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Post subject: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:03 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I've been recording my guitar tracks directly from my MIII. The results seem very *bright* and less rich than the actual sound coming from the amp. I've gotten better results using the head phone jack than the line out jacks on the back. I was wondering how to get a richer sound from these jacks that better mimics the harmonics of the speaker/enclosure. Any thoughts? The reason I want to get direct out is because it allows me to record in less than ideal conditions -- a mic'ed amp might pick up unpleasant background noise.

Thanks!

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:51 pm
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Unfortunately some of that richness you're looking for comes from the ambient sound produced by the cabinet and speaker. It's hard to reproduce the effect of a decent, well placed mic on a guitar cabinet. That's why it's still used so commonly. I record this way all the time and rarely have any problems with unwanted outside noise in the recordings. Of course I do make sure I put my phone in airplane mode and don't have a TV running in the background...LOL

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:27 pm
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I have two teenage sons in the house... just keeping them out of my room while I'm recording is hit or miss! I guess I should think about adding a Sennheiser e609 (or SM57) down the road. Also, I'll be giving up the stereo tape effect (which I really like) from the amp going this route. I haven't played around with different cabinet settings in the amp, anyone have suggestions? Thanks!

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:02 pm
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I have similar issue with a household prone to ambient noise. Try low settings on a couple of the reverb models. I usually do not use reverb, but it can soften things up. I found my Mustang recordings using USB as well as recently using GarageBand with iRig HD on my iPad are better than my old battles with ambient noise for mic'ed recordings.

Are you using Ableton for your recording? You can add reverb when you remix.

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:20 am
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Can you use the Amp's tone controls so it sounds right when recording (but then probably too muffled through the amp's speaker)? Then you could have two sets of presets, one for recording (EQ'd suitably) and one for playing.
That's what I do, one for playing with headphones and one for playing loud.


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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:42 am
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Thanks! As a quick and dirty workaround, I've just tweak the tone on my guitar a bit, but I was hoping something in the modeling could get the output to better model the acoustics of the physical cabinet/speaker.

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:45 am
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mh2000 wrote:
I have two teenage sons in the house

Archtop Bill wrote:
I have similar issue with a household prone to ambient noise

Completely off-topic, it just amused me that "teenage sons" are equivalent to "ambient noise" :D


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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:48 am
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scott-uk wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
I have two teenage sons in the house

Archtop Bill wrote:
I have similar issue with a household prone to ambient noise

Completely off-topic, it just amused me that "teenage sons" are equivalent to "ambient noise" :D


Hahaha! I think there is a natural drive to make yourself heard when you are young, male and O.D.ing on testosterone! I bought my youngest a Squire Strat and hoped he would put some of this into music... but he wastes most his time playing online games.

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:59 am
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I'm curious - have you tried recording from the USB interface? I know, most folks say exactly the same thing about the USB as you are saying about the output jacks, but it is another option to try. My experience has been that the USB sounds great for clean tones, but a bit bright for over-driven tones. I usually mic the speaker for the latter. See some of my posts elsewhere on this board for examples of the USB recording tone.

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:57 pm
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JosephREllis wrote:
I'm curious - have you tried recording from the USB interface? I know, most folks say exactly the same thing about the USB as you are saying about the output jacks, but it is another option to try. My experience has been that the USB sounds great for clean tones, but a bit bright for over-driven tones. I usually mic the speaker for the latter. See some of my posts elsewhere on this board for examples of the USB recording tone.


Thanks! I'm only recording directly to my little Tascam now and doing my overdubbing of voice in there. My computer is pretty mediocre with no special soundcard so I think the sound won't be as good (right?). I could record to computer and then transfer to the Tascam for voice over. I do really simple spoken word over guitar stuff.

Here's a link to a recent recording I've done if you're interested:

https://markhahnguitar.wordpress.com/20 ... sses-v2-0/

Thanks!

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:16 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
JosephREllis wrote:
I'm curious - have you tried recording from the USB interface? I know, most folks say exactly the same thing about the USB as you are saying about the output jacks, but it is another option to try. My experience has been that the USB sounds great for clean tones, but a bit bright for over-driven tones. I usually mic the speaker for the latter. See some of my posts elsewhere on this board for examples of the USB recording tone.


Thanks! I'm only recording directly to my little Tascam now and doing my overdubbing of voice in there. My computer is pretty mediocre with no special soundcard so I think the sound won't be as good (right?). I could record to computer and then transfer to the Tascam for voice over. I do really simple spoken word over guitar stuff.

Here's a link to a recent recording I've done if you're interested:

https://markhahnguitar.wordpress.com/20 ... sses-v2-0/

Thanks!

If you use USB, your sound card is immaterial, since it is recording through the USB interface, not your card. I use a very cheap laptop with whatever built-in card it has. It is so cheap, it only has 1 internal speaker, but since it's a laptop, the speakers don't matter. I plug some monitors into its headphone jack when I'm recording, anyway. I do my mixing on a desktop computer in my home office, where my best monitor speakers are connected.

I use some TASCAM stuff, too - mostly when I'm recording my Martin, although I've plugged the Mustang III into the line-in jacks on the TASCAM on occasion. It isn't stereo, then, since the Mustang III line out is mono. My best results have been when I use USB, however, and I've seen some other great examples posted in these forums that were USB. I like the TASCAM, but can't stand using it for doing the final mix. The Pocketstudio I use takes forever to mix and has no effects. I always import the final tracks into my desktop PC's DAW software for the final mixing.

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:39 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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JosephREllis wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
JosephREllis wrote:
I'm curious - have you tried recording from the USB interface? I know, most folks say exactly the same thing about the USB as you are saying about the output jacks, but it is another option to try. My experience has been that the USB sounds great for clean tones, but a bit bright for over-driven tones. I usually mic the speaker for the latter. See some of my posts elsewhere on this board for examples of the USB recording tone.


Thanks! I'm only recording directly to my little Tascam now and doing my overdubbing of voice in there. My computer is pretty mediocre with no special soundcard so I think the sound won't be as good (right?). I could record to computer and then transfer to the Tascam for voice over. I do really simple spoken word over guitar stuff.

Here's a link to a recent recording I've done if you're interested:

https://markhahnguitar.wordpress.com/20 ... sses-v2-0/

Thanks!

If you use USB, your sound card is immaterial, since it is recording through the USB interface, not your card. I use a very cheap laptop with whatever built-in card it has. It is so cheap, it only has 1 internal speaker, but since it's a laptop, the speakers don't matter. I plug some monitors into its headphone jack when I'm recording, anyway. I do my mixing on a desktop computer in my home office, where my best monitor speakers are connected.

I use some TASCAM stuff, too - mostly when I'm recording my Martin, although I've plugged the Mustang III into the line-in jacks on the TASCAM on occasion. It isn't stereo, then, since the Mustang III line out is mono. My best results have been when I use USB, however, and I've seen some other great examples posted in these forums that were USB. I like the TASCAM, but can't stand using it for doing the final mix. The Pocketstudio I use takes forever to mix and has no effects. I always import the final tracks into my desktop PC's DAW software for the final mixing.


Thanks! I'll give it a try. Actually, when you use a stereo effect on Mustang III the dual XLR out or headphone out are stereo. I am an visual artist/writer and not a musician who was first given a guitar last year... just creative fun, but some people like my musical stuff for what it is.

I got the little DR-07mk2 on a whim because it was only $80 on "Cyber Monday." Wished I would have bought the Tascam DP-008EX instead, but I was looking for USB interfaces and just got the handheld to rough out stuff... and it's good for that.

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:04 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
Thanks! I'll give it a try. Actually, when you use a stereo effect on Mustang III the dual XLR out or headphone out are stereo. I am an visual artist/writer and not a musician who was first given a guitar last year... just creative fun, but some people like my musical stuff for what it is.

I got the little DR-07mk2 on a whim because it was only $80 on "Cyber Monday." Wished I would have bought the Tascam DP-008EX instead, but I was looking for USB interfaces and just got the handheld to rough out stuff... and it's good for that.

Ah, I have the Mustang III v1. No XLR jacks on that version - just 1/4" mono effects in/out jacks. I have a similar portable TASCAM recorder, but I think it is an older model. I still sometimes toss it in front of the amp just to capture a song idea, but I use the DP-006 Pocketstudio more often. It has good internal mics for recording acoustic and 1/4" line in jacks for recording off the Mustang if I'm in a hurry and don't want to fire up my laptop. I've also used its internal mics to record the Mustang's speaker, as well as my bass amp's speaker. The USB recordings still sound a little better, however, so I usually try to take the time to use that method for any of my electric guitar recordings. You can see my gear here:
http://josephrellis.com/?page_id=88

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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 10:33 pm
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Since you are also a vocalist, do you happen to have a microphone tube preamp laying around? I use one between my guitar and modeling amp and it makes a huge difference. A lot closer to a real tube amp tone. Much richer, warmer, and fuller. That richness should carry over to the recording too. Just start off with the gain real low, turn it up slowly while turning down the "digital tubes" of the Mustang if needed till you find that sweet spot.
If you don't have one, they are cheap and will also make your vocals sound better when you lay them on top of the track.


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Post subject: Re: richer direct recordings?
Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:21 am
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fenderfan wrote:
Since you are also a vocalist, do you happen to have a microphone tube preamp laying around? I use one between my guitar and modeling amp and it makes a huge difference. A lot closer to a real tube amp tone. Much richer, warmer, and fuller. That richness should carry over to the recording too. Just start off with the gain real low, turn it up slowly while turning down the "digital tubes" of the Mustang if needed till you find that sweet spot.
If you don't have one, they are cheap and will also make your vocals sound better when you lay them on top of the track.


Hahaha! I would hardly consider myself a "vocalist!!!" :)

My daughter (whose opinion I trust) recently told me that I, "can't play guitar very well and my vocals suck, but once you get past that, that my songs are really fantastic -- sometimes 'scary beautiful.'" A real musician friend of mine kind of mirrored this saying, "I love your songs, if they were performed and sung by someone else they'd be great!" Anyway, I'm just an visual artist/writer playing around with songwriting and really enjoying it!

I'll look into a little tube pre-amp. Looks interesting and not that much money. Seriously, my entire "studio" consists of a Sennheisser e385 mic and Tascam DR-07MKII handheld, so if I get serious, I'm going to need a whole lot better equipment.

Do you have a suggestion for cheap tube pre-amp?

Thanks for the help!

I like recording my vocals while parked in a dark alley, so I want to stay portable.

Just did this song over the weekend:

[youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7w-EhJ3P2s[/youtube]

:)

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