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How common are fakes?
http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=117685
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Author:  Heft [ Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  How common are fakes?

I'm looking for a deal on an american Strat or Telecaster. Am I safe to buy off eBay?

Author:  BMW-KTM [ Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

You could run the ad by our members here first before you buy if you like.
Just post a link here and our peeps will take a look at it for you and tell you what they think.
We have some folks who are pretty decent at sleuthing out the fakes.

Author:  CB91710 [ Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

Fakes are extremely common, particularly fakes of American models.
I was quite surprised to find that someone on another forum actually ended up with a fake *Epiphone*! Normally, not worth it to fake low-end guitars, but Chinese fakes are costing less than $200 so even reselling at a "reasonable" price for a used $500 guitar yields a nice profit.

But for US-made Fenders, outright fakes and "Partscasters" are extremely common. Often, when buying used, the owner is not even aware that he is selling a Partscaster, as he may have not been the builder or original owner.
A serial number check against the Fender database is the starting point. A mismatch of body color or configuration could indicate that the neck was swapped onto a different body.

Author:  Retroverbial [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

I once heard it said that the number of fake Z28 Camaro's lined up end-to-end would stretch to the moon and back.

For Fake-o-casters, they'd likely reach all the way to Pluto.

:lol:
Arjay

Author:  CB91710 [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

Retroverbial wrote:
I once heard it said that the number of fake Z28 Camaro's lined up end-to-end would stretch to the moon and back.

For Fake-o-casters, they'd likely reach all the way to Pluto. :lol:

The sad thing is, many of these "fakes" were not built with the intent to deceive... someone just bought something cheap and wanted to make it nicer. I've seen a lot of "Z28" first gen Camaros with a 350 and automatic trans... complete with the "302" badge. I guess if GM could degrade the Z28 to nothing more than a cosmetic package, then the owners could upgrade theirs?

Sadly, after these were sold/pawned... or liquidated through estate sales, the 2nd owners may honestly have believed that they had "barn finds", and resold as authentic, or knew exactly what it was and intended to take advantage of buyers.

Author:  Retroverbial [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

CB91710 wrote:
I guess if GM could degrade the Z28 to nothing more than a cosmetic package, then the owners could upgrade theirs?

Sure.

Unless/until they try to foist them off on an unsuspecting buyer as an authentic artifact.

Same with guitars.

Somebody usually ends up getting hosed.

:(
Arjay

Author:  BMW-KTM [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

Since it's been 2 weeks and the OP has not returned I assume it's OK to continue the thread derailment.

I wonder if you fellows could enlighten me about the Zed.
I remember it was developed as a pony car to race in Trans Am.
If memory serves, I think maybe engine size was limited to 305 cubes or something around there in Trans Am, which was why the Zed got the 302 rather than a 327.
I don't recall what year Pontiac came out with their version or what engine was in it.
Presumably the 301 and I think maybe 1969 but not sure.

So where I need some enlightenment is the timeframe for when the designations stopped being about the racing series and started being just a trim level.
I recall the Pontiac TAs having 400s and 455s in them in the 70s so unless Trans Am changed the rules GM must have already abandoned the series as the reason for the model(s).
I assume they did change the rules for engines at some point because I see Vettes are now racing in Trans Am.
Unless GM is making an engine for the Vette not listed as an option.
Or perhaps Trans Am is something like NASCAR where everybody has the same engine?

Author:  Retroverbial [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

BMW-KTM wrote:
I don't recall what year Pontiac came out with their version or what engine was in it.
Presumably the 301 and I think maybe 1969 but not sure.

According to Wikipedia's listing for the Pontiac Firebird......

"During 1969 a special 303 cu in (5.0 L) engine was designed for SCCA road racing applications that was not available in production cars."

If memory serves, this powerplant was a de-stroked 326 fitted with the cylinder heads and induction system from Pontiac's Ram Air IV 400. A forged crankshaft, connecting rods, and pistons were some of the additional enhancements along with four-bolt main bearings and improved oiling capability at high RPMs.

Apparently there was no factory participation or sponsorship for SCCA racing prior to 1969 and no Pontiac 5.0L motors built by GM for the 1967 and 1968 seasons.

Arjay

Author:  CB91710 [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

Ya, I don't recall a Trans-Am model of the Firebird for '67/'68
Not sure about racing sponsorship, but by 1975, Z28 was little more than a cosmetics package with EPA regulations choking engine performance... the production vehicles were no longer suitable for "stock" class competition, and manufacturers were forced to run big blocks to provide modest street performance.

Author:  Retroverbial [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

The Z28 option for the Camaro was discontinued at the end of the 1974 model year, replaced by a "Rallye Sport" package for 1975 consisting of two-tone paint (black over whatever), front and rear spoilers, special argent-painted 14-inch rallye wheels, GM-spec steel-belted RWL radial tires, sport suspension, and Rallye Sport badging. Power was provided by a 145 hp (SAE net) 350-4bbl.

The Z28 option re-emerged in 1977 and, relative to its contemporary competition, offered real performance features including the 180 bhp (SAE net) LM1 350-4bbl motor, an available close-ratio 4-spd gearbox, a 3.73 positraction axle, model-specific 15-inch wheels with non GM-spec radial tires, model-specific suspension enhancements, front and rear spoilers, and special Z28 badging.

By contrast, Mopar offered NOTHING AT ALL and Ford was still flogging a V6 Pinto dressed up to look like a Mustang.

Arjay

Author:  BMW-KTM [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

Wiki says the Firebird TA in 1971 had only one engine option, the 455.
I'm thinking that means GM had already reduced the TA and Zed models to nothing more than trim levels by as early as 1971.
Actually, since I have as yet been unable to find any information on the existence of a pre 1971 TA, I am beginning to suspect 1971 may have been the first year, which in my mind makes the TA name choice .... interesting.


I have a tidbit of interesting info that you gents may possibly not be aware of.
Wiki lists the 455 as the only engine for 1971& 1972 TAs.
What is missing from that Wiki entry is that the 455 was the engine used in USA built TAs.
Canadian made TAs had Chevy 454s in them.
My friend's older brother bought one with a 454 brand new in 1972.
It was a romper.

That wasn't an completely unusual practice.
I had a 1986 Cutlass with a Chevy 305, not an Olds engine.
That car had long legs with an axle ratio well under 3:1.
I can't remember for certain but I think possibly 2.56:1
Coupled with a TH2004R it had anemic acceleration but it got great fuel efficiency.
At 100 kph (61mph) it would tach around 1800-1900 once the converter locked up.
I always wanted to put in a 3.73 set but sold it due to what I call The John Lennon Universal Truth.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.

Edited due to typo.

Author:  BMW-KTM [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

I remember those pitiful Pinto Mustangs.
LOL

Author:  Retroverbial [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

BMW-KTM wrote:
Actually, since I have as yet been unable to find any information on the existence of a pre 1971 TA, I am beginning to suspect 1971 may have been the first year, which in my mind makes the TA name choice .... interesting.

Au contraire......



Arjay

Author:  BMW-KTM [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

Thanks

Author:  Heft [ Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How common are fakes?

So, I'm looking at 2 american standrds now from the same (local) store. Just wondering if you could give an opinion.
https://junctionguitars.com/collections ... lack-strat
and
https://junctionguitars.com/collections ... ck-strat-1

Let me know if you think they are worth a look. The prices are Canadian dollars.

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