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Post subject: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:14 pm
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First, the caveats. This is a bit of a tale, so buckle up. Also, I'm fairly new to looking at what's under the proverbial hood of my amps, so I apologize for lack of knowledge of the electrical nitty gritty. Here goes...

I've owned a Blues Deluxe for over a year now, and it's served me well. I swapped out the Groove Tubes with a full complement of Tung Sols, which have worked great for months. A few weeks ago, while playing the amp under normal conditions (same space as usual, plugged into the same power strip into the same outlet), there was a significant volume drop and the signal became subtly more distorted. I swapped the GTs back in, no change. I tried a different speaker- that wasn't it. While checking the speaker it suddenly got much worse- lower volume, extreme distortion and the smell of smoke. I powered it down and whisked it away to a tech.

The tech told me vaguely that there were some bad connections to repair/replace, and he did so. I brought it home and it worked like a dream for another week. Then, while playing, suddenly complete loss of sound and smoke pouring out. I cracked it open to find what I think was a resistor right above the power tubes, burnt to a crisp after scorching a ribbon cable as well.

I was so frustrated with the amp that I just gave up on it. I saw a cheap Hot Rod Deluxe on craigslist and snapped it up. I popped in those Tung Sols I liked so much and was good to go. Two days later- POW! The very same volume drop and distortion that happened to the Blues Deluxe.

Now it's obvious that it's not just the wiring in the amps. Either those Tung Sols have acquired a taste for burnt amp meat, or something is seriously wrong with the wiring in my house.

The latter would not be a huge surprise. We've had electricians out multiple times for various strange things (like five or six light bulbs burning out all at the same time). It's an old house. They put in new, supposedly well-grounded outlets and gave us a clean bill of health.

My question is- does this sound familiar to anyone? And is there anything I can do short of moving? Thank you!


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:47 am
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On two amps, it may all be just a coincidence.

But one possibility is power surges in the current - are those common where you live, and has this been checked? If this is the cause, a voltage regulator might come in handy.


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:38 am
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I suspect that they are common, but haven't yet been able to confirm. Like I said, light bulbs never seem to last long in our house and often go out several at a time, sometimes after only a week of use. Our washing machine will actually give you a nasty shock if you happen to touch the water while it's running. And yet, when we get the landlord to bring the electrician out, they poke around at the outlets and say they don't see anything out of the ordinary. I'm buying a voltmeter to see for myself, for what it's worth.

Can you give me any details about what kind of voltage regulator to use and how to use it? If I can protect my music gear I'll be happy. Thanks very much for the response!


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:35 am
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I live in the steady 240V zone :wink: , and have never needed one myself, so I won't give any suggestions on the regulator.
Maybe someone else on the forum (with experience on spiky 120V and voltage regulators) will chip in, otherwise I'd suggest contacting local electric or amp shops.

BTW, that washing machine giving electric shocks does not sound nice...


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:22 pm
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I'm getting a Furman surge protector and hoping that it does the trick. After looking at voltage regulators, it seems like all the truly foolproof devices are far out of my price range. Assuming that this is the problem...

But the other link between the two amps (I'm ruling out coincidence because the timing is simply too suspicious) is the set of tubes. If I were to have a bad power tube, could it potentially have this effect? None of the tubes look bad and none were microphonic. But I have seen some mention of bad power tubes blowing resistors, whether or not they blew a fuse. I'm kicking myself for not asking the tech specifically what he did the first time. And it occurs to me that, when I gave him the Blues Deluxe, I had the GTs in it- not the tubes that have been in the amps every time I've had a problem.

If anyone has had similar damage done by bad power tubes, I'd love to hear about it. But I'm replacing them all just to be safe.


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:08 pm
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^^^ I just realized that I meant preamp tubes in the above post. But either/or!


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:52 pm
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The surge protector is a good idea even if it doesn't fix your problem. I use them on all of my expensive equipment. A little more than a cheap power strip, but worth it.

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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:38 pm
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Yes get a multimeter and check your ac receptacle
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If you are in a 120 volt system Check the hot to neutral you should see voltage then check hot to ground you should see the same voltage, then check the neutral to ground where you should see very little voltage if you see a lot of voltage the receptacles are not wired correct or there is a problem at the breaker box
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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:49 pm
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Quote:
Our washing machine will actually give you a nasty shock if you happen to touch the water while it's running. And yet, when we get the landlord to bring the electrician out, they poke around at the outlets and say they don't see anything out of the ordinary. I'm buying a voltmeter to see for myself, for what it's worth.


Your residence has a dangerous electrical system! Get the landlord to fix it or move!

Is this a real electrician that the LL brings out or just a handyman who drags in recycled appliances when they go bad in your house?
I can't see a licensed electrician missing a bad electrical service like you are describing.

Appliances must go out pretty often with the wiring that you are dealing with.

I have never heard of a set of tubes blowing up an amp. I have had tubes go bad and glow red and maybe quit, but they rarely work again in another amp.
Preamp tubes definitely don't push the big power in an amp.

Your crib is killing your amps. Get out before it kills you!

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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:42 pm
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BCbassman wrote:
Your residence has a dangerous electrical system! Get the landlord to fix it or move!...
...Your crib is killing your amps. Get out before it kills you!


+1 and a few more.
When you have light bulbs going out like that, electrical shocks as you're describing,
(never even mind that your two amp-fries might or might not be co-incidental)
you're wiring is not only suspect, it is scarey.

See if you can bring in an electrician of your own,
not one of the landlord's goons.


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:16 pm
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Polyphemus, just perusing the forum, read up on your post. Not having seen any further posts from you, just wondered how things turned out. From your description of the electrical issue (among them, shock from washers water line, lights buring out), it would seem, as others have eluded to, there is an issue with the electrical wiring in your dwelling. You mentioned getting a shock from the washers water line, which could be that the water line is being used as a grounding source, or not grounded at all. I don't recall seeing that you said, whether or not your outlets are two or three blade plugs. Even at that, I have known of three prong outlets, that are not grounded or improperly grounded, if they were added-updated (installed), from the original electrical service. Not sure of your local city electrical code, but older dwellings did not require grounded (three prong outlet) service.

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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:15 am
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Polyphemus wrote:


I've owned a Blues Deluxe for over a year now, and it's served me well. I swapped out the Groove Tubes with a full complement of Tung Sols, which have worked great for months.
Did you check tubes bias ?

The tech told me vaguely that there were some bad connections to repair/replace, and he did so. I brought it home and it worked like a dream for another week. Then, while playing, suddenly complete loss of sound and smoke pouring out. I cracked it open to find what I think was a resistor right above the power tubes, burnt to a crisp after scorching a ribbon cable as well.
You should bring back to your tech , to see what he think about

I was so frustrated with the amp that I just gave up on it. I saw a cheap Hot Rod Deluxe on craigslist and snapped it up. I popped in those Tung Sols I liked so much and was good to go
Bias check ?



To it look more that those amps are not in good shape


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:21 am
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Lenny1716 wrote:
Polyphemus, just perusing the forum, read up on your post. Not having seen any further posts from you, just wondered how things turned out. From your description of the electrical issue (among them, shock from washers water line, lights buring out), it would seem, as others have eluded to, there is an issue with the electrical wiring in your dwelling. You mentioned getting a shock from the washers water line, which could be that the water line is being used as a grounding source, or not grounded at all. I don't recall seeing that you said, whether or not your outlets are two or three blade plugs. Even at that, I have known of three prong outlets, that are not grounded or improperly grounded, if they were added-updated (installed), from the original electrical service. Not sure of your local city electrical code, but older dwellings did not require grounded (three prong outlet) service.


+1

I've run into older homes where someone put in DIY 3 prong plugs to replace older 2 prong outlets. Problem is, they either did nothing with the ground or connected it to something that never ultimately went to "earth ground" anywhere. In other cases, they might use water pipes (might be okay if you have modern copper piping with good solder joints all the way to the street) or even (time to worry) gas pipes.

Most if not all areas in the US require inspection as a part of certain things -- rewire, sale of the home, remodel, etc. But we'd be naive to believe that the inspector is always going to be thorough. And I have no doubt that in some cases, money could overcome a certain degree of thorough on the inspector's part. I once lived in an apartment where the landlord had to be bribing officials ... no way was any part of this building legal. Yet if a tenant complained, an inspector would come out, find nothing wrong and move on.

So maybe the OP should hire his own licensed electrician (there was mention of a landlord). Here in the US, depending on what state, that might be enough to force a fix or at least get out of a lease. That is, assuming your own contractor does find issues of course. My experience is that landlords can get away with a lot of non-fixes in pro-landlord states, but even pro-tenant states like California leave a lot up to the landlord.

As for higher end surge protectors -- I use Furman for all my gear. You never can tell what condition the wiring will be in at some bar or club. It's well worth the money in my opinion.


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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:34 pm
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Hey guy, sorry to hear about the amp problems; After reading through, I have to suggest that you may should have just tried another set of output tubes (other than the Tung Sol's) to see if you got the same results......because you mentioned what sounded like a screen resistor burning (smoke, distortion, etc), then I would suspect the output tubes first and a couple of other things second; unfortunately, all new tubes are not road worthy and there are reasons for such things.

I believe your amp tech could had resolved this for you, if you explained the events to him, as I'm sure you did....however, he also would of had to have those Tung Sol's to set your outputs back to their proper idle, right? You know it's alright to ask your tech to check the power output of the amp once they have completed their work or just have them do it if they didn't - this doesn't take 5 minutes

As for your residence electrical descriptions/encounters, it sounds like you may have both, a short and a grounding issue in some areas of the residence.....hire your own certified electrician and deal with it properly before you or someone else gets injured or killed; don't leave it for the next tenants.....it can be a deadly trap for some youngster.....I have personally seen several traps left for unknowing residents simply due to expediency by folks not willing to do the job proper; you should never encounter an electrical shock while operating any switch or appliance......NEC states rules for grounding for a very good reason; liability for certified work follows this......good luck

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Post subject: Re: Is my house killing my amps?
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:55 am
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I use an APC UPS for my gear. Actually I have a couple of them, both 1500 watt jobs. An uninterruptible power supply protects against minor surges but it also protects against dips. The former is important for pretty much all electrical devices but the latter is particularly important for any digital devices you may have in your gear. If your tube amp sees a momentary drop in voltage it will usually take it in stride but a digital device will usually stop functioning if it doesn't see exactly the voltage it is expecting.

It should be noted that no surge protector will protect against lightning strikes. That's a common belief that is entirely false. The surges they can handle are minor irregularities from the power company. If you could find a surge protector capable of fending off lightning attacks it would likely cost you enough to financially ruin you for life. Five billion joules is a lot of surge to deal with.

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