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Post subject: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:48 am
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A few years back I tried a Mustang III v1.0 on approval that sounded good but at that time there were 'fizz' issues.

My wife wants me to get something that I'd be happy to play headphones through and I need something light, portable, reliable & versatile. Our other guitarist in the band has a Mustang III v2 (in a nice red tolex) and the weight of my valve amps and having to bring a pedal board is getting me down. I also have a Vox Tonelab LE and a Vox Valvetronix AD120VTX.

The TLLE, whilst older tech, is still a pretty decent MFX unit that's easy to use live but (i) the headphone out sounds terrible (I have good headphones - Bose) and (ii) whilst it does rock/crunch tones really well, I'm struggling to get good clean vibrant/rich Fender tones from it as it distorts far too early.

the AD120VTX sounds great, is brilliant for bigger gigs, but the headphone tone is still 'meh', and it's just too big and heavy to schlapp out to rehearsals (the VC12 controller is big and heavy too).

So, I need something portable, that still sounds great, is loud and versatile, sounds great with headphones and 'live', does good classic rock & blues tones (think Led Zep, AC/DC, Thin Lizzy, ZZ Top, Clapton, Gary Moore, BB King, Albert King, Albert Collins etc) but also nice clean Fender tones. I need to go play one again and hear it through headphones myself but I'm not near a store that stocks them. So before I travel out to try one, I thought you Mustang III v2 users could help & answer a few queries for me:

1. Does it have a good sound through headphones that still makes you want to pick up your guitar and play it, or is the headphone tone 'meh'?
2. Has the fizz problem been fixed in v2?
3. Are there any current issues or quirks with the amp from a gigging or home use perspective?
4. I intend to get the 4-button pedal to use with the 2-button (ie 6 button set-up). I want to be able to scroll up/down through patch banks and then go into individual patches as 'stomp-box' mode to switch pedal, delay, reverb, modulation on/off independently. I also want to go into the tuner in any mode. Will I be able to do this using both pedals without having to go back to the amp controls?
5. 100w solidstate will never be as loud as 100w valve, but would it still be at least as loud as say a 50w Marshall valve combo?

Many thanks in advance

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:10 pm
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1. Yes the headphone sound is good. But note it is different to the sound through the speakers - mainly just EQ differences. So you may need to adjust your settings for headphones vs speakers, but in terms of overall quality and achieving good sounds, the headphones are fine. Some people create two sets of near-identical presets, just tweaking one set to sound right through the speaker, and the other to sound right with headphones.

2. There is no fizz with V2 amps (and it was only ever a serious problem for a subset of people on some amps. There are many V1 owners who are completely happy with their amps; the problem is either not present or very small or only relevant to settings those owners don't use. Unless you personally experienced the issue to an unacceptable level, on the specific amp you had and the particular settings you were going to use a lot, it shouldn't have put you off getting a Mustang).

3. There are no particular issues that I recall seeing in this forum. A few "characteristics" (rather than problems) with the amp that may be relevant to you: Occasionally people say the USB (digital) audio output sounds a bit sterile compared to mic'ing the amp for recording, while others are completely happy with the USB sound. There are a couple of minor settings you can only change with FUSE, not on the amp. Some people would like the amp to support more than four effects, or at least to allow any set of four effects to be used (rather than just one-from-each-group). If you get the EXP-1 to use as a volume pedal, you can't configure where it appears in the signal chain (but it also has an 'expression' mode that is much more configurable). The amp's own fx-loop always comes after all the built-in effects, you can't change this (the only thing you can change is whether or not the cab emulation comes before or after the loop). Related to that, the cab emulations are tuned differently for the amp's own speaker output vs headphones etc, which doesn't seem to work well for some people. Personally, none of these are reasons not to get the amp. I include for completeness.

4. Yes you can do this with just the footswitches. You can use the 2-button footswitch to change preset (move up and down through the 100 available presets), and the 4-button to turn stomp etc on and off within the current preset. The 4-button also gives you the tuner. You talk about "banks" of presets - not sure what you mean here, the Mustang doesn't really have the concept of banks or groups of presets. You can use the 4-button switch to jump through the presets 10 at a time rather than one at a time, if that's what you mean. You can also use the 4-button footswitch to jump to any three pre-defined presets, then use the 2-button to move up/down from those. But these last couple require you to change the footswitch mode (which again, you can do on the footswitch itself), so there's a bit more toe-tapping to do this then get back to your desired stomp on/off usage. But it's all perfectly possible and doable.

5. Comparing power outputs is largely meaningless, even between two amps of the same type; power output doesn't equate to volume. I haven't personally gigged with a Mustang (100w), there are plenty of people here who do though, very successfully. It's loud enough for any venue that you'd expect a one-speaker combo amp to be able to cover. If you think you'll need more than that, there's always the two-speaker 150w Mustang 4. Beyond that you may struggle to cover both "light and portable" and "bigger gigs" with a single amp. You mention the other guitarist in your band already has a Mustang 3, so you can assess whether the volume is loud enough for you from that?


Last edited by scott-uk on Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:28 am
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One "quirk" relating to volume is probably worth mentioning. The various amp models respond a bit differently to the channel volume setting. By channel volume I'm referring to the volume on each amp model, NOT the master volume.

For example, the Princeton amp model will not sound as loud with the channel volume set at 5 as will the Marshall or Orange amp models. I assume this may be because Fender was trying to capture the relative differences in the way each of these amps respond in real life to changes in their volume settings. It's no major deal as you just need to adjust them appropriately and individually on each preset so that going from one preset to the other won't cause a major jump in volume. You will definately experience this when you play a stock Mustang and move through the factory presets. A lot of us don't bother with the factory presets and just create our own that match our needs.

I'm with ScottUK on the whole "sufficient volume" question about the Mustang III. In our band the rhythm guitar player uses a Mustang III (with the same red tolex you mentioned) and I use a Mustang IV. Regardless of the venue our amps pretty much stay at the same master volume settings even in rehearsal. The Mustang III stays at 3 and the Mustang IV at just below 3 1/2. Regardless of the venue that's enough volume for us to hear each other and blend appropriately with the rest of the band. In smaller venues that's all we need without going through the PA. In larger venues we simply mic the amps (and DI the bass). We cover pretty much the same styles of music you're referring to and have never had any problems having sufficient volume and blending appropriately on stage. Of course the big unknown is always the drummer. In our case we use an electronic kit that's plugged into his own powered monitor so that gives us a much more precise control over the stage mix. With an acoustic drum set naturally you mileage may vary.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:07 am
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I would look to your bandmate's III to decide if it will meet your live needs, but if not, the little Mustang I will be just as decent as a III for headphones (other than control knobs and buttons). The line level out and headphone output from the III doesn't quite match the sound from the amp by itself, but I don't know exactly how you compare the two since you have cabinet and room harmonics when you play through the amp that you do not have with the line out. I love my III FWIW.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:08 am
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as an owner of two Mustang V1 amps (a III and a IV) I can only offer a few points of reference.

the III is a lot easier to move, but the IV really isn't that bad. (Compared to lugging around a 65/70 lb tube combo, it's a breeze)

I have never heard, nor able to reproduce the "FIZZ" (and I went looking for it) maybe I just never heard it, Like Scott says,, some people went out of their minds with it, while for others it was just a non issue.

It's gone in the V2 amps.


Regarding volume of the III verses the IV, the III will hold it's own in a band with an acoustic drummer as long as he's not a real heavy handed player. I've used both (III and IV) in a few different situations. I like the added coverage the IV gives me, but the III can punch through just fine in most situations I've worked in.

The 6 button config will allow you a bit more flexibility, you'll have to sort out which options work best for you, but it will require that you really get to know that setup, otherwise, you could find your self tap dancing around to get to the right mode. In reality, I've found that about 4 or 5 well edited presets can probably cover a lot of territory.

I don't think there is an Up/Down bank option tho... So you would use your Quick Access presets as your anchor points, then use "up/down" buttons from there.

I will also add that I've resolved my best presets two two basic groups. One for Single Coil guitars where the top end has been tamed a it, and one for humbuckers where the top end can be dialed in a bit more to add some sparkle.

This is all stuff you'll sort out once you get used to the amp and what is really going to work for you.

Great amps tho.. Lots of good sounds and usable features. You'll probably want to ditch about half the presets. Just go to the last 15 presets.. look for the presets that have "Basic" as part of the name. Those are the raw amp models, where you can base your own presets from. Many of the presets are just not sounds you'd probably ever have a use for.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:42 am
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I'll Echo all of the above - without wanting to sound like a fan boy. But I regularly gig mine in both large and small venues.

We always mic up for a better spread of sound. But even when Mic'd up I always feel that in the close to middle ground its your amp itself that fills out a lot of volume. The PA speakers simple throw the sound further back. The Mustang III is plenty loud enough IMHO mic'd or unmic'd.

I note you have been using Valve amps - yep carting them around can suck. Truthfully of course you are going to note a difference in 'presence' and cut between valve and modelling technology. I don't think the Mustang is a silver bullet - but its not bad IMHO. First time I saw one being used live I was very impressed with the crunch sound the guy was getting - something that modellers have not been very good at. I order one the next day!

I think its horses for courses really I always home practice and reherse with the MIII but truthfully don't use the MIII for every gig but if I had to it would be no biggy. If we have never played a venue before very often I will take the MIII as the default simply because I don't know what space we have plus its easyier to control the volume levels and deal with the venue accoustics.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:45 pm
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81LesPaul wrote:
I think its horses for courses really
ha! funny! Horses for courses .... Mustangs.... get it?

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:09 am
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Thanks for responses guys, very helpful.

I remember now that one of the reasons I didn't buy the v1 Mustang III was because it had no external speaker out. I don't understand why Fender didn't include this because it would make the amp so much more versatile if you were able to connect it to a 2 x12 or 4 x 12 cab. The beauty of the III is that you get a lot of punch from a lightweight 1x12 amp, but there are times when a bigger sound is needed and there's a cab you can use at the rehearsal rooms/venue. I think it's a bad omission from Fender because it's so easy & cheap to add.

And whilst I appreciate this is a Fender amp with emphasis on fender amps, I would still have liked to see a couple of other Marshall models there eg JCM900, JCM2000, Plexi etc. Perhaps some extra models will be expanded in a later upgrade, but if they bring out a v3 I hope this time they add the extn cab out.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:06 am
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Adding a "speaker out" is an easy diy mod that has been discussed before on this forum, and I think a few people have done. All you do is fit a switching jack socket that takes the wires from the internal speaker, and cuts-off that speaker when the external cab is connected. As long as the external cab has the correct impedance and at least 100w power rating, it will work fine.

As for additional amp models: the Mustangs cover a broad spectrum; I don't think anyone could complain there aren't enough amp models, particularly at these amps' price-point. Perhaps there aren't exactly the set of models that everyone would want, but it would be impossible for Fender to provide an amp with everybody's perfect set of models. I think the amp models Fender has chosen cover the overall tonal palette very well, and the range of settings allow just about any sound to be reproduced.

The Mustang is still the most versatile modelling amp out there today, and it still sounds like it meets all your stated criteria (versatile, headphones, etc). Have you found something else that does all those things, and provides the additional Marshall models you want too? It would be great to know about it if you have. Or, you may have to accept there is no perfect product and decide if the Mustang meets enough of your needs.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:08 am
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Rockcat wrote:
I remember now that one of the reasons I didn't buy the v1 Mustang III was because it had no external speaker out. I don't understand why Fender didn't include this because it would make the amp so much more versatile if you were able to connect it to a 2 x12 or 4 x 12 cab.

I can totally see how that would be useful on my Mustang III, but I think the approach Fender took was to provide several versions of the same thing so you can select the feature set that makes sense for you without buying a whole bunch of other features you don't need. So if you want to be able to have external speakers, you're looking at a Mustang V.
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If you don't mind having an external power amp, what you can do is take the output from the FX Send on your Mustang III and plug it into an external power amp. Then attach your external speakers to the power amp.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:03 pm
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Thanks guys - I think the amp model range is very heavily geared to Fender amp models - all I'm saying is that it could do with another couple of Marshalls. I realise that's arguably where the Mustangs are aimed at from Fender's perspective but there's only 2 Marshall's in it which is a bit light.

Regarding the speaker out, it's a stupid omission because it is so easy to do at the factory & would have cost flumpence ha'pny extra to do. Trouble is a mod would invalidate the warranty - and owners shouldn't have to do a common sense mod that should have come stock. Fender's not the only manufacturer who penny pinches here - Vox do the same on the current Valvetronix range. The Valvetronix certainly have a much wider range of amp models, pedals & effects - but the latest Valvetronix amps only give 8 memory slots, & Vox/Korg pad it out with tons of factory presets that can't be permanently changed. Also, they don't have patch naming, or as good a floor control (the 4 button & 2 button work nicely together), or the parameter options, speaker cab options, USB connectivity/upgrade/connectivity.

If you could combine the Mustang & Valvetronix features, & add an extn out, you'd likely dominate the market.

I have a Blue AD120VTX with VC12 controller & AD212 cab - superb amp/rig, just too big/heavy now so I only use it at home or for bigger gigs where it's worth schlapping out.

The Mustang III v2 is pretty much ideal - I'l think about the MV. I suspect Fender will add some non-Fender amps as time goes on, so that's not a deal breaker - but the lack of extn cab out is a pain. I might go for a used MIII v2 where the warranty becomes irrelevant (& I'd do the mod) as it's non transferable and even new in UK it's only 2 yrs not 5 yrs as in the US.

Lack of space in my small den is something I'll have to figure out to make room for a MIIIv2 or MV. I already have 5 combo amps, 2 cabs, a Vox TLLE & TLST, VC12 controller, conventional pedal board, Vox Mini3 and 8 guitars (I have a 9th downstairs behind the sofa as I've no room for it in my den). I don't want to sell anything (everything gets used - except the pure mint/new unused 2004 50th American Deluxe Strat behind the sofa, bought as an investment!) - hmmm - maybe I can sell one of the kids & have their room! Anyone wanta buy a stroppy teenager? :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:17 am
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Rockcat wrote:
Thanks guys - I think the amp model range is very heavily geared to Fender amp models

Well, surprise.

Quote:
Regarding the speaker out, it's a stupid omission because it is so easy to do at the factory & would have cost flumpence ha'pny extra to do.

It makes sense if you look at the whole range, not just a single model. Otherwise they could just do the MV and be done with it.
I would agree with you if there was no option at all to get a speaker out. But there is, you just have to choose the right model. And I would guess at least 90% of the people who buy a combo amp don't need a speaker out.

Quote:
I already have 5 combo amps, 2 cabs, a Vox TLLE & TLST, VC12 controller, conventional pedal board, Vox Mini3 and 8 guitars (I have a 9th downstairs behind the sofa as I've no room for it in my den).
So get a MV and plug it into one of your cabs.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III v2 questions (prospective buyer)
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:08 am
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At 26.5 x 10.8 x 10.5 inches the MV is a fair old size (... although if you look inside you could cut it down to half, easily) but weight at 27lbs is light. My AD212 is 43lbs but I have a lighter 1x12 Laney cab too that has a Celestion seventy/eighty rated at 80w so I can probably get all the volume I need with one 75w channel of the MV anyway. Another plus is that it comes with the 4-button footswitch, whereas the MIII only comes with the 2-button. And at 2x75w stereo it gives me stereo options with two cabs that could be fun. So, maybe it is the way to go.

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