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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:40 am
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Joe90 wrote:
I am just starting to learn how to play the guitar.

I had the opportunity to pick up a 2nd hand barely used Affinity Tele for next to nothing. The aim is that this will be a stepping stone to a bigboy Telecaster down the road.

I like to take things apart and put them back together, so any upgrades would be done by me.

Common consensus is that I should upgrade tuners, pups, pots and switches. I can do that when the time is right, but I want to do upgrades that are reasonable, cost effective, and truly an upgrade.

I have the opportunity to purchase pickups, switch, and pots taken from a new 50's Classic Vibes Tele for $50. Is this a suitable upgrade or would I just be wasting $50?

Thanks for any advice and I'll be keeping this thread active for any future questions about upgrades on this specific Tele.



Just trying to get back to the original question for a moment...and reflect on some of the other comments...as we have all been down this road before :roll:

The basic info folks are expressing is this: Before taking a tool to a guitar, get to know it. So often, new owners want to change an instrument before realizing what it does already, especially when they get a 'starter'. Nothing meant personally here...just solid advice.

As for your intended upgrades...the price seems reasonable, and the components would be of better quality than you currently have. But...as above...do these components represent what you ultimately want, or just another incremental step? Either way, it is your time and money and there is value in learning how to tinker with your guitar...take good notes and pictures along the way...and do nothing irreversible.

I would emphasize one of Arjay's comments regarding your amplifier...it has a lot to do with the sound you may be chasing and if it isn't up to the challenge, you can make all the guitar mods available and still not reach your goal. The M2 is a good amplifier for many people, and in a nearby thread you can read about how folks love them, listen to samples which may sound as good as the tube amps it emulates...but...in then end, it isn't a tube amp and you can spend a lot of time tinkering with presets and never actually play the guitar! Again...like the guitar you have, it can be a reasonable starting point, but perhaps not the final solution.

So...take some deep breaths. Play your guitar. Listen to the advice you have requested...and yes...deal with the sarcasm...it comes with the territory, but from a good place 8)

Cheers.

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1975 Fender Stratocaster
1981 Rickenbacker 360
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2007 Fender Standard Stratocaster
2012 Taylor GA3-12
2012 Squier Telecaster
2017 Les Paul Kit


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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:28 am
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HeyJoe42 wrote:
So...take some deep breaths. Play your guitar. Listen to the advice you have requested...and yes...deal with the sarcasm...it comes with the territory, but from a good place


+1

And I hope my comments weren't perceived as snarky.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:04 pm
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Thanks for the advice, HeyJoe42, on so many levels.

The Affinity Tele just sort of fell in my lap, and I figured that it would be a perfect guitar to play with -- as opposed to play -- because I really don't think that years from now somebody will look at it and say

"What the heck was that guy thinking messing with an Affinity? What a waste of a classic guitar."

There's just so many of them around. The Tele will probably end up gifted to a young person, either a family member or friend. Speaking of which... A friend offered to sell me his son's Affinity Strat for $40... :lol:

I agree with you about tube amplifiers. I have long been an tube lover. I've never felt the need to get rid of my hk505 integrated amp, and have an RCA VR60 Phono/AM/SW (1941) and a SABA Freudenstadt 8 FM/SW. The VR60 was bought by my mother during WWII, and it was on that set that I first heard The Beatles. When I was redoing the VR60 I bought some tubes from the Tube Depot in Memphis. If you're a tuber and have some electronic skills you should check it out...

https://www.tubedepot.com/t/diy-central/kits-tube-amp/guitar-tube-amp-kits


Retroverbial wrote:
And I hope my comments weren't perceived as snarky.
Arjay

No, Arjay, they weren't. Actually, the polishing a turd comment was funny. And it got me thinking... More on that in the future. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:53 pm
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Well you be sure to let me know if I get uppity.

It won't change anything but it may make you feel better.

:mrgreen:

Oh......and welcome to the forum.

8)

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:40 am
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I'm gonna (almost) totally disregard the tonal mods and many of the answers above (oh, you uppity pickety bunch, you :lol: ),
so I'll take a more electrical/mechanical approach and thus my starting point is this:
Joe90 wrote:
Common consensus is that I should upgrade tuners, pups, pots and switches. I can do that when the time is right, but I want to do upgrades that are reasonable, cost effective, and truly an upgrade

First of all, the common consensus is wrong with tuners - actually, all Affinities I've fiddled with, keep their tune just fine if they get a full & proper setup.
So do the setup first - a Tele is a very good guitar for learning this. My tips of the day: start by measuring (nut & pickup height, action, relief...) and by checking for loose screws and nuts.

One problem point in Affinities (& other low cost guitars) is that the cheap electrical components a) break or b) don't function properly. So: rewire the Tele totally - use good wire, CTS pots, OrangeDrop caps and an Electrosocket input jack. Usually the stock pickups produce the 'typical Tele sound', so I'd suggest you let them be - and thus this sets you back way under 50$.

During that above mentioned setup you might want to do two "real luthier" jobs:
1. Replace the nut - IMHO&E (=experience) the nut is critical for a) playing comfort and b) getting & staying in tune. Start with a bone blank, use those dreaded DIY feeler gauge nut files and work slowly. Here goes another 20$, including that you probably ruin one or two blanks before you get the third one right.
2. Level, crown and polish the frets. In all propability their placement is right, but there are a couple sitting a bit higher or lower. If you already have some different gauge wet/sand papers, this 'mod' is totally free.

And then do the visual mods: customize the guitar with new paint, pickguard, stickers...

You'll end up with a guitar you, for some strange reasons, really like. And, it's still so low cost you never have to worry about scratches and dings - the perfect tool for late night jamming with the spring breakers or Hell's Angels, which ever you prefer.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:59 am
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Thanks, jmattis! I'm pretty sure I can do these mechanical and electrical adjustments on my own. I'm happy to hear that you've given the stock pickups a vote of confidence.

Just four quick questions:

Strings nestled in the nut. I assume that side to side play is unacceptable, but is there an acceptable level of depth?

I've read mention of brass nuts. Besides filing issues what's your take on them?

Any suggestions on the OD caps' value?

In the absence of drunken students or bikers, would jamming with Belgian nuns be a suitable substitute? :wink:



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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:42 am
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Joe90 wrote:
I'm happy to hear that you've given the stock pickups a vote of confidence.

They fulfil the purpose of typical sound expections - I wouldn't go to further on analysis of my previous opinion.

Joe90 wrote:
1. Strings nestled in the nut. I assume that side to side play is unacceptable, but is there an acceptable level of depth?
2. I've read mention of brass nuts. Besides filing issues what's your take on them?
3. Any suggestions on the OD caps' value?
4. In the absence of drunken students or bikers, would jamming with Belgian nuns be a suitable substitute?

1. The slot width and depth are crucial. See further info for instance here: Any leads on a nut... (Nuts are discussed here on the forum so often I sometimes feel I'm surrounded by squirrels.)
2. Been there, done that (brass was the old black in the eighties). Too soft, wears too fast (strings stick to grooves & don't stay in tune). Very much IMHO: forget it. Use bone. Hunt a moose if you must.
3. Stick to basics first; like the AmStdTeleWiring. Experiment later as you wish - the pots & caps really are cheap. BTW, adding to my previous post: switch the switch, too.
4. Haven't had the pleasure. Be sure to post details when you've tried that.

(Anyone else have that "4th of July on top of Friday on top of World Cup Soccer Quarter Finals" mood?)


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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:09 am
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Thanks, jmattis -- good info.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:40 pm
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Hi Joe90, Welcome to THE SHOW!

On your Squier Affinity Tele there are a couple of mods I'd suggest that are very cheap and make for a cleaner sound. These are cheap things. Things you haven't mentioned and one of them I'd for sure do.

First, COPPER SHIELDING to ground the back of the pickguard using copper foil sheeting and shielding both pickup cavities and the control cavity using copper tape. This is the FIRST thing I'd do to a Telecaster or any single coil enabled electric Fender bass or guitar even if I did no other changes at all. Total parts cost under $15. It tames hum and radio frequency interference a lot. You'll probably have enough copper tape left over to at least partly shield another instrument too. This webpage has photos of a shielding job on a Stratocaster which is the same basic procedure: http://www.artandtechnology.com.au/guitar/shielding-strat.html This place sells shielding supplies by mail listed under ELECTRICAL/SHIELDING: http://guitarpartsresource.com/guitar_index.htm

Second, based on what type of music you play changing the tone capacitor type can slightly alter tonal character of the existing pickups when the amp is set clean. If you run a lot of distortion or overdrive you won't get any benefit at all from trying different tone caps though, so you can skip this if you play metal or something like that with a lot of distortion. This only helps your clean tone. Poly chicklet caps, likely the type that is in there stock, have a tad of distortion in the upper midrange and higher frequency tones which can be pleasing for some genres like blues. If a little distortion is cool to you then more might be better and in that case swap out the stock poly for a vintage ceramic disc cap to get full vintage bite. I don't mean the new Fender reproduction ceramic disc the size of a pea which sounds more like a poly cap, but a genuine vintage ceramic disc cap about the size of a dime. The ceramic discs were used from the Pre-CBS era until near the end of the CBS era. Ceramic disc tone capacitors have the most harmonic distortion and they make a Telecaster (or really any single coil instrument) sound more aggressive to me. Ceramic disc caps run a dollar or so. If you are looking to play clean then a Mylar 225 type Sprague Orange Drop will sound really clean for about $3. The more commonly found poly Orange Drop won't sound much different from the existing poly cap already in there, so there is no point in doing a poly for poly cap swap. For the ULTIMATE clean tone, say for jazz or vintage country, get a Paper In Oil Sprague Vitamin-Q type or one of the Russian P.I.O. clones which are just as clean. Genuine 200 volt 0.047 Vitamin-Q's run about $10 to $15 and the Soviet clones run about $3 to $4. (Be advised that differences in tone caps make VERY subtle tonal changes and there are those who say they make no difference at all. They do make less difference on an electric Spanish guitar than on a bass because guitar amps usually have distortion built into the preamp anyway while bass amps usually are cleaner. But while doing the shielding job, I'd spend a dollar for a vintage ceramic disc and solder it in there since that is what was used on vintage Telecasters.) A good source for vintage ceramic disc caps is here: http://www.shop.axegrinderz.com/main.sc

I would not change anything else that isn't broken. For example don't worry about the tuners unless they are slipping. If they seem stable there is no point in it. I would not change the pickups in this instrument and save that money instead for a better grade instrument down the road as someone else pointed out.

There's absolutely no point in changing the pots since 250k is 250k in any language and there will be no tonal benefit whatsoever unless of course they are not working. I would want 250K pots in a Telecaster so make sure the stock ones are 250k. There are hidden issues in changing pots on an Asian instrument to USA type pots. You may also have to change knobs and the holes in the control plate might also have to be expanded which complicates things as you have to drill press the control plate holes to a larger diameter and of course you have to get the holes centered exactly. I've ran into that before with Asian instruments when trying to put CTS USA pots in them. If the switch is working, I'd not worry about changing that either. A switch is either working or not. If it is working OK a new one won't work any better and there is no tonal advantage in changing it.

So, I wouldn't fix anything that was not broken beyond shielding it for sure and maybe doing a tone cap swap for a few bucks. Those are the two most cost effective upgrades on any single coil passive Fender type instrument. Those are the ONLY upgrades I'd recommend on it. These mods have good bang for the buck. Sure better pickups would be nice but really decent ones will cost more than the axe and I'm not sure the Mexican ones for $50 would sound $50 better.

Eventually if you want to trade this Squier for a Fender it will be worth exactly the same as it is now even if you do $250 worth of upgrades on it. So why throw a bunch of money at it?

A proper shielding job is never a waste on single coil Fender style guitars or basses. If you choose to do a tone cap swap for better clean tones or more distorted tones that can be a benefit to you for a few dollars more. I'd use the vintage ceramic disc cap for $1 and shield it and have under $20 invested.

THEN as previously suggested, you can take it to a good tech for a professional setup with new strings. You'll get more playing enjoyment from a pro setup than from a pickup swap. Once you get it back, play the heck out of it. I've been messing with guitars and basses since 1968. I can set one up, but not as good as a professional tech who does setups all day long 5 or 6 days a week. Be sure to get a quote for a setup in advance and ask about the turnaround time.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Regarding Ongoing Upgrades To My First Telecaster
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:30 am
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Hey Joe, Welcome aboard.
I must say I like you're approach to the hobby. I started out in a similar way some 35 years ago. My first guitars were budget friendly models and I enjoyed tinkering with them repairing the simple things first and then progressing to the things like repairing jacks, changing pickups, setting the action, crowning and polishing frets etc.. All the time learning to play and in the process getting better quality guitars. I've found over the years that this has helped me make better choices when purchasing guitars and amps. Work the hardest on your playing and at the same time learn how to set up and repair your guitars, it will pay off in the long run. After having experienced the whole process I now do all my own setup and really enjoy it. These days just give me a Tele and DRRI amp and I'm in heaven. :D :D :D

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