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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:42 pm
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With minimal wiring reconfiguration, you can patch into the speaker leads where they connect to the speakers in the rear of the Mustang IV's cabinet.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:08 pm
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MusicLaw wrote:
With minimal wiring reconfiguration, you can patch into the speaker leads where they connect to the speakers in the rear of the Mustang IV's cabinet.


I watched a video where a guy did that, seems way too complicated. It would probably be easier to run the outputs on the MIV to a powered head and then out to the cab. I just mentioned the Marshall as an example, seeing as it's a 300w cab.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:30 pm
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Just to be 100% though, what would you use the left and right line out and the left and right fx return ports for?


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:41 pm
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Quote:
what would you use the left and right line out

To send a line-level signal to some other equipment - eg a PA, an active monitor, a recording desk, etc.

Quote:
and the left and right fx return ports for?

See my previous reply in this topic, in which I explain what the fx-return is supposed to be used for (in conjunction with fx-send as part of an fx-loop), and how you can also use it to input a signal to the Mustang's power-amp, bypassing the DSP etc - which isn't its intended purpose, but due to the way the amp is built happens to work and be useful (and indeed the same is true for most amps with an fx-loop)


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:47 pm
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I'm guessing that some of you guys that posted in this thread have the MIV. Does it sound twangy or whiney to you guys? It's like every model of amp I use, it's hard to add low end. I take away the treble and middle, but the bass drowns everything out. It's very hard to balance it at all when using the treb and mid, because once you start turning them up, the twangy, whiney sound happens. It has that high tinny sound like old Def Leppard or ACDC.

Just to give you an idea what I'm talking about, listen to this first youtube video. It's probably not going to be your taste, but you'll understand better. This song has a deep full sound, the EQ is set right. It's by Disincarnate, they're a metal band, but the tone is what I'm trying to get across.



OK, and now listen to this song by Def Leppard. This is how my amp sounds pretty much all the time, with different variations with the reverb or other effects. It's still that twangy whiney sound.



I would like the full even sound like the top video, but all I get is the sound from the second video.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:19 am
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What guitar(s) are you using, with what pickups?

What, exactly, are your amp settings? Turn off all effects, and just have an amp model. Which amp model, and what are all the controls set to (every control, on both "pages" of the LCD screen)? What is the Mustang's master volume set to (I mean the Mustang's physical Master Volume knob, which is different to the "mstr" (master volume) within some amp models that you'll see on the LCD).

In what size (approximately) room/space are you playing? Is your amp on the ground or on a stand? If a stand, how high? What is the floor covering (eg carpet, wood, concrete) and (to a lesser extent) what's on the walls (eg plain walls, sound-deadening material, lots of windows, lots of drapes, etc)?

What other musicians / instruments are you playing with (if any)? Sometimes the issue in an ensemble is making sure each instrument has its own 'space' in the mix.

Try one of the 'cleaner' amp models - or at least turn the gain right down on the model you are using. Do you find you have better control over the EQ with a cleaner sound? (not suggesting that's what you should ultimately use, this is just for diagnostics).


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:24 am
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I would suspect it's more likely related to pickups than the amp. I typically find I'm battling too much bass rather than too much treble especially when using humbuckers.

To me the sound you're trying to emulate from the Disincarnate track is more Mid than Bass. I'm keying on the guitar when it plays by itself without the bass guitar at about time marker 0:05. If I were approaching that sound I'd probably use my Les Paul with the pickup selector in the middle position and start with the HiWatt model (British Watts) with Bass at maybe 40%, Mid at 70%, and Treble at 50% then adjust the channel gain and channel volume to taste to get the right overdrive characteristics. You could also probably get close with the British '70s model which is a Marshall Super Lead Plexi, but I find the British Watts not quite as mushy and has better articulation for shredding. You may have to play with a compressor to smooth out the tone.

Normally when I'm trying to set up tones I place my amp on a tilt-back stand facing me about 5 or 6 feet away. That seems to remove all the acoustic tricks your ears play on you if you're standing too close to the amp. It also tends to be about right for the sound I get out of the PA when the amp is mic'd.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 4:36 am
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It seems many people really angst of these details, and I know we are all looking for the "sound in our head"...

it's not always easy to find that. hard to replicate what we'll hear on a studio track. lots of variables to sort out.

and not to add fuel to the fire, but after 50 years of playing this instrument, I've long since come to the conclusion that the best approach is simply, dial in the best sound the amp and guitar is going to give you for the song or style of music you're playing,, then, forget about it and play guitar.

just go for it...

play it right and it's going to be close enough.

I know I'm not helping with answers pertaining to this thread, I don't know how to tell you to accomplish this, just trying to offer a different approach to the problem.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:14 am
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You guys are great, I really appreciate it. I never thought about angling the amp or that the issue could be my guitar. I have a Kramer Baretta Special. It has a double bridge humbucker and no tone controlls, just a vol. pot.

Now to get that deep mid tone I want, I guess I have to look for something from EMG or SD. It currently has a Alnico V Zebra Coil Humbucker which has the Alnico V magnet. I guess I'm just not a fan of brightness.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:18 am
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Quote:
I guess I have to look for something from EMG or SD

I disagree. You don't need to keep changing equipment to get a different sound.

Although I'm increasingly confused what you do want to do. This topic seems to swing from esoteric things that I'd expect quite an experienced guitarist to be looking at (complex setups for live gigging) to basic questions about what an fx-return socket is. Happy to answer all that, but I'm struggling to understand what your setup is and what you're really trying to do. Speaking plainly and not being patronising at all, the impression I have is of "beginner bedroom hero" rather than "experienced gigging guitarist seeking best live setup and tone" (the latter being the impression created by your earlier posts. The former is completely fine and happy to help and encourage you, but it would be useful to know the context of the questions.

As for your tone through the Mustang sounding too bright and not full/fat enough. I said before I'm not a 'metal' player but for interest, prompted by this thread, I just did some experiments with my Mustang IV (guitar - Gibson Les Paul). I used the "American 90s" amp model and turned off all other effects. Just by varying the gain and eq (treble, middle, bass), I could get everything from full and fat, through boomy and bassy, to bright and trebly.

Interestingly, I found that turning the gain down helped fatten up the sound. That was initially counter-intuitive but make sense when I thought about it: less gain means less distortion means fewer higher harmonics, thus more emphasis on the lower frequencies. I then adjusted the EQ to suit.

So, back to my previous question: what amp model and settings are you currently using? If you tell us that, and what you don't like about the resultant sound, someone here may be able to suggest what changes to make to those settings to get you closer to the sound you want. But just try yourself too - it only took me a couple of minutes to dial-in a very wide tonal palette of 'metal' sounds.

Finally, I agree with KidBlast. The most important thing is just to enjoy playing your guitar. Don't get too hung-up on every last detail of the sound.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:58 am
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Since I've started this topic scott-uk almost every post you've made, to me seems like you're in an entirely different discussion then the one I am trying to have. You've blocked me in any attempt I've had an opinion on. Like a used car salesman trying to convince you to buy a car that you can clearly see has a lot of issues, but you sell it like it's fresh out of the factory.

You're dedication to Mustang is strong, too bad they don't endorse you. I didn't start a new topic for every question I had, I don't like to be a forum hog and make it all about me. So I just kept everything of interest to me in one thread.

This is my first experience playing with a modelling amp. I've used a Marshall half stack with a Marshall head for 20 years. I've always used pedals. I picked up this MIV out of curiosity and because the price was so low for a stereo combo. When I've played gigs, I either played straight out of my 300w cab or miced to a mixer board that my singer owned.

Since I now own this MIV, gigging would be a totally different experience. But on the other side of it, this amp may not ever have the sound I am looking for. like making a silk purse from a sow's ear. You may like the bright twangy sound the "modelling" tries to imitate, that is totally whatever taste you have. I have not gigged in 2 years, due to not having enough people with the time or the interest.

If you want, I could record a video sample with my phone and upload it, so you can see what I'm describing. I will use whatever amp models you would like to hear.

The sound I get will most likely be the same sound you get. It's just that maybe I don't like the sound.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 4:34 pm
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Strizay wrote:
You guys are great, I really appreciate it. I never thought about angling the amp or that the issue could be my guitar. I have a Kramer Baretta Special. It has a double bridge humbucker and no tone controlls, just a vol. pot.

Now to get that deep mid tone I want, I guess I have to look for something from EMG or SD. It currently has a Alnico V Zebra Coil Humbucker which has the Alnico V magnet. I guess I'm just not a fan of brightness.


I don't think scott-uk is as stuck on Mustang as you seem to think he is. I know he owns several amps and has talked at length about them. But I suspect he's as mystified as most of us are when to refer to the sounds as "twangy". However now that I see that the guitar you're using has only a double bridge pickup without any tone circuit it makes more sense why you seem to be struggling getting tones that the rest of us have no problems getting from our amps. Like scott-uk I personally don't play metal, but we have played events in which all the bands shared equipment and one of the bands was metal and used my Mustang IV on the Marshall setting and was quite happy with the results, so I know it's possible.

I will add, however, that a lot of us here have made the transition from tube amps to amp modeling after playing for several decades, and there is a considerable learning curve because the paradigm is very different. You could probably get away with using your Baretta but you'd have to shape your EQ on the amp very differently to roll off that high end. Maybe different cabinet selections in FUSE as well as adjustments to the SAG and BIAS. Or...just borrow a buddy's guitar and see how much difference it makes.

Just be glad you're getting exposed to it after only 20 years. Heck, modeling wasn't really even around till I'd been playing almost 40!!! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 12:31 am
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Quote:
You've blocked me in any attempt I've had an opinion on

No, I have answered every question you've asked, and then simply offered further information/opinion. Interestingly, you have declined to answer ("blocked"?) most of the questions back to you that would have helped us further with what you want to do.

Quote:
If you want, I could record a video sample with my phone and upload it, so you can see what I'm describing

Not necessary, I understand exactly what you mean from the songs you posted before. All I asked is: what amp settings are you using? I was willing to do some experiments on my own amp based on your settings to see if I could get closer to the fuller sound you want and tell you the results, in the hope that would give you some pointers on what amp settings might work better for you.

Maybe it's time I left this thread, I genuinely hope you're able to get the sound you want and have fun playing and gigging.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:00 am
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Scott's not trying to push your buttons at all. He's just trying to get a better picture of what your trying to accomplish. to be honest with you, I had pondered some of the same questions he's asked.

It's clearer now, you're not novice, you have this MIV and with all that it's supposed to offer you're hoping to make it work in your setup. at this point, I think it's down to this:

But on the other side of it, this amp may not ever have the sound I am looking for. like making a silk purse from a sow's ear.

having both a MIII and an MIV (v1) I like what they do. The convenience factor of an amp that does a lot of things and does them quite well is appealing to me. It would never replace my pedal board and my tube amps (I have three, a marshall, fender HR Deville and a Gibson Goldtone GA30RVS) .

Lets look at this in real simple comparisons. an MIV is going to run around 500 bucks... You can't put a decent pedal board together for 500 bucks.. most good Tube amps are at least $1k. And you start talking Marshall JVM or similar, and your real fast into $2k. How much can you really expected from a $500 investment.

It's always compromise isn't it?


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:52 am
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As the recent owner of a Mustang III (v2) and Mustang IV (v2), I'm delighted to see the detailed and informative replies from the Forum's veterans. The assorted modeling & on-board effects bundled into these amps do involve a significant familiarization/learning curve to nurture one's desired or best results. Fender's FUSE software expands the use of these further by providing a quick, easy and very visual method to alter, experiment with, and save combination of modeling and effect settings and sequence of elements within the signal chain. These capabilities are outstanding in a product of this price point. Notwithstanding the above, constraints will exist due to the character of the originating signal source. Two of the best reply suggestions may be to try another guitar and vary the Cabinet modeling definitions in the Deep (Page 2) Amp menu. Les Paul's (amongst others) pair wonderfully with the Mustangs! I have three and the pallette of tones from the Mustangs is astounding! Moreover, aside from the inherent backup, feeding the guitar signal to both amps, circumvents the limitation of applying just one Stomp effect at a time -- all at a very modest cost.

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Epi LP Florentine Pro●LP Cstm Pros●LP PlusTop Pro●Sheraton-II Pro
Cstm Strat Vntg Noiseless●Guild D-55
So Creek Cables●BOSS RC-1●RS7500
D'Addario Strings●Vari-Grip●Planet Lock Straps


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