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Post subject: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:36 pm
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Hello all.
I am the proud owner of a Mustang III (V.2).
I recently came across a nice pawn shop find. A Bugera Vintage 5 (5 watt) tube amp.
I am a big fan of this little amp and would like to gig with it, but it just doesn't have quite enough volume to it. We don't always mic our amps, and sometimes the room is big enough where the little 8" Bugera would be able to keep up....especially with clean tones.
Anyway, I am wondering if there is a way to utilize both amps.
My goal here is to keep the sweet tube tone of the Bugera, but increase the volume of the output.
The Bugera has a Speaker Out jack in the back. This is where the stock 8" speaker plugs into the "head".
Could I run a Speaker cord out of that Jack and into the effect loop return of the Mustang? Thereby utilizing the 12" speaker in the Mustang to present the tube tones?
Might seem silly to some of you....just wondering if it can be done.
Thanks in advance.

Mac


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:20 pm
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back in the 80's I had a Yamaha rack effects processor that had LT and RT outputs, I ran a Fender twin on one side and a Crate twin on the other. Sounded great and even got some pseudo stereo from the box. In your case I would be cautious about putting any amplified device through your effects loop. My impression is that most items meant for the effects loop don't impart any significant power. My thought is that putting an amplified device through the loop may have a negative effect on the digital component of the Mustang, but I may be completely wrong. There are a bunch of amp techs, builders, and restorers on here, most of the will have a more informed opinion than me. So there you have it a reply with no solid info,lol. :?


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:22 am
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Casey Mac wrote:
Could I run a Speaker cord out of that Jack and into the effect loop return of the Mustang? Thereby utilizing the 12" speaker in the Mustang to present the tube tones?

Only if the next thing you want to do is buy a new Mustang.

You might use some kind of attenuating device to get the speaker out back down to line levels (I had something like this 20 years ago because my car stereo didn't have preamp outs and I "needed" a power amp for my big-ass subwoofer in the boot), but how that will sound depends on how much of the Bugera's tone actually comes from its speaker.


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:41 am
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Realistically the only way you could use the amps together would be to run a dual amp configuration using an ABY switch from the guitar into both amps. You can actually get some pretty interesting BIG sounds in this manner and it doesn't really require a lot of wattage since sound pressure levels are accumulative. In bigger rooms you could just mic both amps.

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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:27 am
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Thanks for the info. I figured it wouldn't work, but I wanted to put the question out there just in case.

I knew (thought) 5 watts wasn't going to be enough for gigging, but it was a deal that I couldn't pass up. To get a tube amp for $70. I do have access to a really nice 2x10" cabinet that I can run out of the speaker out jack on the Bugera, but in all honesty, it really doesn't add much volume. It definitely gives me a much more defined sound, but it's only just a bit louder. I just love the tone of that little guy. I am not a huge fan of getting my stage sound through a monitor, but I guess it would be worth it to get the tone. I will rehearse with the cabinet this week and see how it does. I just wish there was a way to boost the signal between the amp and the cabinet.


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:15 am
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if you have any delay or chorus pedals that provide stereo (Guitar in to L:out R:out) there is your solution.


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:34 am
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KidBlast wrote:
if you have any delay or chorus pedals that provide stereo (Guitar in to L:out R:out) there is your solution.


Thanks, but I am not just trying to use the two amps together (in tandem). I am trying to use the 12" speaker in my Mustang to amplify the 5 watt (8") Tube Amp volume so I can gig with that tube tone. Starting to think it might be wise to just try to upgrade amps.

I love my Mustang, but I have trouble getting a true tube amp sound out of it. Maybe it's just my brain knowing that it's not a tube amp....it comes close, but it's just not exactly what I want. Part of the problem is that the other guitar player in my band plays through a Princeton Reverb every week. and I just shows me how good the sound can be....


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:59 am
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ok I follow.

however, you may be surprised with what a stereo setup can offer. if you have the stuff for it, I guess it's one of this..

nothing ventured...

situations.

best,
/ray


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:31 pm
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KidBlast wrote:
ok I follow.

however, you may be surprised with what a stereo setup can offer. if you have the stuff for it, I guess it's one of this..

nothing ventured...

situations.

best,
/ray


Great point. I will give it a shot and see how she sounds.
Thanks for your help.


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:46 pm
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Casey Mac wrote:
KidBlast wrote:
if you have any delay or chorus pedals that provide stereo (Guitar in to L:out R:out) there is your solution.


Thanks, but I am not just trying to use the two amps together (in tandem). I am trying to use the 12" speaker in my Mustang to amplify the 5 watt (8") Tube Amp volume so I can gig with that tube tone. Starting to think it might be wise to just try to upgrade amps.

I love my Mustang, but I have trouble getting a true tube amp sound out of it. Maybe it's just my brain knowing that it's not a tube amp....it comes close, but it's just not exactly what I want. Part of the problem is that the other guitar player in my band plays through a Princeton Reverb every week. and I just shows me how good the sound can be....
Casey, getting a great tune like sound and response from a Mustang III (v2) involves exploring the various Modeled Amps and the Deep Page 2 Amp features on the Amp, (or, via FUSE (PC/MAC) or REMUDA (Android)). By choosing the Basic Amp model your ear prefers, and varying the Advanced Amp features: Gain & Drive Levels as well as the Sag, Bias, Noise Gate, Cabinet Simulations, etc. on the Adv Amp Page 2 settings menu, you can get amazing response and tone from the various amp models! The Sag and Bias controls have a significant effect on some of the models! Some respond very differently when the Master Volume is set higher than usual and the Gain, Drive, Drive 2 levels are set lower. This is without any FX enabled. When you add the Mustang's FX things can get even better depending on what you are going for.

As for feeding the Tube Amp to the Mustang's FX Loop Input, you'll need something to step down the Tube amps's powered output to provide you a line level signal to feed to the Mustang's FX Loop Rtn.

As for running a dual Amp setup, this is a great way to go! As soon as I got my second Mustang it was a whole new way to play! If you can grab another MIII (v2) used or on sale you'd be set!

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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:46 pm
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Casey Mac wrote:
Thanks, but I am not just trying to use the two amps together (in tandem). I am trying to use the 12" speaker in my Mustang to amplify the 5 watt (8") Tube Amp volume so I can gig with that tube tone.

Hooking the 5W amp up to a 12" speaker instead of 8" will give you less volume, not more. The speaker is much heavier, and it takes more power to move it. You'll get deeper bass, but less volume.


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Post subject: Re: "Slaving" amps....
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:10 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Casey Mac wrote:
Thanks, but I am not just trying to use the two amps together (in tandem). I am trying to use the 12" speaker in my Mustang to amplify the 5 watt (8") Tube Amp volume so I can gig with that tube tone.

Hooking the 5W amp up to a 12" speaker instead of 8" will give you less volume, not more. The speaker is much heavier, and it takes more power to move it. You'll get deeper bass, but less volume.



Arth1, I LOVE your Avatar!!!! I quit drinking 16 years ago but that Avatar looks great. (-:


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