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Post subject: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:04 am
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Hi all
Oczad has spoken about his experience with the wgs et 90.
I have a spare et 65 ( currently in a Technical 21 trademark 60) and am going to give it a try despite the wattage rating.
Anyone else tried any different speaker or have any suggestiond / opinions about alternative speakers?


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:06 am
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Forgot to say I love the et65. It really made a difference in the Trademark 60.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:26 am
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The ET65 will be fine but of course it should be used cautiously since it's a 65 watt speaker. The GT100 is supposedly 100 watts but i doubt it is for a few reasons. But even with that a 65w speaker would be pushing your luck IF you happen to crank it all the way. Also note that the GT uses a 4 ohm speakers and if that speaker you intend to use is 8 ohms which is very likely, the amp will not be quite as loud. I tried a couple 8's and they were not as loud as either the stock 4 ohm or the ET90 which is 4. Even the EV12L wasn't !

So try it and just don't crank it and you'll be fine and it will tell you whether you like it. A few things to remember tho.

1-the speaker upgrades big advantage is at louder volumes. If you only intend to use it at home you may even like the stock one better because at low volumes it's brighter nature works well for very low volumes where with ANY amp and normal guitar speaker you always find the tone to be rather mushy and with no punch. Thats not to say the ET90 is lousy low, it's not. But the stock one may seem livelier very low . But thats the nature of pretty much any amp with a typical guitar speaker, but the stock speaker is the opposite of most guitar speakers in that it sounds good low but once you start getting up anywhere near stage volume, even low stage volume, the stock speaker gets very harsh and thin compared to a regular guitar speaker. I still don't like the stock speaker as much as the ET90 at low volumes tho those because the feel is just sorta ....well, digital i guess is the best way i can describe it.

2- be sure to evaluate it both low and high volumes but also be sure to change the settings on your patches to compensate for the different sound because any tweaks you have done were done to make the amp sound good with a very different speaker. So don't make the mistake of just trying the speaker and judging the tone immediately w/o tweaking to compensate for the difference.

3- if you decide this is the way to go i would suggest getting a proper rated speaker thats 4 ohms. I like the ET90 but you may prefer something else. The ET65 will sound similar from all i have read so if you like it with that a ET90 is a safe bet. Whatever you get also make sure the SPL isn't very low. You don't want to lose any volume because these amps aren't real loud to begin with. I thin the ET90 is about 99dB so i'd say try not to go any lower then that. If you go down to say 97 you may lose the extra volume a proper 4 ohm speaker makes over the ET65, assuming your 65 is indeed 8.

4-finally, i would try this tho it's just my opinion but i think its a good idea. To be sure you want a different speaker, i would suggest you use the ET65 for at least a few days or a week at all volumes then put the stock back in a compare. Thats when the difference will become more apparent than ever because you will have had enough time with the ET for your ears to adjust and tweak the amp. I would suggest saving the patches you like as they were with the stock speaker to some different slots and tweak them for the ET when you put that in. Then when you go back to compare the stock after a time with the ET you can go right to the pre ET patches you made with the stock speaker so the comparison is fair.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:02 am
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How hard is it to swap speaker manually? I'm not to familiar with that aspect of amps is sounds simple if you can swap out An back pretty quickly to compare.... has anyone made the swap for another speak? If so how much of difference did or can it truly make? I personally love the fender channels cleans and I have a ts9 tubescreamer an they go great together and even the ts9 mock on the amp is solid it's the only distortion pedal I'll use on that amp compression pedal can come in handy on this amp An somewhat transparent overdrive An can add more punch An tightness I've noticed but it's such a pain dialing it in... so I'm been thinking of finding a way to make he mustang jsut a little more stages worthy permanently... speaker swap was one of the first I thought, I just haven't heard many people's take on how it sounded after word an if they likes it and if so what did it add to the mix simply volume or was it more of an actual tube amp feel
Particaly the distortion channel... I'm gigging in some decent venues An playing with some good band that ofcourse have great amp I'm rolling with my stang in small bars hell I don't even need micd bigger bars the fender patches are great all of them even the Princeton I love.. my buddy had a kemper An he almost envied how close the stang came to the real thing... I think the distortion is where it get analogy feel which obviously it's analog. So I thought either speaker change to maybe give it more umph more just in your face natural orange amp crunch, I also wondered if like a small watt head like a tiny terror could be ran to the stang And used with an A/B pedal for distortion to mustang obviously I wouldn't get the effects of the mustang on the orange but I've been seeing it's possible to run a head unit to a speaker through the loop as long as wattage An specs matched up so the speaker doesn't get over powered so a tiny terror would be my best example if I could accomplish that An get that orange distortion An then have my mustang for all other things I have me one solid rig that's very portable An dynamic while the band is still in our cover/originals phase it's nice to have a dynamic amp to cover all things but for bigger shows I'm really trying to start thinking of upgrading my rig I think the stang with stay even if I go to my last idea which was buy a orange combo amp "or a solid distortion amp I'm just in love with orange amps ATM I could do a peavy, Marshall are just a little to high end squeel for me, I like palm mutting crunch basically a orange amp at half gain or less is where I would lIve an I think the stang will stay in my rig for awhile if I can get the distortion to sound as raw An true and the fender patches do


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:00 am
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Cbryand88 wrote:
How hard is it to swap speaker manually? I'm not to familiar with that aspect of amps is sounds simple if you can swap out An back pretty quickly to compare.... has anyone made the swap for another speak? If so how much of difference did or can it truly make? I personally love the fender channels cleans and I have a ts9 tubescreamer an they go great together and even the ts9 mock on the amp is solid it's the only distortion pedal I'll use on that amp compression pedal can come in handy on this amp An somewhat transparent overdrive An can add more punch An tightness I've noticed but it's such a pain dialing it in... so I'm been thinking of finding a way to make he mustang jsut a little more stages worthy permanently... speaker swap was one of the first I thought, I just haven't heard many people's take on how it sounded after word an if they likes it and if so what did it add to the mix simply volume or was it more of an actual tube amp feel
Particaly the distortion channel... I'm gigging in some decent venues An playing with some good band that ofcourse have great amp I'm rolling with my stang in small bars hell I don't even need micd bigger bars the fender patches are great all of them even the Princeton I love.. my buddy had a kemper An he almost envied how close the stang came to the real thing... I think the distortion is where it get analogy feel which obviously it's analog. So I thought either speaker change to maybe give it more umph more just in your face natural orange amp crunch, I also wondered if like a small watt head like a tiny terror could be ran to the stang And used with an A/B pedal for distortion to mustang obviously I wouldn't get the effects of the mustang on the orange but I've been seeing it's possible to run a head unit to a speaker through the loop as long as wattage An specs matched up so the speaker doesn't get over powered so a tiny terror would be my best example if I could accomplish that An get that orange distortion An then have my mustang for all other things I have me one solid rig that's very portable An dynamic while the band is still in our cover/originals phase it's nice to have a dynamic amp to cover all things but for bigger shows I'm really trying to start thinking of upgrading my rig I think the stang with stay even if I go to my last idea which was buy a orange combo amp "or a solid distortion amp I'm just in love with orange amps ATM I could do a peavy, Marshall are just a little to high end squeel for me, I like palm mutting crunch basically a orange amp at half gain or less is where I would lIve an I think the stang will stay in my rig for awhile if I can get the distortion to sound as raw An true and the fender patches do


It is very easy to change speakers. Undo the nuts, remove the spade connects, lift it out and do the reverse with the new one. There are many types of 12" speakers, each with their own distinctive voicing, which is also influenced by cabinet. Guitar speakers tend to have more mids than regular speakers so, where a guitar speaker will improve some of the Mustang's presets at higher volume levels, it will make some of them less good.

If you have a bottomless wallet, trial and error is the way to go. I will just re-itterate what oczad said about making sure that the speaker 'matches' the amp in impedance and power handling. The Mustang GT-100 is 100 watts into 4 ohms. Put an 8 ohm speaker in there and you will get 50 watts. Putting a 2 ohm speaker in will give you 200 watts - for a very short time.

If you like Orange amps, they tend to use Celestion Vintage 30s or something called 'Voice of the World' that I don't know. Like all the classic amps, these are relatively low power speakers and break up nicely when pushed. No 100 watt speaker is going to behave like that, even from the same manufacturer. If you are looking for 4 ohm, 100 watt speakers, your choices are limited and they are not going to sound like a vintage Celestion or Jenson. I guess, that's why we have 'modelling' these days. Modelling is now very good and very accurate.

In an ideal world, you should be able to A/B audition different speakers in a Mustang cabinet, at different levels, but I don't think that there is a dealership in the World that will be able to do that. Hopefully 'trial and error' won't become 'error and error' ;?)


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:08 am
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stratocaster1983 wrote:
Cbryand88 wrote:
I just haven't heard many people's take on how it sounded after word an if they likes it and if so what did it add to the mix simply volume or was it more of an actual tube amp feel


2 people at the TGP forum bought WGS ET90's on my suggestion and both were happy with the result. Volume is not different than the stock speaker, but where it differs in the stock is much brighter with hi mids that become overbearing the louder you go. The WGS is much more balanced and smoother at stage volume. Another advantage is the feel is much more like a real tube amp. The stock speaker feels artificial in that the attack seems to hit a wall when you pick harder. Like a tube amp, with the WGS the attach has more compression when you dig in hard. The stock feels like it's hits a wall when you dig in with a hard feeling attack. Much like what you hated about solid state amps back in the day. And by the way, i have tried 2 other speakers in it and both were improvement in the same way, tho the ET90 was best. I tried the stock speaker from my old mustang MIII and probably would have just used that but it was 8 ohms and lost a fair amount of volume. So i started looking at speakers and found a lot of great reviews on the ET90 and tonal descriptions that sounded like what i wanted. But most any good "normal" guitar speaker with enough power handling and SPL rating would likely be a improvement over the stock speaker.

As to installing it, i can do it in about 3 minutes. Dirt simple and super quick with a power screwdeiver. Add probably 5 minutes or more with a hand screwdriver. But to add to what strat83 said, also nite you;ll need to remove that little bottom back panel, as it's hard or impossible to maneuver the speaker out and in with that on.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:04 pm
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Awesome info guys!!!! So in the end if I am really trying to continue playing live with the Mustang Gt, you gents think changing the speaker is a must? It seems like a not to expensive way to really add to the bang, the weird thing with the Mustang GT 100 stock speaker is, I don't mind it at all with the Fender patches and with a ts9 one real one and one from the GTs stockpile on stomp boxes. I think the difference is harder to hear, meaning to my ears it doesn't sound like an modeling amp as much vs the distortion channel. Don't get me wrong I think this amp does a great job at all it does sound wise. I just want a little more raw feel when I go to a heavier patch, like the orange patch, I think that's where you hear that compressed wall being hit, I've always been more then happy with the fender patches. I think this amp has better cleans then a real orange combo, I think that's what I cant give it up, is cuz it can do the fender cleans and with a real Ts9 like I have on my board she sounds great. Just that damn distortion channel.

So if it came down to it for you guys would it be likelier to love the amp after changing the speaker more for the pure distortion patches, or bite the bullet and buy the orange combo amp and run and A/B, for some reason I want to keep the Mustang in my rig, partially to show the skeptics how well an modeling amp can perform and who they should not be viewed as tinker toys anymore. I still love my tubed amps and there will be one in my rig but I think the Mustang can def hold its own for the pros in areas. I may change the speaker if you guys think its really worth it and it would make that big of a difference in the quality of the amp. I must say I do enjoy the lows of the stock amp cause when I use my Ibanez Ts-9 its a pedal that pushes mids more, so with that on it sounds gets a little more balanced but much like you guys said at high volumes it breaks up. how much are speaker usually costing?

For those of you who have changed, was and is it really night and day and a must do if I plan to use this amp to gig with, if it improves the quality of sound that much and makes it sound that much more authentic, it sounds like its a no brainer must do upgrade!!!!


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:57 pm
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I don't know. I don't have your ears or particular tonal expectations. All i know is it's a must for ME. You may dislike it for all i know. All one can do is tell you what they hear and you have to take from that whether it sounds like something that will work for you. But thats all i or anyone else can do, and after that it's up to you to take the risk. My best advice to you is play the GT thru a different speaker if you have other amps or speakers. You can even make up a cable with clip ends or whatever to hear another speaker w/o removing it from another amp. Of course the different cab will affect it some but that way you can get an idea whether it's for you or not., Thats how i did it, tho i DID remove it from one amp and put it in the GT so i wouldn't be hearing the cab of the other amp's influence. I tried the speaker in my MIII and that told me the stock speaker was adding what i didn't like about the amp. It''s also the ONLY way you will know. I've already done all that can be done with words, but thats only a small help. Your ears are the only thing that will tell you and trying another speaker you already have is the only way to know for sure whether you'll be happy buying a speaker for it.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:22 pm
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Hi all..................
Well I put the WGS ET65 in my GT100 this morning to try, and I have to say it was a revelation!
I mean, really, it just sounded fabulous.
All of the things described by Oczad.......... warmth, but no flubb. Tames the highs. Just suits me.
I put some nice pedals in front (Mad Professor Sweet Honey Overdrive Deluxe; Voodoo Labs Giggity and a Mooer Pure Boost) and my Boss MS3 in the loop.
Pedals sound so much better. Really useable.
Delays and Mods in the loop ............. great!

The on board stuff is also fine. The drives are particularly improved to my ear, and easier to dial in.

Well a 2 hour play and I'm convinced. Have put in an order for the ET90 today.

Cheers!


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:38 pm
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Thats great. Be sure to post your thoughts on the ET65 vs ET90. They say they sound close but i'm curious to hear what the difference is in the GT100.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:12 am
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Do you still use cab modelling when swapping the speaker?


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:24 am
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Yes. It sounds horrible w/o a cab sim. The cab sims are there to give the particular cab's character to the sound THRU a guitar speaker and cab. A device like the kemper or helix is different. They are voiced to be played thru a FR system so the cabs are voiced for that while the mustangs are voiced to go thru a traditional guitar cab/speaker so the sims only add the basic character of certain cabs. But in this mustang they decided to use a speaker thats somewhere between a guitar speaker and FR to improve bluetooth streaming. Hence the improvement when adding a normal guitar speaker. It's all about the overall voicing to achieve the best result given what kind of speaker system an amp is intended to work with.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:22 am
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Interesting, When I play on my III v1 I almost never use cab sims and I get very good results. I thought it would be even better with the new series.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:04 am
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LucasDC030 wrote:
Interesting, When I play on my III v1 I almost never use cab sims and I get very good results. I thought it would be even better with the new series.


I've heard that before from at least one other person (maybe it was you at another forum?) and it's so puzzling to me i just don't know what to make of it. I still have my MIIIV2 of 5 years (going in CL soon tho) and it sounds just as bad if not worse than the GT when i try it w/o cabs. Sounds like plugging your guitar straight into a boom box or a console etc. Unusable. So how some are happy with that is so beyond me i can't even think of a single possible scenario that could account for it. I think it's good to have tho because if you ever wanted to use a outboard cab sim pedal in the loop you could by turning the internal sims off. On a side note, i've been considering trying that some day because IMO it's the cab sims that are the single biggest change you can make to a preset and can totally change it radically. But there are only a few i like so that could be a way to more and better tones.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker Upgrade experience
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:16 am
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oczad wrote:
LucasDC030 wrote:
Interesting, When I play on my III v1 I almost never use cab sims and I get very good results. I thought it would be even better with the new series.


I've heard that before from at least one other person (maybe it was you at another forum?) and it's so puzzling to me i just don't know what to make of it. I still have my MIIIV2 of 5 years (going in CL soon tho) and it sounds just as bad if not worse than the GT when i try it w/o cabs. Sounds like plugging your guitar straight into a boom box or a console etc. Unusable. So how some are happy with that is so beyond me i can't even think of a single possible scenario that could account for it. I think it's good to have tho because if you ever wanted to use a outboard cab sim pedal in the loop you could by turning the internal sims off. On a side note, i've been considering trying that some day because IMO it's the cab sims that are the single biggest change you can make to a preset and can totally change it radically. But there are only a few i like so that could be a way to more and better tones.


But alternative speakers already are voiced so why changing it even further with an extra layer of eq(cab sim)? The stock speaker of the gt is indeed a bad one and gives you the unpleasant harshness etc but the v1's speaker is more like a regular speaker. Recording with xlr of usb is unusable without cab sim but that is another story :)


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