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Post subject: Getting The Right Tube Amp
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:29 pm
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Hello, I play lead guitar with a group that plays without amplifiers directly into the PA, with monitors. Recently I have added effects pedals of compression, overdrives, digital delays, and reverb. Previuosly I was teeing off to a Fender 40W Acoustasonic amp and out to the PA board. This was to have a consistent guitar monitor on stage, which I now want to replace with a tube amp of good quality and somewhat portable.

My next step is to look into having effects inputs. I want the sound to be as nice as possible within limits. The Fender Super Sonic 60 has input level controls for the FX loop, at $1399 and about 50 pounds. However Marshall makes a DSL 40C (40W) amp at $699 and a DSL 5C (5W) amp at $499; very portable. Mesa Boogie also has a few 15W - 65W amps with FX connections.

I will probably not own a 100W amp head and speaker cabinets any time soon.

Today I drove 100 miles to sound demo a Fender Princeton Reverb 68' 12W amp, and the Marshall DSL 5W. The Fender sounded very percussive, but the Marshall was a bit flat sounding to me.

My concern is how to go from being a beginner to getting a nice quality amp and effects sound and to avoid a costly learning experience. My limits are the Marshall DSL 5 watt as a minimum for $499, and the Fender Supersonic 60 for $1399 at the high end- although the added weight is a slight concern for 1 hour concerts and then packing up after.

Might anyone have helpful suggestions?

Thank you,
Craig


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Post subject: Re: Getting The Right Tube Amp
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:03 am
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:14 pm
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Location: Linningrad
Fender Deluxe Reverb. Take your pick: Original Blackface; Silverface, '65 reissue, or new '68 custom. My vote goes to the '68 custom.
http://www.fender.com/guitar-amplifiers/vintage-pro-tube/%E2%80%9968-custom-deluxe-reverb/2274000000.html#product-grid=&start=1

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Post subject: Re: Getting The Right Tube Amp
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:12 pm
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I would suggest you add the Mesa Boogie .50 Caliber to your list of possibles. They are no longer made but come up for sale in the used market from time to time for far less than the $1400 you mentioned. I'm in the process of obtaining one right now. 50 watts, 1x12 combo. They have wonderful chimey cleans and a rocking drive tone.

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Post subject: Re: Getting The Right Tube Amp
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:17 am
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:27 am
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I had the SuperSonic 60. While it's very good sounding (and the FX loop, especially with input levels, is very useful), it had it's own problems. I had to take it to a tech about 3 times in a year (I bought it used, but still..) and after the 2nd time I said if something goes wrong again, I'll sell it up. That's what I did when it didn't turn on on a gig, luckily I was able to borrow a Fender Pro Reverb that was on the stage at the time. But I sold it soon after and bought a Fender Deluxe Reverb. I like it more because it's slightly easier (although not that much of a difference in weight to be honest), it has been far more reliable thus far and it isn't as loud. It's a comfortable 22W which I can turn up just enough to get that shimmering sound I want. The 60W was too much, even when I turned it down via FX loop levels.
So if you have the chance, try out a Deluxe Reverb. Imho it's just the right amount of power, top quality, awesome sound, etc. It's a great platform to build upon, just don't mess it up with having cheap, tone-sucking pedals in front. It doesn't have a loop, but it doesn't matter much if you don't run it high enough that the amp distorts a lot on its own.

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Post subject: Re: Getting The Right Tube Amp
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:27 am
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm
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idealassets wrote:
My concern is how to go from being a beginner to getting a nice quality amp and effects sound and to avoid a costly learning experience.


As I'm sure the OP is starting to gather by now, as with most things music gear related, everyone is gonna have their favorite. As with our choice of guitars, pedals or anything else, there's no real right or wrong, as much as what simply works best for the individual. That said, I wanted to address this portion of the OP's comment specifically because it really makes it sound as though we're looking for some sort of "magic fix" here.

At the risk of being perfectly blunt, there isn't a single amp (or guitar or pedal...), regardless of brand, tube or otherwise, that will make a "beginner" sound more like a pro. As I and many others have often said, the single greatest factor that affects your tone is you. If you wish to "avoid costly learning experiences", then simply learn to play better BEFORE you invest a dime in another amp (or guitar, pedal, etc). In this case, it's very similar to photography...a lot of inexperienced people have the misconception that the bad snapshots they get are somehow due to the camera...if they only had a better camera, then they could take better pictures. The truth however is that a GOOD photographer can use even a simple point and shoot camera and get amazing images. Same goes for guitar...I've heard guys who use the rattiest equipment you can imagine who can bring tears to your eyes because their playing is THAT good. A great guitar player can sound amazing thru humble equipment, however even using the most expensive gear on the planet, a beginner is still going to sound like a beginner. It's NOT the gear...it's the person using it.

I will say that the choice of amp is most often driven by the style of music you play...something I noticed the OP never even mentioned. For example, a great many country and blues players tend to favor a Fender Twin, where as many metal players may prefer that Marshall stack. Personally as someone who does mostly classic rock and oldies covers, I use a Lab L5 for most gigs and I've even used my little Roland Microcube for some recent recordings...both of which I might add are solid state. I also use a Bugera V22 (22 watt 1 x12 tube combo) and I've frequently used my little Peavey Backstage...not the greatest sounding amp, but it's reliable, loud and VERY easy on the lower back. In any case, for a "beginner" the difference really just isn't that significant at all.

So with that said, my first suggestion for the OP would be to simply keep practicing with the amp you already have. Again a new amp, tube or otherwise isn't going to make you sound better if your simply an inexperienced player. My second suggestion is that if you're simply suffering from a good case of GAS (as many of us do), then simply get the amp that sounds best to you...Marshall, Fender, Mesa...they're all good brand names. Only your ears, hands and heart can decide what is actually right for you.

Just some things to consider.


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Post subject: Re: Getting The Right Tube Amp
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:50 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:12 am
Posts: 13
lomitus wrote:
idealassets wrote:
My concern is how to go from being a beginner to getting a nice quality amp and effects sound and to avoid a costly learning experience.


As I'm sure the OP is starting to gather by now, as with most things music gear related, everyone is gonna have their favorite. As with our choice of guitars, pedals or anything else, there's no real right or wrong, as much as what simply works best for the individual. That said, I wanted to address this portion of the OP's comment specifically because it really makes it sound as though we're looking for some sort of "magic fix" here.

At the risk of being perfectly blunt, there isn't a single amp (or guitar or pedal...), regardless of brand, tube or otherwise, that will make a "beginner" sound more like a pro. As I and many others have often said, the single greatest factor that affects your tone is you. If you wish to "avoid costly learning experiences", then simply learn to play better BEFORE you invest a dime in another amp (or guitar, pedal, etc). In this case, it's very similar to photography...a lot of inexperienced people have the misconception that the bad snapshots they get are somehow due to the camera...if they only had a better camera, then they could take better pictures. The truth however is that a GOOD photographer can use even a simple point and shoot camera and get amazing images. Same goes for guitar...I've heard guys who use the rattiest equipment you can imagine who can bring tears to your eyes because their playing is THAT good. A great guitar player can sound amazing thru humble equipment, however even using the most expensive gear on the planet, a beginner is still going to sound like a beginner. It's NOT the gear...it's the person using it.

I will say that the choice of amp is most often driven by the style of music you play...something I noticed the OP never even mentioned. For example, a great many country and blues players tend to favor a Fender Twin, where as many metal players may prefer that Marshall stack. Personally as someone who does mostly classic rock and oldies covers, I use a Lab L5 for most gigs and I've even used my little Roland Microcube for some recent recordings...both of which I might add are solid state. I also use a Bugera V22 (22 watt 1 x12 tube combo) and I've frequently used my little Peavey Backstage...not the greatest sounding amp, but it's reliable, loud and VERY easy on the lower back. In any case, for a "beginner" the difference really just isn't that significant at all.

So with that said, my first suggestion for the OP would be to simply keep practicing with the amp you already have. Again a new amp, tube or otherwise isn't going to make you sound better if your simply an inexperienced player. My second suggestion is that if you're simply suffering from a good case of GAS (as many of us do), then simply get the amp that sounds best to you...Marshall, Fender, Mesa...they're all good brand names. Only your ears, hands and heart can decide what is actually right for you.

Just some things to consider.


+1

Evaluate want vs need. I have crap (pricey crap) that I wanted but didn't need, when in fact all I NEED to do is practice more.

I will say unless you guys play in clubs/theaters/arenas, don't go more than a DR, but as he said, your bands sound influences this too.


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Post subject: Re: Getting The Right Tube Amp
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:50 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 210
lomitus says it best ... you have to "know" your sound before you go looking to buy it ... and that takes practice. I could tell you that I use an Ibanez TSA-30H (30W head with built in TS-808 circuitry) and a custom 1 X 12" Jazz voiced cab. Okay ... but the point about what do you play now becomes crucial. I play heavily Jazz influenced blues and some not-intended-to-be-like-the-original classic rock. I don't use distortion, use only mild OD to sweeten solos and other FX very sparingly.

Yep, I did consider practicalities too. The 30W head isn't all that heavy and the separate cab helps. At 63, my back appreciates my modular approach to stage gear. The built in TS eliminates about the only pedal I ever consistently brought with me. Even a potentially overlooked thing like a mute switch (useful during breaks when you have single coil Teles plugged in) were all on my list before I went to buy. How many watts? Well I knew from experience (from getting back into playing with groups) that my Fender Champ SCXD wasn't giving me quite enough headroom when working with keys, bass and drums. But I also knew that 60W was at the very upper limit because (old experience here), tube amps work best if you have the volume up some. Etc., etc. ... these were all the things going through my head along with knowing already what "my" sound was.

The gear (as many will tell you) is really secondary once you've got that sound you're happy with.


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