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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:31 pm
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oczad: https://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=106757

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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:13 pm
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Hmmm....kinda disappointing tho i HAVE been wanting to see the tuner improved. But i was hoping for some things like making the effect assignable instead of only being ale to switch the first 3 on/off. But the tuner is the only thing i see worth updating for unless the bug fixes are helpful. There's only one big one I can think of offhand, and thats the sound being different from one powerup to the next at times, but i seem to be unique to that issue so i doubt they fixed that. (no, it's not my ears, my MIII sounded exactly the same for the entire 5 years i owned it every time i powered it up) Any way we can find out what the bug fixes are? I'm a bit hesitant to update for the tuner improvement alone for fear they may have changed something tonally.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:27 pm
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oczad wrote:
There's only one big one I can think of offhand, and thats the sound being different from one powerup to the next at times, but i seem to be unique to that issue so i doubt they fixed that. (no, it's not my ears, my MIII sounded exactly the same for the entire 5 years i owned it every time i powered it up) Any way we can find out what the bug fixes are? I'm a bit hesitant to update for the tuner improvement alone for fear they may have changed something tonally.


well...you're not alone...that has happened to me...and I do hear it too...glad that I'm not alone...in fact, I've already mentioned this problem a few times, perhaps here in a related thread and/or in my email exchanges with the gentleman on the GT development team...alas, not sure what'll come out of it...


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:00 pm
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Well, unfortunately you're the only other i have seen mention this so until enough people do they aren't likely to look into it. Does your do the same as mine where you start it up and it sounds normal, then another time you start it and it sounds thin, shrill and louder ? I had to see so i gave in and updated and turned in on and off a few times and same thing still happens. So they haven't fixed that. The tuner is more stable like they said tho so thats nice. But a amp that sounds shrill and nasty from time to time on powerup is a hard amp to stick with. When that happens i think about selling it every time and eventually thats likely gonna happen.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:29 pm
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Yes...that's more or less what I'm hearing...so I had gone into quite some detail on said thread/email trying to pinpoint exactly what's happening...as per your description, my overall conclusion was that the unwanted change is mostly "dynamics-related"...things like gain, volume, pre/post...compression....and in certain instances some parameters in the other modules such as stereo spread seem to be changing on their own resulting in the powerup differences...

another thing i had noticed was that these changes seem to be more prevalent when doing your edits via both tone app and on the amp itself....so i stopped using the tone app altogether....another thing I've noticed is that it seems that when u do some edits, sometimes the amp reverts back to the old settings or something like that....so sometimes it takes at least a couple tries to make any edit "stick"....

these steps and couple other here & there seem to have resolved the issue more or less thus far....


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:25 pm
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I think you're right. The difference almost seems like you turned the sag from the highest setting to less and then some. Like theres zero give in the attack like solid state amps of the 70's used to be. Horrible feel. But if i play around with volumes even sometimes just jacking the master knob to 10 and back down to zero sometimes that brings it back to normal. Like you said tho, dynamics/ compression, specifically a total lack of any. And i'm beginning to thing it;s not just one extreme or the other, but that at times when starting it up it sits somewhere in between.

I just don't understand why the GT has been such a problematic and unstable amp in so many ways (can't count the issues i have had) when my MIII was dead stable and in 5 years never flinched in any way shape or form. What could it be in the engine or the coding or whatever that is so unstable as to cause uncountable issues that disappear then reappear randomly? I have to wonder if there is some core component be it in the firmware or hardware thats not of the same quality as the old mustang. It would be nice if one thing could be changed that would stabilized the amp so there are no further issues other than lack of functionality.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:40 am
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I'm really pleased that the new firmware update has fixed the 'glitch' that used to occur on the looper where the join was. The volume doesn't dip away anymore and the static-type click has vanished. It makes it so much more enjoyable to use! :D

I do notice though that the footswitch (I have the MGT-4) does still tend to jam up quite often, as in pressing the buttons doesn't do anything for a while. I'm hoping that maybe this will be looked into for a future update?

PB


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:57 am
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oczad wrote:
I think you're right. The difference almost seems like you turned the sag from the highest setting to less and then some. Like theres zero give in the attack like solid state amps of the 70's used to be. Horrible feel. But if i play around with volumes even sometimes just jacking the master knob to 10 and back down to zero sometimes that brings it back to normal. Like you said tho, dynamics/ compression, specifically a total lack of any. And i'm beginning to thing it;s not just one extreme or the other, but that at times when starting it up it sits somewhere in between.

I just don't understand why the GT has been such a problematic and unstable amp in so many ways (can't count the issues i have had) when my MIII was dead stable and in 5 years never flinched in any way shape or form. What could it be in the engine or the coding or whatever that is so unstable as to cause uncountable issues that disappear then reappear randomly? I have to wonder if there is some core component be it in the firmware or hardware thats not of the same quality as the old mustang. It would be nice if one thing could be changed that would stabilized the amp so there are no further issues other than lack of functionality.


I think it might have something to do with the introduction of the tone app, wifi, BT & all... and their integration with the amp....as for the powerup glitch.....in certain instances, u might have to edit/save a preset several times to your liking b4 it "holds"....I still wouldn't try to edit using both the tone app and the amp itself...as per above explanation....


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:58 am
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Pigletboy wrote:
I'm really pleased that the new firmware update has fixed the 'glitch' that used to occur on the looper where the join was. The volume doesn't dip away anymore and the static-type click has vanished. It makes it so much more enjoyable to use! :D

I do notice though that the footswitch (I have the MGT-4) does still tend to jam up quite often, as in pressing the buttons doesn't do anything for a while. I'm hoping that maybe this will be looked into for a future update?

PB


yes to both observations....another thing that would be a great addition to the looper would be an "auto start record" feature


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:13 am
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I don't use the tone app and keep bluetooth turned off. But I bet that feature is probably the cause of some of the issues with the amp and i hate that they included it for several reasons. As to editing a patch several times, I have presets that i have had forever and I find those as well as newer ones are all affected. I even tried what you said and turned all the settings in a preset then turned them back to where they were and saved but still happens. I don't think that affects the issue for me at least. But what i find seems to work is to turn the physical master up and back and even all the other physical knobs then switch away from that patch then back and at that point it often sounds right.

In respect to the switch jam issue, mine did that too but completely stopped since last update in october. The fact some still have it with that version should be telling to the GT team. Not being a programmer i have no idea in what way, but i would think that should give them a hint where to look.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:07 am
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Well, I believe that I now have irrefutable evidence that my presets are changing on their own.

I had previously made duplicates of about 35 (of 70+) presets of my own creation. So I did the latest firmware update and in spite of my own advice to the contrary did a few edits via tone app just to check it out again....

Lo & behold...when I powered up the amp again today...many of the original and duplicate presets didn't sound the same...furthermore, many of my other remaining presets also sounded vastly different...I'd say the noticeable changes were in the dynamics, eq and effect mixes...

For example, a lot of the eq's in my own presets - while retaining their given name - appear to have reverted to the GT's own factory levels...a lot of which had the treble or bass at 10....i had rolled back many of the eq's to mid levels so this particular change was easy to remember/spot....ditto for, say, delay levels....i had rolled back a lot of them in GTs factory presets and saved them as my own presets elsewhere....

(I had previously mentioned here that there seems to be something about the addition/placement of the noise gate which seems to affect the tone counter-intuitively for the better....still seems to hold true)

The footswitch, while better, still does do crazy things...tuner little more stable....

Honestly, the most frustrating thing for me is the lack of backup possibility for my presets a la Fuse...I've had to redo my presets so many times from scratch it's not funny....


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:21 am
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Boy do i have a story for you ! But first, mine do NOT change in as far as settings. I never see any setting changed. My problem is the entire amp, not just given presets changes on startup. The amp regardless of what preset i use sounds shrill and bright/hard and like you said seems like a total lack of any compression/sag etc. But no settings change on thier own VISUALLY. In other words, if say the treble had changed i wouldn't know it because if i had it at 7.2, it will always read 7.2. Maybe it changes in the actual amount of treble but it doesn't show that.

Now for the story. I bought the amp the day it debuted at GC. I had tons of issues and was in constant contact with a particular CS rep. One day i notice that the sound was horrible on my main preset. So i mad a new one in a different slot and every setting was exact. I did NOT copy it to that slot, i made it from scratch with the same settings as my main preset in slot #1. When i A.B'd them the new one sounded normal and my old one sounded bad ! Same everything. Then i made a 3rd and i experimented with that one and it sounded normal too. However, i had turned the greenbox off at one point while experimenting and never set it back to on by default as in my main preset.

So i call the rep and tell him how my main preset sounded like crap now and a exact copy i made from scratch sounded great., I told him how i had the original one in slot one, and the others in i think something like #6 and #100 or one of those highest number slots before they added another 100. He then asked me to send it back so they could try and figure out what was going on and they;d send me a new one. I mentioned that they don't always sound like that and the bad one will revert bad to sounding normal. So if i turn it off the next time the difference may not be there. But at the time he asked me to send it back it was doing this last time i turned it off so he wanted me to send it and i said ok but it may not do it when you get it. Because it only did this now and then, not consistently at all. But i sent it and this is what happened, and it really pissed me off. He listened to the main one and the one i had experimented with which had the greenbox off by default unlike my main patch in #1. So he tells me thats what i was hearing ! I told him no, listen to the one in 6 because thats the one thats still untouched. He then tells me he restored the amp so all the settings were gone. This is where i got pissed....he continued to insist what i was hearing was that other patch ! But he erased everything with the restore. Besides, chances were good the amp would not display the issuse for him anyways, but the fact he seemed to insist what i was hearing was that the one patch had the grrenbox off pissed me off to no end. I told him ad nausium that NO, it was the one in slots 6 i never touched after i created it and thats the one he should have listened to but it was gone now. So i guess he was basically calling me a liar because he refused to believe it was a exact copy that i heard the difference in. the one with the GB off wasn't even created till well after i made the other patch and heard the difference. And that happened twice. then later on i made the one he heard and messed around with it to try different things.

So very early on i told him about this amp's tone issue but he basically blew me off and having made some dumb mistake and having compared 2 patches with one different setting. Meanwhile now on almost a year later the issue is still here because they didn't take my word seriously. Just talking about this brings it all back and really pisses me off. And by the way, he didn't send me a new one, he sent that one back because he felt i'm just an idiot complaining about something that was my fault. Later one due to other issues he had me send it back and sent a new one, but the issue exists in this one too. I'm tempted to say something here but at the risk of getting banned i'll pass. Anyways, that issue while related isn't exactly the same now. (or is it?) It's a different version of it that just seems to have the amp sounding crappy on some startups. But come to think about it, i think next time it happens i should create a new version of the patch i start on elsewhere and see if that same thing is happening. I just haven;t thought to try that again.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:52 pm
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oczad wrote:
Boy do i have a story for you ! But first, mine do NOT change in as far as settings. I never see any setting changed. My problem is the entire amp, not just given presets changes on startup. The amp regardless of what preset i use sounds shrill and bright/hard and like you said seems like a total lack of any compression/sag etc. But no settings change on thier own VISUALLY. In other words, if say the treble had changed i wouldn't know it because if i had it at 7.2, it will always read 7.2. Maybe it changes in the actual amount of treble but it doesn't show that.




OK, I was trying to say the very same thing you're experiencing....the whole amp seems to be acting up every now & then...when I mention certain presets or parameter changes, it's just to look at it in more detail...otherwise, it's the whole amp doing it...and yes, randomly and not everytime so it's gonna be hard to demonstrate on demand...

Also, when I mention eq changes, it's as u said, not "visually", IOW, the actual settings remain the same...just the sound is different...irrespective of where the knobs are set...


Believe me, I understand your frustration...but my in my email exchanges with Fender, they've been very courteous and professional...and inquisitive about the problems I/other users are experiencing...

I remain optimistic....

just won't do my edits using tone app in conjunction with on-the-amp itself...

TBC...


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:59 pm
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They were courteous to me too the rest of the time, but over and over telling me what i heard was the greenbox being off on that one patch really bothers me. I don't like being called a liar when i know for an absolute fact what was going on. All he had to say was sorry, i couldn't recreated it. And after i explained to him why that patch that was changed has nothing to do with it he should have taken my word. That patch he compared was NOT EVEN IN EXISTENCE the 2 times the amp did this before i sent it in ! It was made after the second time the amp did it. It's just a sore point with me, but anyways, enough of that. In any case, that aside they were quite nice to me. But till they believe this is happening they aren't going to fix it. What puzzles me is how THEY haven't experienced it. Maybe they develop new firmware updates on a prototype thats different in some way that isn't susceptible to the issue, who knows. I did mess with it today a lot trying to determine when and why it happens but there seems to be no certain rhyme or reason. But what i AM fairly certain of is that is i play with all the physical knobs on the amp then turn away to another preset and back to get the settings back to normal it seems to fix it. I also noted at one time that when i turned the master all the way up and back, at about 1/3 of it's travel i heard a click sort of sound from the speaker leading me to think something was resetting itself to where it supposed to be.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:20 am
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So...still so many problems after all this time and Fender have gone pretty much silent?

I am so glad I waited and kept my old Mustang.


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