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Post subject: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:39 pm
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Listed below are a few Ideas for some hacks. Would love to hear ideas from others.

1. Cram a 10" speaker into an MI. I did some measurements and I think it's possible.

2. Add a balanced XLR line out to an MI or MII. I think this can be done with a small transformer placed in series with the speaker connection.

3. Make an amp-in-case using a Mustang Mini. As a member of the geriatric crowd I could really appreciate being able to take one item to a jam (obviously I would also need to mic it).

All the above are just ideas. I have not attempted any of the them...yet. :D

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:42 pm
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#3 would be very cool.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:01 am
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#2: XLR outs in series with the speaker connection would sound like $@!& because the Mustang's own cab/speaker component is missing from the sound.
You'd have to use the signal that gets sent to the headphone jack, they add a speaker emulation (on top of the cab modelling) to that. Just like they do to the XLR outs on the MIII and up.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:19 am
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ChrisH1 wrote:
#2: XLR outs in series with the speaker connection would sound like $@!& because the Mustang's own cab/speaker component is missing from the sound.
You'd have to use the signal that gets sent to the headphone jack, they add a speaker emulation (on top of the cab modelling) to that. Just like they do to the XLR outs on the MIII and up.


The sound taken directly from the power amp would certainly not incorporate the cabinet/speaker component of the tone. However, it's not entirely clear why that would sound bad. Definitely be different but I'm not certain it would be bad.

Nevertheless, to direct the headphone output to a balanced xlr out is a better choice.

Thanks,

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Last edited by mhowell on Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:23 am
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strings10927 wrote:
#3 would be very cool.


Agreed. Peavey did it in the 80's and Silvertone did it in the 60's. I've also seen a lapsteel with amp in case from the 30's or 40's.

Seems like a natural for the Mustang Mini.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:23 am
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mhowell wrote:
However, it's not entirely clear why that would sound bad. Definitely be different but I'm not certain it would be bad.

Trust me, it is.
To see for yourself, just connect a FRFR speaker instead of the Celestion one. It's way too shrill and harsh. You might to be able to equalize most of that out depending on what's on the other end of the XLR cable, but it will still be worse than just "different".


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:23 pm
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ChrisH1 wrote:
mhowell wrote:
However, it's not entirely clear why that would sound bad. Definitely be different but I'm not certain it would be bad.

Trust me, it is.
To see for yourself, just connect a FRFR speaker instead of the Celestion one. It's way too shrill and harsh. You might to be able to equalize most of that out depending on what's on the other end of the XLR cable, but it will still be worse than just "different".


I can't say removing the cabinet emulations is bad in all cases. There are a number of presets I've set up without the cabinet emulation because they came out a lot cleaner which was what I was looking for. Particularly when I'm playing the Gretsch. However, I'd hate to not have the option of using cabinet emulation because a lot of stuff doesn't come out that well.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:55 am
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ChrisH1 wrote:
mhowell wrote:
However, it's not entirely clear why that would sound bad. Definitely be different but I'm not certain it would be bad.

Trust me, it is.
To see for yourself, just connect a FRFR speaker instead of the Celestion one. It's way too shrill and harsh. You might to be able to equalize most of that out depending on what's on the other end of the XLR cable, but it will still be worse than just "different".


Isn't just a matter of taking the input signal to the power amp vs the power amp output signal?

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:26 am
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mhowell wrote:
Isn't just a matter of taking the input signal to the power amp vs the power amp output signal?

Why would it? They are identical, only the output signal is louder.

Maybe this clears things up: http://support.fender.com/manuals/guita ... tsLoop.pdf
The cab emulation for headphones/XLR out is equalized for FRFR.
The cab emulation for the poweramp is equalized for the Mustang's speaker(s). And sounds like $@!& on a FRFR system.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:59 am
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ChrisH1 wrote:
mhowell wrote:
Isn't just a matter of taking the input signal to the power amp vs the power amp output signal?

Why would it? They are identical, only the output signal is louder.

Maybe this clears things up: http://support.fender.com/manuals/guita ... tsLoop.pdf
The cab emulation for headphones/XLR out is equalized for FRFR.
The cab emulation for the poweramp is equalized for the Mustang's speaker(s). And sounds like $@!& on a FRFR system.


Got it.

Thanks,

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:01 am
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I tryed a FRFR speaker inside a Mustang I V1. It was a Visaton BG20 dual cone that fit exactly in place of original speaker. The result was not satisfactory since the power amp output is equalized. I tryed also to make a LCR filter to compensate the response but distorted tones were not good as they were using headphone out and a external powered FRFR spaker.
Finally i decided to replace the original speaker with a similar and better Celestion. This have the same caster and cone but bigger magnet and the suspension is not treated. I changed back panel with a thicker one and put some acoustic foam inside. Now te overall sound is far less boxed as before,.surely better.
I would like to put inside the case a new power amp and take internally the signal from headphone out and drive again the visaton fitted inside. External tests were encouraging... But since i'm busy trying to learn to play guitar (few results), this remains just an idea :D

i did some measures of different frequency responses, it seems that internal power amp has an extra boost of mid hi. This make harsh the sound of a FRFR speaker.
http://merifon.altervista.org/mustang1% ... q-resp.jpg


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:32 am
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merifon wrote:
I would like to put inside the case a new power amp and take internally the signal from headphone out and drive again the visaton fitted inside.

Look, there is a reason why guitar amps use guitar amp speakers.
Even Fender in their modelling "we emulate all kinds of different amps" Mustangs didn't go for a FRFR speaker.

If you want that, get a Mustang Floor.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:56 am
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ChrisH1 wrote:
Look, there is a reason why guitar amps use guitar amp speakers.
Even Fender in their modelling "we emulate all kinds of different amps" Mustangs didn't go for a FRFR speaker.

If you want that, get a Mustang Floor.


I agree but customize things is undoubtedly funny...
Another crazy idea is to expand in depth the back side of M1, install a second powered FRFR speaker and select by switch wich speaker (and side) use...

I believe that the reason why they use real guitar speakers for a modelling amp, is a greater uniformity of results.
With FRFR inside, the clean tones were better than original but distorted tones were bad.
The low frequencies were deeper but overall presence was missing something.

A big improvement was just replacing back panel with a thicker one. The too much thin original tend to vibrate and give a shoe box sound. I think the M1 is too small for open back and not thought for it.
Also, in apartment use, a closed back is easier to place.

Anyway am still believing that the M1 tones, are better via headphone output and external speaker. Maybe, with greater Mustang models, things are different.

For my attempts to learn the guitar, I'm currently using a modelling software but a real amp keeps its fascination...


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:48 pm
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I would offer my kingdom for a Mustang amp with a front facing control panel.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Hack Suggestions
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:18 am
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mhowell, you mean one you can actually see while using it? I'm with you there.

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