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Post subject: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:47 pm
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Just checking if anyone has used Guitar Rig 5 on their laptop and then out to a Line 6 Pod Studio UX2 and then out to their IV on a clean channel. I know it has modelling built in and you can't bypass it, but maybe it would work on a nice clean channel.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:32 am
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Assuming that you want to use Guitar Rig and your Line6 gear for all modelling and effects, and just want to use your Mustang IV as a clean power amp, then you could use the aux-in or fx-return inputs on your Mustang to bypass all the DSP stages etc. These inputs are 'clean' and straight into the power amp. Also both are stereo so if your other equipment is outputting stereo, you can preserve that (although admittedly the stereo 'space' created by the Mustang IV's two speakers isn't fantastic, as the speakers aren't far enough apart).

On the other hand, what you're suggesting sounds quite a complex setup. Why not dispense with Guitar Rig and the Line6 stuff, and just use your Mustang as it was intended, for all your modelling and effects. (I'm genuinely curious, what sort of sounds do you want that the Mustang on its own can't create? I agree it doesn't do everything, but it does most things well enough to cover real-world needs, unless you need a particularly esoteric sound?)


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 11:13 am
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thanks for the reply, Guitar Rig has a lot more sounds that can add to the Mustang library, some presets that aren't available on the site. How would I use the fx-return inputs? Do I just run the link out from the Line6 into the port on the back and it would bypass the Mustang's modelling?


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 2:46 pm
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Quote:
Guitar Rig has a lot more sounds

Yes, precisely. I'm just genuinely curious (as I have never used Guitar Rig) what sort of different/unique sounds you can create with it that are completely unobtainable with the Mustang? Can you give a specific example of a (type of) sound you want to use that you haven't been able to create with the Mustang? Not saying you should use the Mustang rather than Guitar Rig in your case, just interested to compare the capabilities of the two.

Quote:
some presets that aren't available on the site

The FUSE library/website and its presets don't encompass everything the Mustang can do. It's perfectly easy to experiment and add your own presets. Just because someone else hasn't already made a preset for a certain sound, doesn't mean that sound doesn't exist in the Mustang. (also your wording implies you've checked/listened to every preset in the FUSE library - that's dedication!)

Quote:
How would I use the fx-return inputs? Do I just run the link out from the Line6 into the port on the back

Yes. You may have to adjust the Line6 output volume. Note the Mustang IV has separate TS jacks for the left and right channels, and you should connect both of these. If you only plug into one of them, you'll only get sound through one of the Mustang speakers.

Quote:
it would bypass the Mustang's modelling?

Yes, exactly as I said in my earlier reply.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:33 pm
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Thank you very much for the replies, your answers were exactly what I was asking. I really appreciate your help.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:53 am
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That brings me to a new question. What you recommend for an interface that has 2 lines out for stereo? I don't think the Line 6 I mentioned above has stereo outputs.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 8:34 am
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Quote:
I don't think the Line 6 I mentioned above has stereo outputs

I assumed you already had one of these, hence your original question. This comment makes me think you don't have one yet? In which case, to answer your question - yes it does have stereo outputs (as a quick look at the product page on the Line 6 website confirms). However, it begs the further question - what exactly is it you're trying to achieve here? Rather than just amassing lots of equipment and plugging it all together, what is your goal? If you're planning to use Guitar Rig for your modelling and effects, and the Mustang effectively as an active monitor, then you don't need the Pod Studio at all - just connect your PC's stereo audio out to the Mustang. Or do you want to use the Pod Studio as a mixer for other equipment too? Or are you using the Pod for its modelling, in which case what purpose is Guitar Rig serving?

If your goal is to have fun playing with lots of equipment, that's great and I genuinely hope it all works for you. But just for playing the guitar and creating a range of sounds and effects, it's starting to feel unnecessarily over-complicated.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 8:52 am
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scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
I don't think the Line 6 I mentioned above has stereo outputs

I assumed you already had one of these, hence your original question. This comment makes me think you don't have one yet? In which case, to answer your question - yes it does have stereo outputs (as a quick look at the product page on the Line 6 website confirms). However, it begs the further question - what exactly is it you're trying to achieve here? Rather than just amassing lots of equipment and plugging it all together, what is your goal? If you're planning to use Guitar Rig for your modelling and effects, and the Mustang effectively as an active monitor, then you don't need the Pod Studio at all - just connect your PC's stereo audio out to the Mustang. Or do you want to use the Pod Studio as a mixer for other equipment too? Or are you using the Pod for its modelling, in which case what purpose is Guitar Rig serving?

If your goal is to have fun playing with lots of equipment, that's great and I genuinely hope it all works for you. But just for playing the guitar and creating a range of sounds and effects, it's starting to feel unnecessarily over-complicated.


I'm not sure why you assumed I already had one, I didn't mention anything at all about owning one. It was just mentioned because it was one option. I don't know of many more interfaces like this that would work. That's why I asked my last question. I did look up some info, but it looked like it had one input, one output and one usb port. I may have missed something there.

The plan is light gigging gear, I don't want to carry a lot of gear. I was thinking having my laptop loaded with Guitar Rig 5 (it is definitely a great program if you've never used it before.) and then some kind of hard ware interface plugged in by USB to my laptop, and then my guitar plugged into that interface. For the output, that's where I'm stuck. As you suggested, I could plug stereo cables into the back of my Mustang IV via FX Send / Return. (I'm unclear as to which ports to use here, would I use send or return?) But I would need 2 stereo outputs on the interface for it to work. If I use the Mustang IV, I would need 2 cables, you said it would bypass the built in modelling and just use the signal from my laptop to the interface.

Or I could just go from laptop, to interface directly to a PA system with one cable output. It would depend on the venue's PA system though, sound quality wise. Totally eliminating the need for an amp.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 10:24 am
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Quote:
I'm not sure why you assumed I already had one

My mistake. If you've yet to go shopping, with Guitar Rig and the UX2 (or similar interface) being your key components, then buying a simple active monitor may suit your purposes better than the Mustang.

Quote:
light gigging gear

I guess we just have different points of view. For a simple gigging setup, I'd still suggest the Mustang on its own would cover everything.

For my education: is your plan to connect guitar to UX2, then have UX2 send guitar sound via USB to PC, have Guitar Rig process sound on PC and send back to UX2 via USB, then have UX2 output analogue audio?

Quote:
it looked like it had one input, one output

http://line6.com/podstudioux2/specifications.html

Looks like stereo outputs (two 1/4" sockets) to me. The spec says they're "balanced" which implies they're three-wire TRS connections. You'd need to convert to unbalanced to connect to the Mustang.

Quote:
I'm unclear as to which ports to use here, would I use send or return

Use the return sockets, as per earlier reply. The send sockets are an output from the amplifier (to send the audio to an external device), the return sockets are where that audio then returns into the amp for final amplification. In your case, don't connect anything to the send sockets because you aren't using the audio from the amp.

Quote:
directly to a PA system with one cable output

Yes, if you want mono and assuming your interface can mix-down the signal to mono. You could send a mono signal to the fx-return sockets on the Mustang IV using a splitter cable of course.

Quote:
It would depend on the venue's PA system

And also on whether their sound engineer wants you to go direct to the PA, versus micing your amp (and also whether the venue even has a PA - if it doesn't you'll still need your own amp). But if you're already playing only venues big enough to be guaranteed to have their own PAs, you probably know all this stuff far better than me anyway. What equipment have you been using thus far for your live performances?


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 7:20 pm
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You really know your stuff man, I will definitely say that. I may not go with the UX2, that was just a generic interface term I was trying to use. I also like the Lexicon Lambda, that looks more like what I am looking for.

You're right about the plan. I'd like to use whatever interface I finally decide on, then plug that by USB into my laptop with Guitar Rig 5 installed. GR5 will be my entire effects board and the hardware interface that's connected will be my I/O. I would have those 2 as my center piece, everything would build around them. The guitar will connect to the input on the interface and then my MIV would receive the stereo outputs, connected via FX Send as you suggested.

I understand when you say the MIV should suffice and be all I need, but in all honesty, I can't find a sound I like. I'm a metal / hard rock guy. I've been looking for an older Whitesnake sound, '87 era. I can't even get close to it. I've downloaded close to 200 user created presets, there are a lot of good ones, but nothing really hits me. I use my headphones a lot, so the speakers aren't the problem. Plus I also like the option of having more sounds at my fingertips including the MIV's sounds.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 1:47 pm
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Sounds like you already use Guitar Rig. Out of curiosity, what interface do you currently use for connecting your guitar to the PC?


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 3:35 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
Sounds like you already use Guitar Rig. Out of curiosity, what interface do you currently use for connecting your guitar to the PC?


I don't use it at all right now because I don't yet have an interface. I have it installed on my laptop though, just no way to connect to it. I will be picking up the Lexicon Lambda for sure though at the end of the month. I just like to be prepared in advance. You know, have all my ducks in a row. I've done a lot of research though, Google and Youtube are excellent teachers.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 1:13 am
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It seems to me the simplest and lightest setup would be to use a simple audio interface into your laptop and then out of the laptop via 3.5mm to dual 1/4 jacks into the house PA. Note that I said simplest and lightest...not the most dependable. Laptops are notorious for deciding to do operating system housekeeping duties at the worst times causing significant latency when you least want it. For a gigging musician dependability is always king. That's why in spite of all the fancy software advancements 99% of all gigging musicians still use hardware exclusively. Not to mention the effect of cigarette smoke, spilled beer, or stumbling drunks that can put an end to your night with a computer.

I'm kind of with Scott-UK on being astonished you can't find the metal tone you want on the Mustang. That's exactly the reason for the American '90s (which is modeling a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier) or Metal 2000 (which is modeling a Peavey 5150) is there for. Steve Vai used a Mesa/Boogie as his main power amp back in the day so that may be the best place to start. Rather than depend on presets you might want to just start with the basic American 90's and play with the settings including the Bias, SAG, and cabinets. I'd take the dependability of that arrangement any day over a laptop in a club environment.

Bear in mind the tone you hear out of Guitar Rig 5 through a pair of headsets will not likely be the tone that comes out of a house PA. Speakers and cabinets are going have an effect whether it's the PA or some other on-stage monitoring arrangement.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:22 am
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the reason for the interface is to connect the guitar to the laptop and get the lowest latency possible. I could buy a cable that's USB on one end and guitar port on the other, to get a direct connection from the guitar to the laptop. But I would probably get tons of latency. And then a left and right channel output to my speakers for stereo sound. Fortunately, I was able to pick up this Mustang IV in mint condition for $250, there was no way I was going to pass it up.

I would run a dedicated laptop on Win 8.1 with only GR 5 installed and nothing else, the sole purpose for the laptop would be to run GR 5 and nothing else. No browsers or antivirus or even internet connectivity. It would basically would act like a completely digital pedal board.

As far as the amp goes, I may be getting tone deaf in my old age (43), but it seems like the amp has one sound. Yes, there are hundreds of variations of that sound, but it still sounds like it's the same sound. You mentioned it models after a Mesa and a Peavey, I would like to compare them to see how close they actually get. I've used 2 completely different guitars and I still get the same sound. The sound is kind of whiney. That's the best way I could describe it. If you come close to a preset that sounds even as close to as possible to Whitesnake's Still of the Night, I would appreciate it. When you do find a close preset, play the actual song and see how close it is. That's the kind of problem I'm having. I've heard 3 GR 5 presets that almost nail it.

Now, I'm not saying I'm going to cut out using the MIV's banks completely, there are a couple presets I am planing on switching to as needed.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Rig 5 with Mustang IV
Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:43 pm
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Quote:
the reason for the interface is to connect the guitar to the laptop and get the lowest latency possible. I could buy a cable that's USB on one end and guitar port on the other, to get a direct connection from the guitar to the laptop. But I would probably get tons of latency

Umm, a cable with a USB on one end and guitar port on the other is exactly the same as an "interface" product, at least in terms of processing of the audio signal ie conversion from analogue to digital). You won't see any difference in latency between these. The latency is introduced by the PC, specifically the driver stack that takes the raw USB signal and makes it available to your software (in this case Guitar Rig). Better drivers will reduce latency - and it could be that a higher-end interface product is supplied with better drivers. Also an ASIO driver will have less latency than a Windows driver, because it bypasses the rest of the Windows driver stack.

Quote:
run a dedicated laptop ... (etc)

You still have the issues mentioned in the previous post. You don't need to have other applications installed or running. Just the sheer amount of "stuff" that Windows carries around with it will cause occasional glitches with real-time software such as audio processing.

Quote:
it seems like the amp has one sound

This surprises me. It most definitely has a very wide range of sounds. Ignoring all the effects, just changing the amp model makes a very noticeable difference. If all the amp models sound the same to you, there is perhaps a problem with your amp.

I agree with dunedindragon that, for a reliable gigging setup, leave the PC at home. If you really can't get the sound you want from the Mustang, and you want to go the modelling route (rather than eg just buying a real Mesa, Peavey, etc, that has the sound you want), then look at a dedicated modelling unit. Just an opinion.

If you've heard Guitar Rig presets that have the sound you want, bear in mind that the majority of that sound is the guitarist and other processing of the recording. Guitar Rig is only part of it, it isn't a panacea. But if it's what works for you, then have fun and I wish you every success!


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