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Post subject: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:41 am
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Aspiring Musician
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I never play out anymore but about every 2-3 months i get together with old bandmates for a jam. So l had a chance to try my latest speaker setup last nite. G12T-100 like the one in the MIII in the GT's cab, and a EV12L in an extention cab. Both are 8 ohms so the total load was the correct 4 ohms. Great sound. Unlike the other 4 or 5 jams i've had with the GT using the stock speaker or even the WGS ET-90 i tried, this time i was able to dial my sound in in about 3 minutes. Before i was screwing with it for 30 minutes to an hour and never quite got it where i wanted it. Didn't even need the EQ's they added in the last update ! Plently loud, great feel/dynamics. And i could really see this getting even better if i were still gigging because i'd be able to dial it in better and better over the course of a few months. But as is with only a jam 4-5 times a year it's hard to do. But what i got last nite was as good as i'd really need. I've had planty of tube amps that didn't sound and feel as good. Didn't really have to play with settings during the nite. Just played and forgot about the amp as it should be.

This amp really needs the proper speaker or speakerS to bring out it's best, and when it has that it's apparent the GT is easily capable of being a great gig amp. I just wish i could find a single 4 ohm speaker that sounded good enough in the GT so i could use that w/o a ext cab. But i really don't want to spend the $ and energy to find one, plus i'm not sure the GT's cab has very good acoustic qualities after having tried several speakers in it and in ext cabs where the same speaker always sounded a lot better in the ext cab.

On a side note, i never cared much about this before, but last nite i was wishing i could access some different patches via footswitch. But with the effects mode which i need to be on all the time, no way to do that but switch modes in the middle of songs then back in time if i need the effects mode. Not doable. That crosses the line between player and soundman and i can't be allowing that much of my concentration for that when i trying to play or play and sing. This is IMO the last necessity they have not addressed, but it's going to be a hardware issue so i don't see it happening. They really need to implement a similar switching setup to the old amp. I had everything i could need at my feet with the MIII, yet i used little of it because the amp didn't have all the good tones this one had. But the GT has so many usable possibilities i now COULD use the switching but now i don't have it ! How ironic. Oh well....after last nite thats nit picking. Great amp. But if they ever DO make a V2 of the GT......better sounding cab, better switching and a good speaker rather than that harsh thin sounding affair. then it will be one hell of a amp. By then however i'll probably be in a nursing home.


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:25 pm
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Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:23 am
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Location: Munich
This sounds good. I have an EV12L, which only waits to increase in worth. But my friend and me strongly doubt, we can hear the difference. We even think, it might get worse, but we won't notice that. Maybe all is just adjusted to that OEM celestion, which truly looks like second to the EV.

The difference between 4 or 8 Ohms is near 3dB, if the amplifier reaches 0 Ohm. (It doesn't)

Not really worth thinking about, if you have 100W.

Two speakers result in one sweet spot, other positions can only be worse, because always some higher frequency overlap to null, depending on the different distance to both speakers.
If you want to use two 12", connect a stereo amp to the line out. This imho will sound great with effects like chorus, ping-pong-delay...
And you have a more wide stereo base, compared to GT40 and 200.

I wonder how much it will lose weight, if I put in a neodym?


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:37 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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The 3 DB difference isn't the main reason not to run a higher load. It also sounds very different. It sounds darker with a 8 ohm load. Even the 12L loses top end when run by itself as opposed to with another speaker, same with the G12T-100. Together they get much brighter with the then 4 ohm load. This amp doesn't sound good with a 8 ohm load. I've tried 4 different speakers with this amp by themselves and together using either a parallel output to the ext cab or series depending on the load of the pair. Always sounds brighter (in a good way) with the proper load.


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:06 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:19 pm
Posts: 270
Time to saw off the top of the amp, and make it a head,
maybe reboxed with a power amp as QiuxX suggests.
Then establish your dream cab(s)
I'm learning a lot about speakers following these topics.
Cheers
(I can just picture the youtubes, "unboxing with a circular saw"
:twisted:


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:11 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I've been toying with that idea. (making a head cab) But the truth is i really don't need to fuss over things like that since i don't gig anymore so i likely won't bother.


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:27 pm
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Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:23 am
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Location: Munich
oczad wrote:
... It also sounds very different. It sounds darker with a 8 ohm load. Even the 12L loses top end when run by itself as opposed to with another speaker, same with the G12T-100. Together they get much brighter with the then 4 ohm load. ...


This is opposite to the feeling I have. Amps fight with fast movement. High tones are fast movement. To drive 8Ohms makes it only easier, than 4.

Maybe it sounds brighter, because you point the main axes of one speaker directly to your ear. Unfortunately even one speaker has a direction for frequency above about 500Hz.

BTW: EV doesn't claim the 12L above 7kHz. Afaik none 12" does. Referred to a hifi speaker, those stiff, hard paper sound awfully. Rough in frequency response but loud as hell.

This is what we want to hear, when we plug in a Stratocaster.


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:11 pm
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Ozcad, ive so what didn't you like about the WGS ET90, what style on music are you prone to? the ET90 was the speaker I was leaning toward until your post, I know you have done extensive work with amps and what not, I am wanting to keep the GT as my main amp for my band, but I don't want to get blown out of the water by other guitarists amps live. I plan to play out a lot, so ive been trying to get ways to make this amp more useable and closer to the real tube amps they mimic. You've seen me on many posts ask about the speaker an we both have read an commented on many posts on the subject. I was thinking between the GT, Hot rod, or blues jr nos, I think the GT can mimic all those tones to where it almost hard to tell the difference the EQs helped. But does the speaker really make that big of a difference? you think getting a 4 ohm solid speaker really upgrades the amp that much?

What speakers have you tried and what were your results? Im still toying with the idea of swapping speakers, I just hear from a lot of sources how big a difference it can make and help the tone, if you think a speaker swap could make this amp one that could be road worthy and hang with the common live music amps being used then I would def be willing to throw the money at the amp speaker cause I think all the FX are amazing an that saves money and wire issues with pedal boards an what not, not worrying about tubes anymore would be nice, light weight amp that's durable, and not a bank breaker of a price. If I can find the right speaker maybe this will be the amp I use for awhile. I loved the Jensen speaker in the Blues Jr nos I tried out at guitar center. It was only the 15 watt but if I am micd up that doesn't matter. I wonder if getting a Jensen speaker would get me closer to that real vintage guitar tone I am looking for. I don't think it does bad now, but I have to admit im a little hesitant to walk into a big show in a big city bar with good sized crowd and hook up my GT. People have such hate for digital, I am a tubed amp guy but when the sound is there its there idc what type of amp it is. If I could get the GT to sound as good as those other fender tubed combos like you said this amp would be one of the best out there. I love the GT I want to have it work out but its just hard cause digital hasn't won over the general populous quite yet. But someone with your history with amps I think would know if this amp is capable of quality sound as good as the other amps you see being used live all the time. You think the speaker that was in the Mustang III would be better then a Jensen or WGS ET90? I play jam music but we get heavy sometimes in our jams so I need versatility. Mostly the GT in my rig is used for cleans and FX, I use another amp live with ABY pedal for high gain, I don't dig the gain on the GT as much. I love like the Ts9 but for real true gain idk that's where it shows its digital side I feel.


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:55 am
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I swapped my stock speaker for a Celestion Hot 100, which is one of the few 12" 100 watt 4ohm guitar speakers available in the UK. I play blues and jazz, so no high gain stuff and about 1/3 of our set is 'unplugged' with acoustic guitars. I play Martin and Taylor electro-acoustics plus a Regal resonator with a cone pickup. My electric guitars are Fender Telecaster and Gibson ES335. I found that the Hot 100 was okay for electric guitar, not a massive difference but the stock speaker was much better for the acoustics - more transparency on the top end. Until the GT-100 has a proper acoustic guitar simulation, I am using a Fishman Platinum pre-amp into the AUX input. I also have a Blues Junior that I used before I got the GT-100 but I don't use it any more.


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:12 pm
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So you guys think the difference between the GT and like a hot rod, blues jr, or something like that is very small? I mean I haven't been through many fender amps, but I love the cleans, I play jam band stuff but we get a little heavy sometimes nothing that would get labeled metal but I love having that punchy distortion but as far as for cleans, and just overall tone the GT really keeps up with the more popular gigging amps? Im still early into my original band playing live, ive played covers a lot but I want my sound to be able to be serviceable for bigger shows not meaning volume but meaning I don't want to be viewed as a newb or have an amp that cant deliver live like if we open for a band an then they bring out their blues jrs or hot rods, does the GT hold up to in tone with these amps? im trying to be brave and stick with my guns like when I bought this amp cause I believed then the digital world atleast for cleans and little distortion had gotten it figured out. I mean I wouldn't mind throwing money into a speaker for the GT if one could dramatically better the tone all around. I like low end compression an nice warm full chords clean and distorted. Im not a huge fan of the high end twangy stuff, the orange amp speaker are great but a little to much bass. I wanted the WGS ET90 until I seen some bad reviews that may lead me to stray away from that one. Cause I want it to clean up the amp give it that nice ton but still maintain that full warmth feel. and the speaker hopefully that I find can take distortion good. Don't need a metal type speaker but something powerful and room filling thick and clear. I wish I knew more about speakers or a shop near me had them so I could try them out but no one does and I don't want to just order speaker after speaker ya know. the Jensen in the blues jr nos sounded pretty solid the tubes could have helped more then the speaker but I liked it.


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:19 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:19 pm
Posts: 270
Amplitube 4 Custom Shop software has a trove of Fender models
in V1 and V2 bundles. The shop lets you demo individual gear models
for 48 hours, twice yearly. (you must be online when testing) This would let you
hear the quality of other peoples versions, which often get good reviews,
no money lost. You get a standalone ampsim with built-in recorder,
and a plugin for use in daw apps. Their account and product management
work really well, and send only a few spams each year, when a major promotion
is announced. ikmultimedia dot com

here's a very short review:

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/ik-mu ... e-fender-2

Cheers


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:00 pm
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Ozcad, what style of music do you play? you seem to be much like myself and believe this amp can be solid. I am finally coming to terms with the most cost efficient way to upgrade the GT to make it Live gig worthy is to change the speaker. I am only using the GT for cleans and fx and light distortion, nothing heavier then the TS9 really, " I ABY to another amp live for needs of higher gain" but selling the amp would only put me about at the price of a used tubed combo like hot rods and blues jrs without all the FX I would have to start buying pedals again. So I finally think that even if I don't like the GT still after speaker swap I would still use the speaker on my next amp so its a win win of sorts. The speaker that seems to be the most consistent and not a huge amount of money is the WGS et90. I like tight low end punchy tone, hopefully the 90 with be still good on Funk chords and what not, the ET65 seems like its a little darker. So what did you not like about the ET90? and did were you only able to find it in 8ohms? I don't know much on speakers but it sounds like if I am only going to get 1X12 I need to get a 4ohm. But, I do use the Y channel of my tonebone with the orange crush 35rt which really helps the overall sound now to where it nearly enough for me as is. I think a speaker would make me feel a lot more confident in gigging with the GT longer. Just trying to decide what speaker to go with......

The orange amps voice of the world speakers are great speakers but have a lot of low end, the tone bone jx2 has an amazing mid transparent mid boost that really help either amps used alone or together. SSSOOOO my main concern is if I get the ET90 will it be a little to much bass with the two speakers seemingly being well equipped with plenty of lows on board eqs can prob help dial the GT speaker in I was just wondering is that something I should consider? I tend to use the Y channel on both amps for cleans and have the GT be the FX side and orange side stays dry is actually works really well, that why I think with a new speaker the GT can be more utilized on its side on things. I am basically almost running an extension cab by running the Y an both amps so what didn't you like about the ET90? and is there a speaker you think would work better for me and the tone I am searching for?

I am sure anything will sound much better then the stock speaker, a lot of reviews seem to love the ET90, if you don't mind me asking what didn't you like about it in the GT? and can you describe the tone it did give. What one person hates another might like. I play stuff like the dead, moe, funk, blues, and hard rock I like high gain but I stop right before it gets to "metal sounding with distortion" which is why I think I love the crush series so much since they redid the series and put new transistors in. Ive always love orange amp gain but tubed, they are a little to heavy. The crushes being solid state are a little less aggressive, they can get real metal but they can also deliver great rock tones. So if I am looking to get a single 1x12 speaker to run alone sometimes and in conjuction with the oranges speaker do you think the ET 90 would still be a good fit in the GT? if not what speaker do you think would be best? it sounds like whatever brand I get I better try to find 4 ohm I appreciate any advice, as I believe the GT is a great amp for bands in their starting stages in the bar scene, if a speaker swap will really add that much better tone overall, then I think its worth a shot if I do enjoy the GT and I do. I think it catches more flack then it deserved. Fender did miss a opportunity to really captivate the customers by not putting a quality speaker in the amp but we already know all this. So im interested to hear your reviews thanks for any help!!!


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:53 pm
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I don't know what to tell you. The ET90 sounded dull to me after awhile and after trying others again and comparing, like my EV and celestion 100. But i don't know what'll do it for you. I'm a EV fanatic and for ME this amp needs a EV or clone but no one makes one in 4 ohm, plus to fit a speaker as big you need to remove the board seperating the chassis from the speaker. Thats why i run a EV in a ext cab and a celestion in the amp. The pair = 4 ohms and i get my EV fix. I've told you everything i possibly can about my experience with the GT and speakers and as i told you long ago, you need to buy and experiment. You keep posting the same question over and over but thats the only real answer.


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:01 pm
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Not to be a dick, cause I have gathered much information from your posts over not just the GT but other amps in general. If you choose not to answer the questions or feel they will serve me no purpose then that's your belief. When you are in my situation a younger gigging musician on a budget I read an sort through the bull and find guys like you with their info cause to me that's the best way to learn in some cases especially when it such a new amp. You have stated many posts telling your ventures with speaker swapping, regardless of the tone your after or the one I am after I can take away a lot from even the littlest info and that stacked with the other resources I use helps me narrow down the right steps to take rather then diving down a million different rabbit holes an losing money. I don't see the point of you making a thread telling us of your night with the 2 x12s if you didn't want to explain an your points and stuff. You def don't have to respond to anything or share anything, but as stated ive followed your posts on other topics you seem like you are a veteran with amps and I am trying to learn the best way to go about either upgrading my amp or moving on. I am much like you I love the GT so if the right speakers are giving you that tone with all the amps you have heard in your day and worked on as you stated in other threads, those statements make my ears perk up cause I love the GT I have stuck with it since the beginning and think its a great amp, but I don't have half the years experience or knowledge you seem to have on amps of all kinds. So excuse me for probing but I am trying to put together the best rig I can for playing live on a budget, and I love amps and an a gear nerd so if bugging with questions is what I have to do then I will.

even when you stated " I don't know what to tell you" you gave me some good info on speakers, it may be your opinion just one person but I certainly don't go by one persons opinion and as I said I can usually tell people on the threads who have great knowledge that can save other $100s and hours of headache time tinkering so more time can be spent playing. lol if you continually post on these threads we are all obviously the minority that believe in the GT being great amps for all purposes studio, home, live, or anything else. Regardless, ive learned a lot from your posts. I appreciate the knowledge. I am no newb I don't expect our ideas of great tone can be drastically different views but Ive still learned a lot about the brands, and about ohms through your posts or I would've never known any better so you may think your info is useless but it most certainly isn't to people who are really wanting to make the GT the amp I know it can be. Sorry for bugging and im still interested in anything further you post about your findings and thoughts.

I was actually leaning toward the WGS ET90 but your posts on the EV made me want to research them a little more. cheers man


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:10 pm
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I am actually bummed if that's really the case that no 4 ohm 12s are out there? you walked through how to change a speaker awhile back so it seems easy enough to do, but if it is really that hard to find a 4 ohm 12 in these brands, then I don't think building an extension cab would be up my alley, but I bet you have the GT sounding amazing. If you post any videos anywhere it would be cool to hear the work you have done. Who knows after hearing it, it may make it worth It. What you save in fx pedals, maintenance, light weight, xlr outs, and other perks atleast makes the GT an good argument for a good live amp. Now the major updates have finally happened. It just a matter of "is that stock speaker really that crappy?" I wouldn't know what makes a good guitar speaker vs a good streaming speaker


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Post subject: Re: Had a go with 2x12's last nite
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:50 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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There are 4's out there, just not a lot. You can use a 8 ohm tho, it'll just lose a bit of volume but if it;s a high SPL speaker you'll gain it back. Like the EV12L which i now have in mine. I swapped it from the ext cab into the GT and put the G12T100 in the ext cab. Great tone but now it even sounds good w/o the ext cab and the EV gets loud. Had to build a new wood panel that seperates the chassis from the speaker tho because the EV wouldn't fit. Now it does. You may not like the EV, as they tend not to sound good when u r used to more typical sounding guitar speakers, but when you use em live the are killer. Not as much sound wise as dynamically and touch responsiveness. But I'm sure there are other high SPL speakers at 4 ohm that would be good, but it's a matter of time and $ and i can't do that for you. I've always been a EV freak so to me thats the ultimate, and even at 8 ohms it works well. There are some 4 ohm EV's out there that were made for certain amp manufacturers but they are very rare.
https://ibb.co/i7wFnw

Hummm....img function doesn't work here? It offers img tags in the edit window but it doesn't work. So theres the link to a pic anyways.


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