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Post subject: I Wish we had finer control of Sag
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:25 pm
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Hobbyist
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:19 pm
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I am really loving my new Mustang III.
However, the Sag control frustrates me.
I usually want a bit more than the Match setting...
But "More" is too much!
I wish we had a -5 to +5 scale, where Less, Match, and More are -4,0,+4.

Any chance that could be added in an update???


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Post subject: Re: I Wish we had finer control of Sag
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:17 am
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Professional Musician
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
Personally I never touch the Sag control. On a real valve amp, Sag isn't something you can adjust - it's just a facet of the way the amp is built (and in particular the type of rectifier in its power supply). So Fender are already adding an extra control to the modelled version of the valve amp, allowing you to do more than the original amp. If the Sag control weren't there, no-one would have any reason to object. It shouldn't be used as one of the primary controls for adjusting your sound. But it's an interesting facet of the human psyche that as soon as a control is there, we want to be able to do more with it.

The practical upshot of the Sag effect on a valve amp is to add Compression to the sound. If you want more control of this than you can obtain from the Sag control, maybe adding a Compressor effect would help you achieve the sound you'd like?


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Post subject: Re: I Wish we had finer control of Sag
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:26 am
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:08 am
Posts: 172
I agree with Radar.
If you expose a control, why not give a decent amount of control.
I would love to have a few more options on the sag.
With the MF you have to pick either overdrive OR compressor, so the added control would be a real boon!

scott-uk wrote:
But it's an interesting facet of the human psyche that as soon as a control is there, we want to be able to do more with it.

This is a VERY good thing. It is why we have Hendrix, Gilmore and EJ, and all the other innovators who have left their mark on the music world and made it easier for us today to achieve the tones we want.

Or so says I anyway... YMMV :wink:


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Post subject: Re: I Wish we had finer control of Sag
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:08 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:53 pm
Posts: 972
I agree too, but in the grand scheme of all things mustang it rates fairly low on my list. I would like to see greater EQ control, especially in the high end and being able to boost/cut the frequency of choice. There are models i wish had less mids or more presence but the current controls don't go there. I believe the reasoning by fender is probably that if you take them too far you take a given model to a point where it no longer sounds like that amp. But if each preset had a end of chain EQ, be it a graphic or maybe even better a parametric, it might be a huge benefit.

That said, I think a LOT of thought by fender went into this amp and i believe there are reasons they did or didn't do certain things. And over time i have come to see that where before i thought they should have done something different. But i DO have my list of wishes. But I will remain happy as a pig in ____ over the stang regardless.


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Post subject: Re: I Wish we had finer control of Sag
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:11 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Yes, to have more sag control value settings would be very good: particularly i have to return to the issue of the British Watts model. As you know in that model the sag control doesn't have effect on the signal at all. Try to believe.
The sag parameter on Native Instr. Guitar Rig 5 for a similar model (high white) have more or less noticeable effects on the signal depending what is the starting default value of the 2 typical presets: clean and crunch. As the clean preset has a default value of sag = 0.00 out of 10 (ok, there is an even excessive fine settings) that would be the extreme Less setting, you can just go gradually towards more compressed tones. When you are in the crunch preset with a value of sag in the midway, you can get more compressed tones increasing the value, but also more expanded and dynamics tones decreasing the value.


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Post subject: Re: I Wish we had finer control of Sag
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:43 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:39 pm
Posts: 287
Location: Sackville, New Brunswick
I briefly had this fantasy that I could edit the fuse file with a text editor.Amplifier>
Code:
    <Module ID="114" POS="0" BypassState="1">
      <Param ControlIndex="0">27165</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="1">28476</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="2">33924</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="3">22102</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="4">20174</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="5">52428</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="6">39835</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="7">33153</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="8">33153</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="9">65535</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="10">33153</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="11">33153</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="12">6</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="13">6</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="14">6</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="15">3</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="16">4</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="17">2</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="18">6</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="19">1</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="20">0</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="21">1</Param>
      <Param ControlIndex="22">31097</Param>
    </Module>
  </Amplifier>

By trial and error I learned that <Param ControlIndex="19">0</Param> corresponds to "less" Sag, <Param ControlIndex="19">1</Param> is "Matched" and <Param ControlIndex="19">2</Param> is "more".

I'm guessing that there are only 3 states of Sag in the firmware, rather than something like a percentage value. Quel dommage. :cry:

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