achieve a .004% distortion. A pwm amp is lucky to get .1%. Almost no one publishes distortion specs for their digital amps.
Fender is locked into the design just like every other amp builder for the mass market. The cost per watt is much less than class AB and the electronics industry is driven there by competition. If you can sell your amp for ten bucks less than a similar amp next to it, you'll clean up.
While the new Mustang may sound better than the old one, comparing it to an old class AB will tell you pretty quickly where its tone quality rates. And comparing its tone quality to a good tube amp will make you forget about all those fancy features.
Fortunately for Fender, not everyone has seen the Mona Lisa of sound, so they have nothing to compare the Mustangs to. Tone quality takes times to learn to recognize and Mustang owners obviously chose features instead. Over time, though, their ears develop and come up against the digital tone wall of their Mustang


Sorry...but totally disagree with your comment....in a totally "non-confrontational way", btw, i might add....

I've heard the good ones....

One sound...good....ok, great...and then?

I can get 95% of that sound, if not more....and then another thousand good to great that I wouldnt get with the "Mona Lisa".....


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:43 pm
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TimsAudio wrote:
Fender GTs are a modern product that suffers from the economies of the electronic industry's relentless drive for cheaper products with more features.
The power stage is a pulse width modulated amp. This means that the output transistors are turned on all the way for short, varying pulses. The pulses are then filtered into the AC signal again and fed to the speaker.
The advantage is that the transistors don't produce any heat when saturated to fully on. A linear signal causes the transistors to act as resistive elements, causing lots of heat that needs a heat sink and or cooling fans.
The disadvantage is that the filter on the output transistors doesn't stand a chance of ever operating properly.
All passive filters rely on a stable output impedance to filter accurately. Speakers are not a stable load. They are a highly reactive load. They vary their impedance by frequency. They also produce their own voltages that throw off the accuracy of the filter. When a speaker is pushed out of its rest position, the suspension of the cone tries to push it back. This creates the reverse voltage known as back electromotive force, or back emf. The back emf invades the output filter and causes distortion and low end farting.
A well designed class AB amp from yesteryear can achieve a .004% distortion. A pwm amp is lucky to get .1%. Almost no one publishes distortion specs for their digital amps.



I googled a few specs straight off, and they had very good specs - better than you need for a guitar amp, in fact I am listening to one play some classical music on the hifi right now and it sounds good. If they are good enough for hifi, then, distortion wise, they are good enough for guitar.


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Post subject: Re: Shane's new GT100 review
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:48 pm
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oczad wrote:
If i understand what U R saying then yes, i know that. I assume what you mean is if for example you go to a patch and change say the bassman to the bassbreaker, the amp settings revert to default for the bassbreaker. It's always been like that so thats not an issue. What i do is create a patch with whatever amp i want, then adjust everything thats not where i want it. I rarely ever change that to a different amp, i just use a new location for that.

Been playing more since i posted and using the EV12L in a ext cab and i'm finding it eliminates the issue with the low end i have completely if along with that i readjust thing to help. I'm getting some nice sounds right now, but i don't know what good that will do me if i have to build a new cabinet for it or make a head of it etc etc. But i will say the new Friedman and bassbreaker models with the EV and ext cab are getting much closer. I wish fender would forget about semi FR speakers like this and featherweight cabs (they just are not a good thing at stage volumes) and just build for tone. If the thing had a proper speaker and a beefier cab i think they'd really be onto a great combo. Probably need a better power amp too but this one may be acceptable like that, not sure. This thing's chassis alone is THREE Lbs ! I know because i had it out to get some contact cleaner on the multi connectors and it was so light i was shocked, so i weight it on a accurate kitchen scale.

Anyways, i'm going to put the EV in the GT cab and see if the resonance issue is back. If not i just may think about keeping it. The EV doesn't fit without removing the board under the chassis so about a year ago i made a new board with a cutout for the EV, but since i was selling it i ended up cutting that board up when i needed a piece of plywood. DOH ! I'll just leave it out and if i decide it's worth keeping i'll make another. By the way, most people thing EV's are bright but to show you how bright the stock speaker is, using the EV is like turning the treble down about 4-5 numbers ! Thats speakers just blows at anything more then home volume. I can crank it loud with the EV and the thing hardly needs any treble compensation unlike the stock spkr.



You are right, when switching amp models, it has to start at the defaults. Fender could, but haven't written the code to let you edit the defaults. That would be a good thing to do Fender.

I'd be interested to hear how you like the EV in the Mustang. I don't find it surprising at all that different people prefer different speaker's sounds for their base tone. You mention it being like turning down the treble. btw. I suppose you have tried the global eq bright cut with the Celestion?


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