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Post subject: Sound coloring
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:42 am
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Ok with the set up of amp send to mustang floor input and amp return to mfloor left out, I turn off the amp sim should my amps sound not be colored? Is there any other eq other then the amp sim? Thank you very much for the info


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Post subject: Re: Sound coloring
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:51 am
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Quote:
Is there any other eq other than the amp sim?

Yes, and intentionally so. Read the section on Output Voicing and Bass/Treble output settings in your Mustang Floor Advanced Manual (pages 7 and 8, at least in the version I have).


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Post subject: Re: Sound coloring
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:20 pm
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The output voicing seems to only work when the amp sim is on, the problem I'm having is, I can turn off all the effects and amp then while playing my guitar switching the loop on and off its a completely different sound. Is there a way to use the mfloor just for effects with out changing the tone of my amp? Any suggestions? Or has this been a problem with anyone else?


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Post subject: Re: Sound coloring
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:52 am
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Quote:
The output voicing seems to only work when the amp sim is on

First, what makes you think that? As in, what tests have you done to demonstrate this is the case? Not a facetious question, genuinely interested to understand this. If the output voicing is inactive, then it's very odd why the M-Floor is changing your tone. If you have the amp model turned off, and you change the output voicing setting on the M-Floor, you're saying this has no effect on the sound?

Second, if you are correct, then rather than turn off the amp model, you could select the "studio" amp, which is a straight-through pre-amp. That should not give any sound colouration. You can then tweak the output voicing to suit.

Another experiment: remove the M-Floor from the circuit: connect a (short) patch lead directly between your amp's fx-send and fx-return. Then try turning your amp's loop on and off (your previous post implies your amp has a control for this?) while playing. Do you still notice a change in sound? If so, this is the circuitry within your amp, not the Mustang Floor.


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Post subject: Re: Sound coloring
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:16 am
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wow, it took me 10 minutes to ge able to log back in here...

regarding output voicing, you need an amp emulation active AND a cabinet emulation active for it to work, according to the fender floor friendly manual, page 7

"The voicing options are active only
when the Amp settings are active (not bypassed) and a speaker
cabinet is selected within the Amp settings (see Amplifier Menus,
page 4). While the PHONES jack is used, output voicing is internally
set to "PA System" for all analog outputs (UNBALANCED, XLR
and PHONES, but not USB) and the settings selected in the voicing
menus are temporarily ignored."

regarding general coloring by the floor, even with everything disengaged: there will be some minimal tone sucking comparing the floor with everything disengaged compared to a cable, not sure if this is what you are talking about. Even with perfectly flat response electronics (which they are not) simple impedance mismatches between floor out and you amp in will kill some of the high end.

If you want to totally bypass the floor (or any other active electronics for that matter) you should try a combination of A/B/Y switches to avoid the tone sucking


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Post subject: Re: Sound coloring
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:00 am
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Quote:
regarding output voicing, you need an amp emulation active AND a cabinet emulation active for it to work

Ahh, well spotted, I'd overlooked that part of the manual. I find that slightly odd - surely one would always want the M-Floor output configured to suit the device it's connected to, regardless of which set of effects/features/amp-models are being used at any particular point in time? What about if one switches between presets during live playing, some of which use cab emulation and some don't? That's going to really screw things up (or at least, have more of an effect on the sound than just the change in cab emulation would be expected to).

Does this just apply to the output voicing, or to the global bass/treble settings (as set on the UTIL menu, rather than on the amp model) too? If those bass/treble settings are still active, that could explain the OP's issue. Maybe try adjusting those?


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Post subject: Re: Sound coloring
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:24 pm
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voicing does not change from one preset to the other, is a global setting (together with bass/treble voicing controls), but it only applies when cabinet emulation is also enabled.

My guess is that, given that cab emulation is just a parametric eq setting, and amp voicing is also just a simpler parametric eq setting, they are done at the same time, by the same DSP code.

In other words, amp voicing just adds or substracts some dbs here and there to an already applied cab emulation.

IMO amp voicing does not make sense without an amp emulation enabled, i'm okay with that. In the other hand amp voicing should work even without cab emulation active.

Moreover, I would love Fender adding a fully configurable post amp parametric EQ effect instead of the voicing thing, particularly because with voicing setting you can't enhance mids, which is what I would normally do with a parametric eq effect


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Post subject: Re: Sound coloring
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:31 am
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Quote:
voicing does not change from one preset to the other, is a global setting (together with bass/treble voicing controls)

Yes, I realise that. But my point was:

Quote:
it only applies when cabinet emulation is also enabled

Precisely. Although it's a global setting, it doesn't apply globally. It gets turned on or off depending on per-preset settings. So in practice, the output voicing can/does change (in the sense of being on or off, not suggesting its value changes) from preset to preset.

Yes, I'd realised the practical reasons for this (it's implemented in the same part of the DSP as cab emulation and other EQ). It just surprised me, that's all. Something Fender obviously meant to be a global setting (and which intuitively should work the same way regardless of preset) has been implemented in a way that means it isn't.

Quote:
a fully configurable post amp parametric EQ effect instead of the voicing thing

Definitely a useful idea, although perhaps not top-of-the-list for desired M-Floor enhancements. Personally I think the "voicing thing" is useful in that it provides pre-canned EQ settings for identifiable configurations (eg connecting to a combo amp vs a FRFR PA), to save the user having to know what EQ values are likely to be best for each situation.

Also, because the M-Floor outputs are line-level, it's easy enough to add a dedicated EQ box in between the M-Floor's output and the next item (mixing desk, combo amp, whatever) in the signal chain. I realise that's a workaround rather than a solution, but if there is limited DSP power (and limited R&D $$$ and time at Fender!), I can think of many other enhancements to the M-Floor I'd rather have inside the box. I realise everyone has different priorities and wish-lists on this, just an opinion.


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