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Post subject: Stage fright
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:33 am
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Hi everyone - I just started getting back into playing guitar about a year ago. I played for twenty years or so - basement bands, storage-bin bands, informal jams - and I was pretty unschooled, played by ear and usually not very well. Quit for 20 years, then took it back up a year ago with lessons. (Yeah, I'm an old guy...)

My guitar instructor is holding a recital for his students (mostly kids and teens) tonight, and I'm closing the show with Santana's "Europa". Now, this isn't the easiest song in the world - I've practiced the crap out of this, most of it I have, and taught myself to fake the spots I really can't pull off, having a good sense of how to bail if I get lost. The pick-up band I'm playing this song with have played it w/ me three or four times, a little ragged but not terrible. Bottom line, we all more or less have it.

My problem is stage fright. We're playing this in front of kids and their parents, non-paying gig, maybe 50 - 75 people at a middle school auditorium - I did this same gig with a different song last November and while everyone said I sounded fine, I seriously flubbed some otherwise easy parts. I heard it, even if they didn't.

I am completely stressed out about this. :) My palms sweat, hands shake, my left hand tightens up, my pick grip starts to loosen....lol. I can wail on this thing while I'm practicing at home, but once I get in front of people, I tighten up.

I understand and fully accept that I may become a guitar player of some competence, but I'll almost certainly NEVER be a performer.

Anyone have tips for me on relaxing and just letting my practice and preparation come through?


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:33 pm
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Carly Simon has seriously debilitating stage fright. So she always had the band member with the biggest hands give her a good hard spanking right before she went onstage to take her mind off of it. True story.


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:23 am
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Well, guess I should have tried that. Since I butchered the thing.


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:43 pm
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So you didn't live up to your expectations, but did the audience seem to enjoy it? That's the test. Your teacher probably noticed the mistakes, but did the audience? Probably not.
Few people are born performers. Like learning music, it takes practice and experience to get comfortable with it.
To build your confidence, start small. A hospital or senior home is a good place to take an acoustic guitar and perform for patients, singly or in small groups. You will never find a more appreciative audience.
An open mic at a cafe or tavern will also have an audience of other novice performers who will be supportive.
Please, don't give up on performing. The audiences need the spititual healing your music provides.


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:07 pm
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I appreciate that, TimsAudio. And I suspect my instructor will say something along the same lines when I see him on Wednesday. As for the audience, I really don't know what they thought. When we finished I barely even looked at them, turned off my amp and skidded offstage. I heard some applause (I think) but I was mentally beating myself up so bad I could barely hear anything. By the time I returned the stage to help break down, the place was empty.

Once I realized I borked the song, I just punched in my CryBaby and wailed - figured, eh, might as well rattle some windows.

This show business thing is harder than it looks. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:19 pm
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It's been my experience that those who suffer from stage fright, usually have to deal with it to one degree or another most of their musical careers...there really isn't much of a "fix" for it. Personally I've never had to deal with it myself too much...I'm a natural ham in front of a microphone, however my wife (who sings, plays flute, hand percussion, etc) suffers from this terribly...to the point of projectile barfing before a show! As such, here's a few suggestions that -may- help...

First and foremost, learn to accept that you WILL make mistakes...and even if you don't, chances are that someone else on stage probably will! LOL! What's more is that this is perfectly acceptable! Everyone makes mistakes...it's part of being human. You wanna see mistakes, you should see my bass player after he's had 17 tequila fanny-bangers, LOL!!!!!! Truth be told, in the 30+ years I've been doing this stuff, I have yet to do a completely flawless show. Certainly there have been some shows that have gone better than others...and some that have been considerably worse, however in most cases except for the most horrendous boo-boos (like getting a couple of songs mixed up in my head...which I've done), 9 out of 10 times no one (other than myself) ever notices. Seriously...I just did a show week before last...it was the first show with this new band that the bass player and I put together. We had only worked with the drummer a total of 4 times and the keyboard player showed for -1- rehearsal...and yea...we made a TON of mistakes. In one tune, I even forgot an entire verse of the song! LOL!!! That said however, we had a great crowd the entire evening, we had A LOT of fun and we still got payed. The simple truth is that we musicians (or artists in general) are usually A LOT harder on ourselves than most audiences ever are.

Try to think of it like this...you're up on stage and you make a mistake. So? Did the planet stop spinning? Did the gravitational constant of the universe change? Did countries go to war because of it? Seriously...did the cat pee in your sock drawer just because you missed a note? Most of the time the worse thing that's gonna happen is that you'll have a few war stories that you and your bandmates can laugh about later. People make mistakes. Life goes on.

If that's not enough for ya, it's also worth keeping in mind that many of the greats have made "mistakes" on stage...this isn't a phenomenon that's limited to us weekend warriors. Seriously...look up Elvis Presley...he had a bad habit of forgetting lyrics on stage! LOL! In my book, if "The King" made a few mistakes, I'm certainly entitled to my share. Certainly The Grateful Dead come to mind...I've heard some recordings of a few of their concerts were it genuinely sounded like everyone in the band was playing DIFFERENT SONGS, LOL!!! Again...no one's perfect...or at the very least, no one is perfect ALL the time. Life is easier once you learn to accept that.

Now along with that, I would also recommend "keeping yourself busy". Something that I found that really helps my wife is to just keep her busy before the show...I'll have her working on the PA system setup, doing mic checks, sorting set lists...whatever ("Honey...could you go check this patch cable for me?"..."Honey...could you go move that mic stand for me?"...or the classic, "Honey...could you run to the bar and get me another beer?", LOL!). If nothing else, this certainly helps with the pre-show jitters as she doesn't have time to get really nervous about anything. For a lot of people, it's really easy to psyc yourself out if you're just sitting there with nothing to do.

The few times I have gotten nervous on stage (a few times while playing drums), I just focus on the music...or even just "counting" (timing/beats). If I know a given tune well enough, there have certainly been times where I've caught myself watching a big screen tv or something else in the bar (just to avoid eye contact with the audience)...I just let the fingers do what they're getting payed to do while my mind wanders off to a happy place, LOL!!!

As to relaxing...that's a hard thing for some folks (and tensing up is likely what causes the greatest majority of mistakes). For some folks, meditation can actually help...or at the very least, just some quite deep breathing exercises. At the risk of sounding horribly zen, life can't exist without breathing, yet it's amazing how many people don't really pay any attention to their breathing at all. Next to meditation and breathing, I've known one or two people who will sit there before a big show with a little walkman and just jam along with tunes to warm up (and loosen up)...although I'd probably avoid the actual tune(s) you're gonna be playing so that again you don't psyc yourself out. While this may sound kind of dumb, you may also wish to consider some stretching exercises as well...consider an athlete such as a runner before a big marathon. If you go in with "cold muscles", those cramps catch up to you in a BIG way. On the issue of relaxing before a show, my advice would be to simply Google "relaxation techniques"...it doesn't have to be musician specific. I'm sure you'll find plenty, so you'll just need to find something that works well for you.

Also...while this may sound obvious or even dumb, avoid caffeine before a show! Coffee...cola...Mountain Dew...don't drink caffeinated beverages before a show as they will only exacerbate the jitters. I'll usually get something to eat just before a show (usually because the band is there for 4 hours or more, which is a LONG time for me to go without food) and I'll typically have a beer or two at an average show, but I always avoid caffeine unless I have a really long drive home at the end of the night.

Seriously my friend...if you flub something, just smile, shrug your shoulders and move on...it's not the end of the world. Just do your best, accept your worse and remember that tomorrow is always another day.

Last but not least, remember this; HAVE FUN!

I hope this helps!


(BTW...Europa...ambitious, but awesome tune!)


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:56 pm
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Wow - epic response! Thanks, friend. I kinda needed that.

Yeah I downed three Mountain Dews in the four hours or so leading up to stage time, as well as half a pack of Camel Lights (nasty habit), except for the hour and a half immediately preceding, when I just sat there watching everyone else do their number and feeling cold ooze leaking from my left palm. So...strike one, and strike two.

As far as the tune, maybe above my pay grade, but the band and I (remember, this was a throw-together band - before our three rehearsals, I'd never met these guys before..) utterly torched the thing at the last rehearsal before the show. My guitar teacher will tell you I'm a brutal self-critic, but even I was happy on the last rehearsed run through. It was as close to 'perfect' as I could get it.

End of the day, though, you're right. The world turned, the sun came up, and I know myself I'm a better almost-player than that gig.

So I guess I'm left with; what's next? Do I go for an easy kill next time, or try to push for something else challenging?

I am a lifelong and avowed Jeff Beck fan.... :wink:

Thanks again for helping me keep this in perspective. If you're not already, you should teach. Wobbly wannabe's like me could really benefit....


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:36 am
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cosmicdebris wrote:
Wow - epic response! Thanks, friend. I kinda needed that.


You are most welcome and I'm glad you found my comments useful! BTW...I actually type around 80 wpm and I'm pretty good with the word-smithing thing, so a lot of my posts end up being rather "epic" 8) .

Quote:
...as well as half a pack of Camel Lights


Ok...that one made me chuckle. For better or worse, I'm a heavy smoker and a few years back when I starting doing gigs again after Ohio imposed smoking laws on bars and restaurants and such, I have to say that's actually been one of the hardest things for met...NOT being able to smoke at a gig. Honestly I never used to smoke much at a show as much as I'd light a lot of cigarettes...light a cig, take a hit or two, play a tune, light another cig, take a hit, play the next tune...lather, rinse, repeat. So yea...these days, by the time that last note of the last song of a given set dies out, I'm already out the door grabbing a smoke, LOL!


Quote:
So I guess I'm left with; what's next? Do I go for an easy kill next time, or try to push for something else challenging?


For myself at least, this always seems to come down to the other people I'm working more than anything. On the one hand, I enjoy a challenging tune from time to time (including Europa, which is why it caught my attention). On the other hand, most of the time I don't really have a decent keyboard player to work with (GOOD keyboard players are harder to find than decent bass players are around here...) and for a great many of the people I've worked with over the years, just getting everyone together for a regular practice or two often seems extraordinarily challenging because most folks have the all mighty "day job" and as such, sometimes we do very much keep the tunes simple as they're (usually) MUCH easier to throw together. For myself...in a band situation at least...instead of spending an hour working on 1 complex tune (whether it's a show stopper or not), in most cases it's more productive for us to hammer out 8 or 10 easier tunes in that same hour. A tune such as Chuck Berry's "Johnny B. Goode" for example...sure, it's a piece of cake and yea, if I had a dollar for everytime I played that tune I could easily retire in The Bahamas, but play that tune in a bar and people get up and dance.

That said, personally I do enjoy a bit of both...I honestly just enjoy playing and as long as a given tune sounds half-way decent, for myself at least it doesn't matter too much whether it's a two chord tune such as America's "Horse With No Name" or something more complex...I can honestly have fun with either. For the one band I'm currently in, we do 3 one hour sets...around 12 to 14 tunes each set...and I'll try to throw in -1- good show stopper in each set with the rest of the tunes usually being pretty straight forward easy material.

(more on the "easy" issue in just a bit here...)

Quote:
I am a lifelong and avowed Jeff Beck fan.... :wink:


Jeff Beck...Santana...my you are ambitious! LOL!!! Actually I love Jeff Beck as well...I'd LOVE to do "Freeway Jam" or even "Cause We Ended As Lovers" (particularly if I could find a bass player who could cover that tune like Tal Wilkenfeld did at the one Crossroads show). The guy not only did some incredible tunes, he also has a really extraordinary technique that's well worth studying.

Now with those last two comments in mind, I would add that while I think it's always great to push one's self a bit, if part of your stage fright issue is related to the complexity of the tune (you had made a comment or two there about your concerns with playing Europa), then perhaps it might be worth taking a bit of a break as well. Not saying that it needs to be something that's insanely easy, however there are PLENTY of tunes out there that fall somewhere in the middle.

While this isn't a stage fright issues directly, it's certainly a "stress" issue which can contribute to stage fright...it can be really easy to over-load yourself. The best example I can think of was the band I was in about 15 years ago...I was not only playing drums for that band, I ran sound, I was the "stage director" (for lack of a better term), along with covers, we did several originals and were trying to achieve a very unique sound, so I did a lot of writing and all the arrangements, etc., AND I was also the manager...the guy who got us the gigs. For myself it really got to be TOO much and I really felt overwhelmed to the point that I just got really cranky at practices and shows...for a while there I really was not a very nice person to be around (well...considerably more so than usual at least, LOL!). That's one of the reasons why when I hooked up with this Southern Rock group a few years back, I went in as just a guitar player...at first I wasn't even planning on singing, let alone running sound, booking gigs, etc.. I'd go to practices (the few we had) or a show with 1 amp, 2 guitars and maybe 1 fx pedal and just play. That roll has certainly evolved over the past 4 years, but after that bit 15 years ago, I've also learned to pace myself, to delegate when necessary and NOT bite off more than I can chew.

In other words, if you're pretty comfortable with a given tune, regardless of it's complexity and everyone else you're working with is equally comfortable with it, then by all means, go for it. But...if it's something that's going to seriously ramp up the ol' stress levels, maybe back off...at least for a while. There's nothing wrong at all with doing a simple 3 chord tune like the classic "Louie Louie"...if you're good at improvising, then a lot of those tunes can be A LOT of fun to play and you can really dig in and really tear them up!

Quote:
If you're not already, you should teach. Wobbly wannabe's like me could really benefit....
[/quote][/quote]

Ya know...it's kind of funny that you say that. As an "old guy" myself (I'll be 50 this year), I had actually gone back to college a few years back after my wife had lost her job...pursuing an Associates Degree in Art...and during the course of my tenure as a college student, a couple of my teachers/professors have actually tried to "gently nudge me" into teaching. In fact, fall semester of last year, one of my former teachers asked me to come in for a couple of weeks and work as a teacher's aid...he had to go out of town for a couple of weeks and the sub didn't know the software they used in that class (3D modelling & animation using Autodesk's Maya). For a 2 week gig, it was actually a lot of fun and that particular class had some really good students...the problem is that I really don't think I have the patience to do it full time, music, art or otherwise.

I'm really good with students who WANT to learn (even if they're fairly slow learners), however there's always a few who really have no interest (be it music or art)...those students who'd really rather sit there texting their friends during class time or think Facebook or that weekend party with "the cool kids" is more important than their homework, then never seem to understand why their projects only got a C or a D....ALWAYS full of excuses. I'm still good friends with a number of my former teachers at that community college and honestly - some days I don't know how they keep themselves from choking the living crap out of some of those obtuse little retards! OYE!!! I have no problem at all with "inexperienced" (we all have to start somewhere), however as my brother often says, "you just can't fix stupid".

Anyways, again I'm glad you got some use out of my comments and whether you go for an easy tune or the Jeff Beck stuff, I sincerely wish you the best of luck!


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:00 am
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Cosmic, I take it someone must have recorded your performance, I think we'd still like to have a listen.


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:05 pm
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Lomitus:
Well...my teacher and I met last night. I think we decided on "Too Much To Lose" from There and Back. Pretty straightforward, manageable tempo. Next show isn't until November, so I'll have plenty of time to prepare my minefield.

We're also going to do some wrench-turning on playing over changes, modes, etc. I need more theory-based work. He also said that among all his students, I have BY FAR the biggest gap between self-perception of my playing and external perception - he said, yeah, you dropped a section out of the song, but the rest was ok. (We agreed to disagree.)

Having said that, I just purchased the tab for "Sophie." heh. Hard enough for the guitar, but agree on the keyboardist thing - finding a hired gun who can pull that one off would be a challenge.

I did find a couple of YouTube's of Jimmy Herring playing "Sophie" with his band. (Yikes...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VyuXTZN9dM

I am lamentably cursed with being an old school fusionhead - nothing against The Stones or EC or Jimmy Page, but if I'm going to learn this thing, this is the stuff that spins my wheels. I am also unfortunately cursed by being a 35+-year music journalist. (I'm 57.) I listen to everything critically. Can't help it.

Atolleter: my wife was in the second row and shot it on her Galaxy Note. I haven't looked at it yet. At some point I will and will put it up there, and I'll add a link. It's one thing to screw up in front of a non-paying audience who was there to see someone else (their own kids)....

BTW, both you guys: my wife is from Cleveland and we go back regularly to see her family, where are you lomitus?

And Atolleter, I grew up in Westchester County. New Rochelle to be exact. I live in Colorado now, and for the past 34 years...


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:44 pm
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I've been in Westchester many years now but I grew up in France. Post the video on reverbnation maybe, I often record my practice sessions on soundcloud, it helps to listen to yourself.


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 6:10 pm
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Couple things.

Simplifying your particular part can be an asset for those prone to nervousness. Many people feel the need to be impressive to their family or friends in the audience and will try to tackle a complicated part to play to showcase their abilities. It's not necessary and can be counterproductive. The simple fact you are up on stage playing music is impressive enough. Furthermore a simple part executed cleanly is FAR more impressive than a complicated part you fudged up due to nervousness. If you really want to perform the complicated part(s) I suggest that you also practice an easier simplified version of that part to fall back on if you feel yourself ready to falter.

Secondly, I don't recommend this but back in the day for really severe cases some guys would get a prescription for so-called Beta Blockers. I did try them way back when God wore short pants and they did help to a small degree. They do come with side affects though and I don't recommend them except for extreme cases. As always consult your doctor before taking any medication.

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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 10:44 am
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Thanks BMW-KTM - agree with your recommendations.

My guitar is still in its case - think I'll take it out this afternoon, make up with it, and play a little.

But I am reconsidering playing another one of these gigs.


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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:24 pm
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I think stage fright hits us all to some degree at some time. It certainly has affected me. I find it's not my potential that causes it, it's the unknown and/or things that I can't control.

1) When I was small, I was fearsome on stage. I simply didn't care, because I was a star :lol:
2) Then I discovered adult attitudes. :shock:
3) I was told at the last minute I would be singing, for the first time, before a whole town of strangers, with little rehearsal, with my touring school jazz band, to a song I didn't like (written by one of the students), and that the credits I needed to leave high school with a passing grade depended on it. Kapow! What a struggle with a less than a stellar performance. :oops: - I passed though.
4) I got called upon (against my will and without warning) with an open mike at a university, to make a presentation on behalf of my company in front of families and many of the city's elite business crowd, only because I had taught an Arts student the ropes. Not being a public speaker, and not being prepared - another Kapow! :x
5)As a producer/director I was used to giving performers help and advice; but, I knew when to accept their talent and suggestions without losing control. Put me in front of a camera and I was out of my comfort zone, and when talent was ill, that happened . . . but, I managed for the good of the project.

In the end, I got support for my efforts and found, although I knew others had their opinion (mostly ill informed), that I was the source of my stage fright.

So, my advice is to understand that imperfection is around every corner. I realized that (as the saying demonstrates, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going".) it is better to grab the bull by the horn and go for that ride rather than to get trampled by running from it. If you get thrown off, get back up. Take control, no one is going to hand it to you. Certainly not the bull s@#$. Before long, you'll be a champion. I know it has helped me.

I would watch out for biker bars and chicken wire cages where beer bottles are thrown though. See? All is not bad. (and some biker bars are downright friendly :lol: )

Note: Reportedly, Steve Martin once walked, inadvertently, into a biker bar wearing his makeup for the1987 movie Roxanne. He had to see a man about a horse. Steve worried about his big made up nose and the biker reaction, only to find he was welcomed by the bikers. But, he was after all, Steve Martin.

Regards.

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Post subject: Re: Stage fright
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:11 am
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At the first couple of public performances, guitar related, I had huge stage fright. I could barely stand on my feet. The main reason for this is that I was very lousy guitarist at the time :lol: Don't get me wrong, I still have a ton of things to learn and the more I learn the more I see I have left to learn. But anyway, my stage fright is almost completely gone now. It might be there a bit for the first tune (unless I've had a lot to drink), after that it's completely gone. I always prefer to open with pretty much the same song, one that is quite easy to play but one that is still a crowd-pleaser (kinda, it's our author song). I also usually drink a beer or two before the gig. Doing some warm-up exercise is also a good thing, especially for outdoors stuff.

Anyway, one of the best mindset states to go into the gig was revealed to me by my guitar teacher a couple months ago, I don't really have a problem with stage fright, but it still helps to go in with such a mindset. First off - you'll never be perfect (and I am a perfectionist so it was hard for me to accept this kind of state. The second thing is - no one in the audience at that exact moment is able to play the song you're currently playing better than you. No one. Sure, some people might know how to play the song, but are they in a fit state to play it? Do they know exactly how many choruses your band will play, how many bars will be left for each solo, what about some funky parts you've perhaps added to the song? Or what if you're playing it in a different key? No one. Just remember that. When you're on stage you're there and the others aren't, that's reason alone to have confidence in yourself. Having confidence in yourself will aid in a better performed gig.

Hope that helps for the next time 'round :)

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