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Post subject: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:07 pm
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Hello, thank you for taking your time to read this. i was curious if i could use a Super Champ x2 HD with a super sonic 60 212 enclosure or a super sonic 100 enclosure?

I feel i understand the guitar as instrument and how it works but i feel vauge on the subject of tube amps.
thank you again for your time :D


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:28 am
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Super Champ X2 use 8 ohms speaker impedance , the best is to use same impedance cab ; 8 ohms .

Super Sonic 60 212 cab will work it is a 8 ohms cab .

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SupSonCabBD

SS 100 ; 16 ohms


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:01 am
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and the super champ can't go over 8 ohms correct, so the 100 would be to bigger but the, 60 would be the right size. Thank!


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:10 am
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:D


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:16 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
:D

Would I be able to use both speakers with the super champ head and a super sonic 60 212? Thanks for you help!


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:07 pm
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No , both speakers need a 4 ohms amp output impedance


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:06 pm
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Just to clarify about speaker loads and impedance ...

"Impedance" is effectively resistance. Technically it's resistance to an AC signal. Audio signals are AC so we call it impedance instead of resistance.

Tube amps MUST be operated with the output stage matched to the load impedance. Most amps have an impedance selector on the back to use with 4, 8 or 16 ohm speaker loads. if your amp doesn't have a selector then you must use a speaker or speakers with an impedance that matches the amplifier's output stage - this will usually mean an 8 ohm cabinet.

The confusion really arises when you start adding two identical speaker loads in parallel. Surprisingly, this halves (note: not doubles) the resistance of the speaker load. Two 8 ohm cabinets in parallel equals a 4 ohm total load. Think of it like opening another faucet from a tank of water, you halve the resistance the the flow of water. Tube amps do not like this impedance mismatch and you can cause damage to the output tubes and/or transformer this way.

So if your speaker cab is 8 ohms and your amp needs an 8 ohm load then you can use that cab. But you can't use it in conjunction with the internal speaker as the load impedance will be too low for the amp.

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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:09 pm
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Also bear in mind that a bigger speaker may not make your amp any louder. In fact, it may well have the opposite effect.

Small speakers are more efficient and have higher sensitivity, they produce more volume for a given input power. Larger speakers have more power handling but it's usually at the expense of efficiency and sensitivity, they require more input power to produce the same volume levels. Using a high powered speaker with a low powered amp isn't a great idea as the amp won't have enough power to drive the speaker to the same volume.

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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:54 am
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GilgaFrank wrote:
Also bear in mind that a bigger speaker may not make your amp any louder. In fact, it may well have the opposite effect.

Small speakers are more efficient and have higher sensitivity, they produce more volume for a given input power. Larger speakers have more power handling but it's usually at the expense of efficiency and sensitivity, they require more input power to produce the same volume levels. Using a high powered speaker with a low powered amp isn't a great idea as the amp won't have enough power to drive the speaker to the same volume.



It is a case by case , more often a bigger speaker in a bigger box sound as louder than the original small one but you may have the felling it sound louder if impedance are matched.

Sensitivity of the speaker will tell lots , we don't know the specs of speakers we talk about here.


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:32 pm
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You also gotta note the power of the head vs the power of the cab. The power of the head shouldn't exceed 1/2 of the power of the cab/speaker.
So if the cab/speaker can produce 30W, the head shouldn't exceed 15W. If it does, it could damage or blow up the speaker, something that is most likely to happen when plucking an open E string (the lower one), or open E chord. It won't happen unless you really turn up your amp, but better safe than sorry ;)

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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:45 pm
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Neimenljivi,

Not sure of that , I think amp builders use same power for speaker and the amp .


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:33 pm
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Not really. The Deluxe Reverb is listed as a 22W amp, meaning the head can produce 22W power of clean signal. Now this is very important, and also one of the reasons why tube amps "sound" louder. At 22W, the signal will still be below the threshold of what is acceptable as a clean signal. Beyond 22W, the signal will start distorting - in tube amps with 22W listed, the sound will become more distorted and will slowly get into the sweet-spot of many people, however, in non-tube amps, the distorted signal will cause clipping, a very unpleasant sound.
Bare in mind, when a tube amp starts distorting, the volume knob is usually set around 3-4. Of course, the volume increase won't be linear past that point, but the volume will still increase.

The Jensen C12K 12" speaker that's in the DR, is 100W RMS Power and 200W Program Power. The amps themselves are, supposedly, listed at Program Power.

Fender amps can also (according to fenderguru) handle speaker impediance +100% and -50%. That would also be one of the reasons why speakers themselves have to be more powerful than the heads.
fenderguru.com wrote:
The common rule of thumb with speaker impedances in Fender amps is that the output transformer handles a impedance variation of +100% and -50%. This is a safe operating level where your amp doesn’t suffer. Example: An amp with a 4 ohm output impedance may handle a speaker load between 8 and 2 ohms with either removal or supplement of speakers.


Some useful links:
http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Speakers.htm
http://fenderguru.com/how-to-select-speakers

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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:00 pm
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You are right and I'm very surprise about the Deluxe Reverb . Thank's I learn something


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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:03 pm
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Np, I learned a lot from the community here as well, so it's only fair I share back :)

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Post subject: Re: what amp head with which cab?
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:13 pm
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+1 for Neimenljivi's comments about speaker power ratings. Tube amps especially can produce transient power far in excess of the amp's rated RMS power. Running a 50 Watt rated speaker on a 50 Watt amp is like running a car at full throttle all day, it's going to blow eventually. I'd use a minimum 75 Watt rated speaker on a 50 Watt amp.

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