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Post subject: I bet ya.....
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:34 am
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.....fender's silence here recently is because there will soon be a GT V2. Wouldn't be surprised to see one by next namm. I just hope they have come to the same conclusion i have a put it in a better cabinet with a better speaker. Every speaker i have tried that sounds great using the GT thru with the speaker in an extension cab sounds small and lacking in bass/girth when i put them in the GT's cab. And that stock speaker....i won't even go into that. But fender, if u r listening, experiment with the cab ! I think you will find the same thing i did. 5 speakers that i have now tried all in the GT AND in a cheezy ext cab i built all sound bigger and much better overall in it vs the GT cab. I would go as far as to say as bright and tinny the stock speaker gets at stage volume, it's importance takes a back seat to the cab. I;d even be happy to see a particle board cab like the old mustang which had no such problem. I porefer ply if it sounds good, but either the design/dimensions is cauding phase issues or the play is bad quality for acoustics somehow.

So if a new GT V2 arrives at some point, and my guess is it won't be long, it will have to be a different cab before i will consider it. That is IMO it's main flaw which is a shame because the modeling itself is great. Oh, and how about a 8 ohm output so it's much easier to swap speakers. Then i don't even care what u put in it. A head would be good too if they aren't willing to redesign the cab.

I know it sounds arrogant to tell fender what they should do, but honestly, I've been at this a long time and i am 100% certain this cab is detrimental to the amp's tone. I'm also probably one of the few if not only GT owners who has done this because you have to add a jack and have a number of speakers to do so. Swap several speakers from it to any ext cab and see for yourself fender.....it's not really subtle.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:58 am
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Wouldn't it be easier to just make a head version.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:39 pm
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Sure, but i think it makes little sense to continue on with the same cab if i happen to be right about that. The question is, am I ? I know the answer and would like to see fender consider it. No matter how good you make the modeling, a poor sounding can is a serious handicap. And you know an amp like this is never going to be targeted at mostly pros. So while a head would be nice, there are always going to be combo versions due to the target market. And it seems foolish to try and improve the modeling then put it in a cab that compromises all your hard work.

I now get some great tone that works very well live using 2 speakers with a ext cab for the second one, but i shouldn't have to do that. And most wouldn't simply because u have to know how to wire up a ext jack and be motivated to and believe it will be worthwhile to begin with. I gigged mostly marshall 1x12 combos for decades and never needed and ext cab.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:04 pm
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had a III v2 b4....got a g100 now...giant step forward overall...tho not in terms of execution & implementation...but as far as tone is concerned, my experience is that no need to change the speaker, etc. ..just edit the sag setting to "less" and take it from there...the previous mustangs' "matched" worked out pretty good....not so with the current incarnation..."less is more"....literally...but I've never ever had the patches I'm getting now....and I've been at this for a good while....just wish that all these software eff-upps would be fixed....


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:45 am
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tele-de-fender wrote:
had a III v2 b4....got a g100 now...giant step forward overall...tho not in terms of execution & implementation...but as far as tone is concerned, my experience is that no need to change the speaker, etc. ..just edit the sag setting to "less" and take it from there...the previous mustangs' "matched" worked out pretty good....not so with the current incarnation..."less is more"....literally...but I've never ever had the patches I'm getting now....and I've been at this for a good while....just wish that all these software eff-upps would be fixed....


Totally agree with everything Tele wrote.

I gotta say, its too soon to let Fender cut bait on these amps and start talking about v2 just yet. I don't want them even thinking about it for now. For the money I paid for my GT200, I expect more software fixes, tweaks, and features to come out first.

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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:21 pm
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It will be interesting to see where this goes. I voiced some of the same concerns about 6 months ago.

I had been misinformed in other forums that the GT was completely engineered by, firmware developed by and tone app developed by an outside overseas company. I was questioning Fender's commitment to the GT long term. Brad from fender set me straight, that the GT was engineered and programming was done in-house at Fender and that Fender was committed to the GT. (Thanks again, Brad!)

This does not rule out a GTV2 or a GT floor, but the core GT signal processor and surrounding software is a very impressive and not cheap bit of engineering that I would expect Fender will "ride" for several years.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:21 pm
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dervishmoose wrote:

This does not rule out a GTV2 or a GT floor, but the core GT signal processor and surrounding software is a very impressive and not cheap bit of engineering that I would expect Fender will "ride" for several years.


I agree on the modeling, but there are hardware issues that have been a huge issue with more than a few owners/potential owners that cannot necessarily be fixed via a firmware update. That being the GT's lack of switching options like the old mustang. I think they would need a V2 to do that and accept a second 2 button switch like you could do with the old amp or use a all new switch that could do it all in one. Thats what i believe will drive fender to do a V2 because there have been uncountable posts all over the net about how bad people find the GT's switching options. But i posted this because i believe there will be a V2 and to hopefully make fender take a look at the cab and speaker. I know you and another poster said you don't find a need to update the speaker, but have you even tried another? And in a cab that doesn't squash the sound like the stock one does? Maybe your requirements aren't as deep as many others, maybe home volume is all you use them for, etc etc.Because as the old saying goes, you can't miss what you never had. Trust me, the potential for far better is there even if it's mostly at stage volumes where the improvements are by far more obvious. Point is, i'm sure if they did improve the cab/speaker the amp would have a lot better initial reviews then the GT has had, which if you notice elsewhere are horrible. 90% of reviews have been very low scores. But like you and I have said many times, the modeling itself is superb. But you don't put retread tires on a Porsche.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:00 pm
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oczad wrote:
dervishmoose wrote:

This does not rule out a GTV2 or a GT floor, but the core GT signal processor and surrounding software is a very impressive and not cheap bit of engineering that I would expect Fender will "ride" for several years.


I agree on the modeling, but there are hardware issues that have been a huge issue with more than a few owners/potential owners that cannot necessarily be fixed via a firmware update. That being the GT's lack of switching options like the old mustang. I think they would need a V2 to do that and accept a second 2 button switch like you could do with the old amp or use a all new switch that could do it all in one. Thats what i believe will drive fender to do a V2 because there have been uncountable posts all over the net about how bad people find the GT's switching options. But i posted this because i believe there will be a V2 and to hopefully make fender take a look at the cab and speaker. I know you and another poster said you don't find a need to update the speaker, but have you even tried another? And in a cab that doesn't squash the sound like the stock one does? Maybe your requirements aren't as deep as many others, maybe home volume is all you use them for, etc etc.Because as the old saying goes, you can't miss what you never had. Trust me, the potential for far better is there even if it's mostly at stage volumes where the improvements are by far more obvious. Point is, i'm sure if they did improve the cab/speaker the amp would have a lot better initial reviews then the GT has had, which if you notice elsewhere are horrible. 90% of reviews have been very low scores. But like you and I have said many times, the modeling itself is superb. But you don't put retread tires on a Porsche.


So I agree with a lot of your points...especially the lack of the 2-button switch from the previous generation + several other switching issues, which basically render the current 4-button more or less useless for live applications...

as far as the speaker/cab is concerned....haven't done any experimentation such as replacing with another speaker and whatnot....mainly because, as I pointed out in a prior post, I can't believe the sounds I'm getting out of this thing....and I really liked the iii v2...so I'm very suprised myself....again, that sag setting seems to be the critical factor here as almost all the presets have "matched" as default....

The other thing I've noticed is that when the noise gate is "off", which seems to be the case in most presets, it affects the sound in a negative way, especially in conjunction with the amp placement option that u see at the very end of the amp settings, I mean the pre & post....put another way, when I want to create a patch, I first switch on the noise gate to at least "minimum"....then choose "post" as opposed to "pre"....and then opt for the "less" sag setting almost on every preset....these steps plus a few others here & there are my starting point and they get me to where i need to go pretty quickly after that...

I haven't tried it at super super loud volume but at moderate volume (with live drums), it was amazing....if I detected any squashing of the sound, it was musical to my ears....just like a warmed up tube amp at high volume, the kind of compression that i really like and has been almost impossible to get with a digital/modelling amp thus far....perhaps a better speaker/cab ups the ante even more....

I also agree that the online reviews are often brutal.....though its surprising to see that even so called "professional" reviewers sometimes fail to understand that u can't compare basically a straight forward digital amp such as the katana, which is the current flavor of the month, with a modelling amp such as the mustang, without adjusting some of the key parameters in any given patch on the modelling amp.....I've seen comparison videos where the 'tang sounded terrible just cause the wrong, or no cab, was selected....c'mon....they oughta know better....

the other thing that's surprising in some of these reviews is the "how well does it take external pedals test"....to each his own....but that defeats the whole purpose of a modelling amp, which supplies its own stompboxes...and is voiced so that said boxes sound good....if a modelling amp takes a stompbox well, it's just an added bonus....

Anyway, I for one, am super happy with the sounds I'm getting.....and I hope they don't touch a thing in that regard.....the functioning of the amp/tone app, however, needs a lot of work....

Luckily, and quite by fluke, I guess, I happen to have been in touch with a couple people on their development team quite extensively....as such, I remain optimistic.....

Circle early March on your calendars :)


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:21 pm
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I agree on the sag. Using any at all kills the dynamics so i always have every patch set to less. The gate tho i always keep off. Not sure what you mean tho when you say it doesn't sound good with the gate off. I don't like gates and this one is no exception so it stays off.

So what i'm hearing is update in a couple weeks. Nice. Anxious to see what they do, tho like you my fear is they change the basic tone is some way i don't like because unlike the old mustang you can't go back to a previous update with this one. Kinda scary. You could potentially update and have to sell the amp because it no longer sounds good enough to you. I really think this wifi update thing is a serious flaw in several ways.


Last edited by oczad on Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:25 pm
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I would take that bet depending on what you mean by 'soon'.


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:04 pm
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oczad wrote:

I agree on the modeling, but there are hardware issues that have been a huge issue with more than a few owners/potential owners that cannot necessarily be fixed via a firmware update. That being the GT's lack of switching options like the old mustang. I think they would need a V2 to do that and accept a second 2 button switch like you could do with the old amp or use a all new switch that could do it all in one.


Certainly it would take a H/W mod to accept a second switch on the amp itself, but it would seem feasible to piggyback a second switch in the same way as the expression pedal plugs in without doing a H/W mod. The S/W has to do all of the interpretation of the data stream coming in from the footswitch + expression pedal anyway. Whether Fender would find this worth the investment is another topic altogether.

I personally wish that Fender would make a MIDI interface, using the USB port or even the BT connection, to allow sophisticated users to program whatever kind of switching is wanted. Failing that, being able to program the footswitch to do things it doesn't currently do would solve a lot of the switching problems. Both of these options should be totally feasible via S/W only updates. Exposing this kind of functionality shouldn't be a huge deal either as long as the current firmware is even semi-decently architected :shock:


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:43 pm
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oczad wrote:
I agree on the sag. Using any at all kills the dynamics so i always have every patch set to less. The gate tho i always keep off. Not sure what you mean tho when you say it doesn't sound good with the gate off. I don't like gates and this one is no exception so it stays off.

So what i'm hearing is update in a couple weeks. Nice. Anxious to see what they do, tho like you my fear is they change the basic tone is some way i don't like because unlike the old mustang you can't go back to a previous update with this one. Kinda scary. You could potentially update and have to sell the amp because it no longer sounds good enough to you. I really think this wifi update thing is a serious flaw in several ways.


Yes....it's counter-intuitive, but I find that with the gate "off", something's amiss with the tone....u just gotta try it for yourself to see....again, normally gates kinda kill the tone....I don't find that to be the case here....something with the pre & post is interacting with the gate affecting the tone in a good way....weird...

I guess the one thing we can agree on is the basic tone, speaker/cab notwithstanding....

btw, I did also $@!&* to them - especially given the instability of the software - that we need to somehow be able to back up our patches a la fuse...

Oh, and one more weird thing with the GT....or with me....I find that the gt100 is the most "stereo-sounding" mono amp that I've ever had....especially using the tremolo effect....


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:31 pm
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I did try it but i didn't hear any difference. I tried it with the gate both pore and post but the only tone difference as with any gate is the tail end of the decay. Maybe it's the models you use or the way you set them, but for me i couldn't hear anything different. I'll try it again with other models and see if i hear it. What is the difference exactly that you are hearing?

EDIT: Tried a few more models and still i didn't notice it. Even made identical patches except one would have the gate on so i could switch back and fourth quickly but still can't hear anything. Are you on firmware version 1.5.20 ?


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:30 am
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oczad wrote:
I did try it but i didn't hear any difference. I tried it with the gate both pore and post but the only tone difference as with any gate is the tail end of the decay. Maybe it's the models you use or the way you set them, but for me i couldn't hear anything different. I'll try it again with other models and see if i hear it. What is the difference exactly that you are hearing?

EDIT: Tried a few more models and still i didn't notice it. Even made identical patches except one would have the gate on so i could switch back and fourth quickly but still can't hear anything. Are you on firmware version 1.5.20 ?


yes to firmware version...

the noise gate thing in&of itself is perhaps as you describe...and to be expected....but I feel, its interaction with some other parameter might be adding to the sound in a good way...hard to describe really, just a little more substance to the tone...that being said, the noise gate contribution, if any, is still very very small....

but even when on "off", the pre/post selection in the amp parameters + sag & bias make a big difference tonally....whereas "matched" was the better choice overall with the iii v2, I think fender should have chosen "less" as their default setting in order to showcase the GT....they did their product a disservice....as i've noticed a lot of the online reviews don't mention these necessary adjustments to the basic tone of the amp before judging it....


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Post subject: Re: I bet ya.....
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:08 am
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I too used matched with the old amp but less with this one. It didn't kill dynamics on matched like it does with the GT. One thing about the sag that i find odd on both amps is when you add more sag the volume goes down quite a bit, then when you turn the volume up to where it was b4 u added some sag, the feel of the sag u added is pretty much gone. So you are back where you were before the adjustment. So to me the sag doesn't really make any difference except to the bad, the worse dynamics.

As to the online reviews, i agree. Many don't bother to get the know the amp b4 reviewing it and no doubt the sag is left at matched, not to mention most seem to use stock patches which compared to a well crafted self made patch is like a $50 SS amp compared to a $2000 boutique amp. There's one idiot on you tube where he compared a GT40 to a katana and switched back in fourth between them with a super filtered (as he described it) sound with no mids and just horrible. Then he proceeds to tell you thats the way the amp sounds and plays the katana with a good sound, tho one i can more than match with my GT no problem. Guys like him a few outspoken others who also either have no idea how to tweak the amp or are just trying to give it a bad rep for whatever reason have killed the GT as far as the online crowd goes. No one even mentions it at any of the forums, yet the old amp that didn't sound near as good was revered. Just goes to show the shark feeding frenzy mentality in online communities. You have a few very visible people give glowing reviews on something and half the member of the forums go out and buy it. If it's crap no one says anything and the item gradually fades away and u never hear about it again. If it gets bad reviews from those people at the start everyone jumps on the hate bandwagon. Guys even went out and gave it a 5 minute test run at a store then reviewed it ! I understand those who dumped it because of functionality, but tone....naaa, they just have no ability to tweak it but THINK they do. One way i know is at another forum with the old amp i shared my main patch and several people PM;d me to tell me how good the amp sounds with it and it became thier man patch. Thats not to toot my own horn, thats just to show how lots of people don;t know how to tweak it perfectly, and if you don't get that last few % it's not gonna be great because as we have seen the difference between a average or even mediocre tube amp and a great one is usually only a small difference that makes the good one and breaks the cheaper one. But i still say the tone is far better with speaker/cab differences. At home volume however that's not near as big a deal, as those factors are multiplied many times at stage volume. Even there however it's acceptable now with the EQs the added last update. You can to a lot to fix things in the cab and speaker with that, but it's still a lot better with better hardware in that area.

EDIT: Tonite i plugged in and unlike other times i could not get the sound to revert to normal no matter what i did. Unplugged and replugged every cable, contact cleaner in all the jacks including the loops jacks, turned the amp on and off a number of times, tried playing with the settings then back to normal, twisted all the knobs, everything imaginable. Sounded like i was having my sound overdubbed with a banjo. Earlier in the day i played it several times and had it sounding normal doings some of the things i mentioned above, or it started up sounding normal. Next week i have a rare jam with friends that i always look forward to but i'm worried i'd be better off bringing a banjo. So tired of this words fail me. Gonna look and see if GC has any used Katanas. They have to be better then this.


Last edited by oczad on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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