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Post subject: Diminished
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:30 am
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A chord is number of notes happening at the same time.
Pianists accuse us guitar players for not being able to execute this, which is nonsense - work it out.

Take a diminished chord.
1 b3 b5 6 simple as that.
Learn all forms across the board, which is easy,
there are only 3 of them.
Plus, they repeat every 4 frets as inversions.
While you learn, try to make music,
'cause this is what it is all about.

Now the fun begins:

A diminished chord consists of minor thirds or augmented ninths, way to further in the future.

If you calculate each interval as a natural number, you get:

1 2 3 4 = 24 permutations.

1234 2341 3412 4123 Write it down for yourself.

Now you have arrived at the core of theory.
Welcome

This principle holds true to every form of combination.
2 elements = 2 permutations
3 elements = 6 permutations
4 elements = 24 permutations
5 elements = 1x2x3x4x5 = ? permutations

Not only did you sum up all the possibilities,
you do know now, inside there is the one rhythmic,
melodic idea you were looking for.

Why did not somebody else in the past have told you that,
you may ask

1. They did not know
2. It is called greedy human nature

Don't be angry, now you know
Start composing right away


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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:55 am
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Harald4 wrote:
A chord is number of notes happening at the same time.
Pianists accuse us guitar players for not being able to execute this

do they? Pianists accuse guitar players of not being able to play chords? Wow I've known a lot of piano players over the years, they must be keeping it on the inside.

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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:05 pm
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it is not the numbers, just a hint.
Sometimes, as on stage, I omit certain notes,
still the essence remains.

How can anyone with an always out-of-tune instrument
claim any truth inside this discussion ever ?

The keyboard player in my bop quartet was constantly
soldering on his Fender Rhodes, he simply could not understand this instrument of his was a piece of crap.

Pythagoras, the only solution, a synth.

You may try to overcome physics, although, it is not possible.
I may be supercritical, but that is my nature as a guitar player.


Besides, what do I do with this lazy afternoon ?

(I accept you as my avatar now, so feed me!)

I might have some fun learning a Larry Carlton tune from:
Last nite.

The 1st tune requires some non-humane stretching
of the left hand, that's why I avoided it for so many years.

This is a complete new topic.

LC has a concept of playing 2 lines at once,
what he does know, the congruence of sound.

Here we are back at the Mustang.

How do I get this Mustang thing to sound even at low attacks,
and when does it start to bark ?

Talk to me, friends


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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:30 pm
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Now to the fun part.

There is this guy David Lindley.
Happy is his 2nd name.
If you did not know him,
you've missed the better part of life.

also Kid Creole and the Coconuts,

take life easy


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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:45 pm
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Did you have fun accusing me for omitting a letter ?
Who are you anyway to scratch my numbers ?

The question here is, obviously, as a macho thing,
are you able to play the things, I can


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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:20 pm
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Guitarists are sometimes unable to place the notes of a chord, due to the interval between strings, in a way that makes sense to a pianist.
We rarely follow the sequence of root first, then third, then fifth, then top.
Most guitar chords are what a pianist might call an inversion or a modified inversion.
Pretty hard to play a 7 and a flatted 9 together without deviating from what some pianists would call proper note placement.
That and the sometimes necessary omission of one or more notes in a complicated chord is what pianists like to tease guitarists about, not that we can't play chords.
A pianist will not tell a guitarist that he can't play chords.
He'll tell the guitarist he can't play chords properly, according to their way of thinking about chords.
If he does tell you you aren't playing chords, feel free to advise him of his permanent lifetime status as a frikken brain-dead idiot because he also routinely plays inversions.
I won't tolerate that sort of behaviour.
I've been playing guitar for coming up on 50 years.
Some jerk tries to tell me I'm not doing it properly?
And means it?
Like, not as a joke?
I'm going to kick his sorry butt half way around the block and he won't be getting any more play time with me or with anybody I know.

Is that macho enough for you?
:wink:

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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:44 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Guitarists are sometimes unable to place the notes of a chord, due to the interval between strings, in a way that makes sense to a pianist.
We rarely follow the sequence of root first, then third, then fifth, then top.
Most guitar chords are what a pianist might call an inversion or a modified inversion.
Pretty hard to play a 7 and a flatted 9 together without deviating from what some pianists would call proper note placement.
That and the sometimes necessary omission of one or more notes in a complicated chord is what pianists like to tease guitarists about, not that we can't play chords.
A pianist will not tell a guitarist that he can't play chords.
He'll tell the guitarist he can't play chords properly, according to their way of thinking about chords.
If he does tell you you aren't playing chords, feel free to advise him of his permanent lifetime status as a frikken brain-dead idiot because he also routinely plays inversions.
I won't tolerate that sort of behaviour.
I've been playing guitar for coming up on 50 years.
Some jerk tries to tell me I'm not doing it properly?
And means it?
Like, not as a joke?
I'm going to kick his sorry butt half way around the block and he won't be getting any more play time with me or with anybody I know.

Is that macho enough for you?
:wink:
Well explained and put, Matt.

As a dabbler on the keyboard, fair to middlin' on the guitar, and proficient on the drums, I don't see all the fuss.

I'd like to have some coin for all the times that I heard a drummer (make that percussionist) wasn't a musician. True there are bad ones, but certainly no less than horn players, keyboardists, and, yes, guitar/bass players.:wink:
I'm sure Neil Peart, Dave Grohl, Ringo, Don Henley, Frank Zappa (were he alive) and dozens of their buddies would love to meet those ill informed face to face. :P
FSB

For the doubters . . . look up the super groups that have drummers or double up musicians as writers and leaders of the band.

I can't read piano music, but I can read percussion notation and some guitar. I learned to play acoustic six and twelve string first before learning the ins and outs of electric which alerted me to appreciate the complexity of it all. Not unlike percussion at it's top skill.

Learning any instrument can be a life long commitment. Hard to say how many (some give 8400 + http://www.playpiano.com/Articles/29-howmanychords.htm) chords a keyboard can create, drums have 40 rudiments, hybrid rudiments, and multiple simultaneous combinations with both hands and feet, and a guitar has more than 2000 chords for contorted fingers. Whatever the case, one's present skill and performance usually outweighs the chances that those chords or rudiments will show up at will.

No offence meant here, but today's keyboardists (including myself) can have and be the whole band with piano, synths, guitar, horns, and percussion all at their fingertips.

Unfortunately, many keyboard players with music snobbishness think that gives them a certificate to announce that they are competent enough to have expertise in those sounds without ever having hands on skills with the actual instrument. Some keyboardist are multi-talented, however; but they are an exception and not the norm. Thankfully, there are the others.

That said, my respect is pretty much equal across the board and I never forget that it takes a combined effort to make good music either as a band or as an individual. IMHO. Any other suggestion that contradicts that basic premise gives me stomach pains from laughter.


'Talent is unfair and undemocratic; it's also inarguable.' Tricia Tunstall

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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:55 am
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
For the doubters . . . look up the super groups that have drummers or double up musicians as writers and leaders of the band.


Phil Collins immediately springs to mind......

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:29 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
For the doubters . . . look up the super groups that have drummers or double up musicians as writers and leaders of the band.


Phil Collins immediately springs to mind......

Arjay
Yup! and yup again. :mrgreen:
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:58 pm
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Very well said Matt, FSB and Arjay. I couldn't agree more. :)

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Post subject: Re: Diminished
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:44 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Guitarists are sometimes unable to place the notes of a chord, due to the interval between strings, in a way that makes sense to a pianist.

well that's that, and also the fact that a guitar can play a maximum of 6 notes at a time, where a piano + sustain pedal allows a piano player significantly more simultaneous notes. A piano also has bass notes; a guitar does not. It would make more sense to compare a piano to a guitar+bass combo. And nobody including Jan Hammer can make a keyboard sound quite like an electric guitar with distortion so there!!

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