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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:55 am
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Toppscore wrote:
Doc. Thanks for the input.
I am thinking a 4ohm amp will drive two 8ohm speakers.
Does this fit into the equation?


No problem, PROVIDED THE SPEAKERS ARE RATED TO HANDLE THE WATTS OF THE AMP, AND they are wired in PARALLEL - the two 8's would become 4 ohm. Or, if the two speakers are in separate cabs, just use a Y connector and plug it into the amp.

Quote:
Also, a 5-watt amp and a 130-watt amp, both with 8-ohms or 4-ohms
will be working an 8-ohm speaker differently, don't you think?
Toppscore.


If the amp is SOLID STATE 5 watt 4ohm and the speaker is 8 ohm it will only be performing as about a 2.5 watt amp.

But if the amp and speakers are matched impedance, 4 or 8, for sure the 5 watt won't deliver the kind of volume and power that the 130 watt would, but it should still deliver it's 5 watts effectively (even though the speaker cab is rated for a max of 130 watts). As I understand it, the RMS rating on speakers is a maximum that is not to be exceeded. However, I am not sure what power level, if any, that the 130 watt speaker cab will need to reach optimal or even satisfactory performance. You could be right - it could suck. I don't know. But in a week from now, the first chance i will have to introduce the two to their new dance partners, I'll find out. I'll keep you posted.

Heck, I'm old school. Until the Mustang, I never thought I would own an amp with ONE speaker, let alone an 8 inch speaker. I sure as heck never thought I would own a 5 watt, or even a 15 watt amplifier. So this is a situation for which I have no frame of reference in my 45 years of playing. But I keep being surprised right out of my socks. And hey, isn't it fun!

Doc


Last edited by Doc Waters on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:01 pm
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Doc...thanks alot for taking the time to write that out, i do appreciate it...I will honestly stay with what i am using which is a SCXD with the SCX2 cab it has great tone...the only reason I was contiplating it was because it seemed easy enough..(famous last words) Thanks again for your time.


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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:39 am
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Doc. Don't you feel a 130watt amp would blow out a champ speaker?

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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:12 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
Doc. Don't you feel a 130watt amp would blow out a champ speaker?


Whoaaaaa... FOR SURE! :shock:

I'm NOT planning on hooking up a 130 watt head to a 5 watt or 15 watt champ speaker. I'm talking about hooking up my 4 ohm 5 watt champ head to an external speaker cab that is rated at 4ohms and can handle 130 watts max RMS (the cab I usually use on my 130 watt head).

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that. My goodness, with 130 watts fed into it, I'm guessin' that little 8 inch Champ speaker wouldn't likely last the first power chord at any kind of volume.

Man, am I glad you posted that. I just went back and edited my previous post so that it is doubly clear that I wasn't recommending running a head of greater watts into speakers of lesser watts. Whew!

Doc


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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:10 am
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Personally, I do know and have been learning about speaker/amp handshaking
this year. I will be designing to have some dedicated speaker cabinets built.

One thing I do notice in most all comments in most all threads is the fact
that most comments discuss matching the amp - speaker cabinet ohms.

Very few include the wattage relationship.
I cannot recall how the wattage ratings work,
except you are safe if the amps' watts are less than the speaker's rated watts
and that the ohm match-up are correct.

But, can a 5 watt amp drive a 300 watt speaker? Probably.
Would a single 300 watt speaker work well with a 300 watt amp? at 10 volume?
Or, is their a ratio of twice the speaker watts to the amp watts - or something similar?


Soon, I will learn the formula or the desired amp/speaker watt relationship.
Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:01 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
... you are safe if the amps' watts are less than the speaker's rated watts and that the ohm match-up are correct.

Under normal operating conditions, yup. But if you are running the amp at extremely high volumes, you want to make sure the speaker watts are rated a fair bit higher than the amps watts. See below...
Quote:
Would a single 300 watt speaker work well with a 300 watt amp? at 10 volume?

I won't do it. That leaves ZERO headroom (think of it as safe room between what your amp can put out, and what the speaker can handle). Without trying to explain "clipping" let's just say that cranked at 10, that speaker will over heat and fry. Been there, done that. Personally, I would use four 12 inch speakers, each rated at least 120 watts minimum. Total combined max watts 4x120=480 watts. That leaves you 180 watts headroom between what your amp puts out and the point at which your speaker coil melts.

Truth is, I wouldn't run any amp at 10. If I were going to run a tube amp at really high levels, I would be sure that the combined total watts of the speakers is quite a bit higher than the rating of the amp, because the amp can overheat and damage the speakers. Solid state amps are really susceptible to speaker burnout if run too hot. If I had to continually turn the volume up much past 5, I would get an amp with more watts.

Doc


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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:12 am
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Doc Waters wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
... you are safe if the amps' watts are less than the speaker's rated watts and that the ohm match-up are correct.

Under normal operating conditions, yup. But if you are running the amp at extremely high volumes, you want to make sure the speaker watts are rated a fair bit higher than the amps watts. See below...
Quote:
Would a single 300 watt speaker work well with a 300 watt amp? at 10 volume?

I won't do it. That leaves ZERO headroom (think of it as safe room between what your amp can put out, and what the speaker can handle). Without trying to explain "clipping" let's just say that cranked at 10, that speaker will over heat and fry. Been there, done that. Personally, I would use four 12 inch speakers, each rated at least 120 watts minimum. Total combined max watts 4x120=480 watts. That leaves you 180 watts headroom between what your amp puts out and the point at which your speaker coil melts.

Truth is, I wouldn't run any amp at 10. If I were going to run a tube amp at really high levels, I would be sure that the combined total watts of the speakers is quite a bit higher than the rating of the amp, because the amp can overheat and damage the speakers. Solid state amps are really susceptible to speaker burnout if run too hot. If I had to continually turn the volume up much past 5, I would get an amp with more watts.
Doc

Thanks Doc. Actually my 130w Twin or my 100w amp heads
like 2-4 speaker cab setups. rather than single speaker cabinets.
Much easier to deal with.

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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
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At the risk of flogging a dead horse, I thought I should report back, as promised, about introducing my 5 watt Vibro Champ XD to my 4x12 130 watt cab (actually it's a 200 watt cab - but who's counting - I usually drive a 130 watt amp through them).

The cab and the VC amp are both 4 ohms. So, would the "Little Vibro Camp That Could" flex it's big 5 watt muscle enough to rock that big honkin cab's world? Inquiring minds want to know.

(taking bets on the side)......

wait for it now..........

.......................

YES! :shock:

She sang like a canary. Actually much louder than her native 8" speaker. In fact there was deep rich tone, and sparkling highs pouring out by the bucket load. These are not your grand pappy's watts! (Of course, we all know it's not really about watts, it's about speaker sensitivity - but I digress). And, no bull pucky, it was loud enough to actually play a small hall or night club. Or, severely tick my neighbor off. I guess they don't call 'em Champs for nuttin'.

Of course, the question begs to be asked: "If you were gonna hump that monster speaker cab to a gig, why would you take the VC and not the matching head?"

For a laugh. :wink:

Final thought: if that's what the little 5 watt can do, I can't wait to own its big bro' the 15 watt Super Champ X2 when they finally arrive in my little Canadian cow town.

Doc


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Post subject: Re: Stacking combo on the 1x12 cab?
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:44 pm
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I've read on numerous other forums that you can go double or half the ohms with a tube amp without any problems. The Super Champ X2 is an honest tube amp, it just has digital effects.

What I did with mine was to plug in a Y splitter into the speaker jack and connect the built in speaker to one end and connect the Super Champ cabinet to the other. Worked like a champ!

When I first hooked it up, I put a volume pedal between the amp and the 12" cab but it only sounded ballanced with it all the way up so I removed it from the signal path.

In the video below, I was running a SCXD, SCX2 and the 12" SC cab along with the Mustang Floor.

The SCX2 doesn't sit properly on top of the SC cab because the rubber feet aren't tall enough to lift it over the handle on the cabinet. Turn the cab on it's side and you will be fine but the logo will be twisted.

The feet on the SCXD are tall enough and work good.

I opted to just use my Fender 2X12 vintage Bandmaster cab when I want to move more air.

The way it has worked out, I just run the line out to my stereo and balance it with the internal speaker and it gives me everything I want and it is less trouble than messing with an external cab.

Fender Strat with Mustang Floor and Super Champ X2 XD Stack
http://youtu.be/FLzy9K5iSIY

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