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Post subject: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:31 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Hey,

I started to experiment with high gain tones for alternative rock and metal with my Mustang 3.
One thing I discovered yesterday is that, to my ears, the Metal2000 and American90 emulations sound MUCH better thru headphones than thru the Mustang speaker, particularly more defined lows and highs.

I just wanted to check on somebody that routinely uses the Mustangs for high gain to see if they have a similar impression and/or advice to get the best high gain tone out of these amps.


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:44 pm
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Location: In the Land of "Stratocaster"
What up... My experience:
Both of these amp head models sound best w/ 4X12 Greenback cab emulation (or NO cab emulation).

Bias - 0%
Sag - Match
Presence - 4 1/2-ish

Punches through well if you push your mids up... don't go scooped... sounds like $@!&...
At least in a live playing scenario it does.
Tone Setting Suggestion:
Gain - apprx 6-ish
Treble - 8-ish
Mid - 61/2-ish
Bass - 6-ish

Give a whirl... post a reply and share your experience.
Rock n' Roll 8)

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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:19 pm
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I have the same feeling, especially when playing high gain solos. I thought that something is wrong with me if i like sound from my cheap headphones more than mustang's speaker.
What is this 4x12 Greenback cab emulation and where I can find it?

EDIT: Ok I've found it. I will check those settings


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:24 pm
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I have a Mustang II.

To my ears, with my pickup (Seymour Duncan SSL5) I found the JCM800 model worked really well with the Tube Screamer stomp and the Princeton Cab.

The Greenback cab is listed as 4x12G. this sounded pretty good to me as well but I found the Princeton cab tightened up the sound.

Up the Irons !!!

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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:18 pm
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Your headphones are a FRFR output device so cab emulation sounds good through them (they are designed to produce full frequency range sound). Your Mustang's speaker and cabinet are not a FRFR output device so cab emulation doesn't sound so good through it. Try turning off cab emulation when using the Mustang's own speaker cabinet. That way you are not applying digital cabinet emulation effect on top of the real cabinet effect of your stangs cab.


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:06 pm
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Quote:
Your Mustang's speaker and cabinet are not a FRFR output device so cab emulation doesn't sound so good through it

The Mustangs apply different cab emulation to the headphones and speaker outputs, precisely because these two devices have different frequency responses. The cab emulation takes into account the amp's own speaker response. I disagree with a blanket statement that cab emulation doesn't sound good through the amp's own speaker. Some people may prefer the sound without emulation and that's fine; others like the range of sounds the different cab emulations provide. That's just everyone's subjective opinion; neither viewpoint is better, or more correct than, the other.


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:12 pm
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Like Slinger, I found I liked the 90's metal and Metal2000 models MUCH better when I changed to a different cab emulation.

In my case, it was both the 4x12G and the 2x12C cabs I liked. I ended up making my Mesa preset with the 2x12C cab. The default one is modelled after a Vintage 30 loaded mesa cab. I find it way too harsh... Makes the distortion just sound yukky.

I also agree with adding in some mids. In my case, it made a HUGE difference in the results. I'm not a big fan of "scooped" metal tones- it's way to often that they just sound whiny, shrill, and/or gutless. But in the case of the Mustang amps, it's even more true. Scoopage and high gain just don't mix well on these amps. The result is harsh, nasty, buzz-saw/ wasp in a jar-type noise. ( of course, the same can be said of too-scooped cleans. IMO, some of Eric Clapton's Strat sounds are some of the worst sounds I've ever heard come from a Stratocaster... They do work with the songs, but...)

Try rolling back the volume control, too. It makes them less noisy, and the master volume less jumpy. ( the volume and gain are dimed on both of the "basic" presets)

I was actually pretty impressed with the Liquid Solo preset, and what they did with the 90's metal amp model. Took me forever to get a sound I liked when I started fiddling with the Basic 90's Stack preset. Wasn't until I did the things I descibed above that I had my AHA! moment. Once you turn the master up high enough to get the speaker into the act, it turns into a different animal. I had WAY too much fun one day at GC while trying out my WildKat guitar on this preset!! Sustain for days, harmonics just jumping out of the fretboard, notes fading into awesome feedback- ala Gary Rossigton, etc.

The rest of the store was treated to the sight of a 40-something bald guy, giggling like a schoolgirl, with a big dopey grin on his face... ( and you're DARN right I bought that guitar!)


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:32 am
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Well, the 4X12 Greenback is already in a standard brutal metal preset. I checked different kinds of emulation and no emulation(this is something terrible - so sandy and noisy but it's probably a matter of setting it correctly). Yes adding mids and manipulating with volume can make huge difference. Also i like Liquid Solo preset and it's probably something i will start work on. I see that this amp - my is I V2 so the cheapest one(worst?) and fender fuse has really big potential for many great sounds if used property(one of best presets i've found is pipe-organ - it's really amazing but not what I'm looking for right now). I'm beginner guitarist and I have never used guitar effects before so i now that i'm not using even small percent of mustang potential but still one thing is strange for me. Despite what emulation i will set something is really missing from overdriven/distorition tones on a mustangs speaker compered to my $@!&#* headphones specially whit solos. Not only in Metal 2000 or American 90s but also British 80. It's some problem with every overdrive in this amp for me. They loose it's distorted "claw" and especially the violin strings on higher frets become so noisy. This can be fixed by some things described above but at cost of loosing this "overdrive claw" even more. Yes it's not professional I don't now if you undestand me it's really hard to explain it for me unfortunately I don't have any microphone to record what I mean

pyroman - what do you mean by "scooped" metal tones ? my English if very far from perfect ;P


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:27 pm
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Eddie The Trooper wrote:
Well, the 4X12 Greenback is already in a standard brutal metal preset. I checked different kinds of emulation and no emulation(this is something terrible - so sandy and noisy but it's probably a matter of setting it correctly). Yes adding mids and manipulating with volume can make huge difference. Also i like Liquid Solo preset and it's probably something i will start work on. I see that this amp - my is I V2 so the cheapest one(worst?) and fender fuse has really big potential for many great sounds if used property(one of best presets i've found is pipe-organ - it's really amazing but not what I'm looking for right now). I'm beginner guitarist and I have never used guitar effects before so i now that i'm not using even small percent of mustang potential but still one thing is strange for me. Despite what emulation i will set something is really missing from overdriven/distorition tones on a mustangs speaker compered to my $@!&#* headphones specially whit solos. Not only in Metal 2000 or American 90s but also British 80. It's some problem with every overdrive in this amp for me. They loose it's distorted "claw" and especially the violin strings on higher frets become so noisy. This can be fixed by some things described above but at cost of loosing this "overdrive claw" even more. Yes it's not professional I don't now if you undestand me it's really hard to explain it for me unfortunately I don't have any microphone to record what I mean

pyroman - what do you mean by "scooped" metal tones ? my English if very far from perfect ;P


"scooped" simply means the bass and treble are turned up higher than the midrange. On a graphic eq, it looks like you took a scoop out of the middle- hence the name.

It can sound snarly and mean, when done right. It's basically the sound of most 80's and 90' metal.

It can also sound hollow, thin and gutless.

Stratocaster pickups are naturally "scoopy" sounding. Lots of bass and treble, and not a lot of mids. It's why the bridge pickup is infamous for sounding thin and ice picky.

Too much scoop not only sounds like crap, but it makes you disappear from a live mix- esp if you like to crank the gain. Mids are where a guitar "lives". You aren't going to compete with the bassist or the drummer for the bass frequencies. ( or the ultra highs from the cymbals) If you listen close, you can hear this on some metal recordings. The rhythm guitar will actually come through louder than the lead- for example: Arch Enemy's Rise of the Tyrant. Michael's guitar ALWAYS sounds louder than Chris's- even when Chris is playing the lead or soloing. Rather irritating, actually. You crank it up to hear that killer solo, but all you get is distortion and white noise from the now way too loud rhythm guitar... I THINK it's because Mike's tone is middier than Chris's.

Can you tell I've been sitting around bored all day? lol


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:42 am
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Thnx for clarification :)
One more question. I've noticed that some presets, mostly based on a Metal 2000 and probably American 90 behave strange(IMO) while Palm muting. This is no problem on headphones but speaker tend to make huge rumbling while playing some(not all) p.m. power chords, mostly based on a A string, but only in certain positions. First i liked that, I thought what a power, but now I realized that it's too much and it's far louder and stronger then other parts. It' doesn't happen on headphones also It not happen on other amp simulations, at least on presets I have. What is causing this rumbles? I tried to lower the bases but it's not good solutions.
Should I use compressor(if I understand corectly how does it work)?


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:10 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Eddie The Trooper wrote:
Thnx for clarification :)
One more question. I've noticed that some presets, mostly based on a Metal 2000 and probably American 90 behave strange(IMO) while Palm muting. This is no problem on headphones but speaker tend to make huge rumbling while playing some(not all) p.m. power chords, mostly based on a A string, but only in certain positions. First i liked that, I thought what a power, but now I realized that it's too much and it's far louder and stronger then other parts. It' doesn't happen on headphones also It not happen on other amp simulations, at least on presets I have. What is causing this rumbles? I tried to lower the bases but it's not good solutions.
Should I use compressor(if I understand corectly how does it work)?


That I couldn't tell ya... Perhaps you've simply found the frequencies the cabinet resonates at?? I've noticed that some notes on my Bass's low E string are louder and more powerful than others- right around the 12th fret. I think that is just where the bass/amp resonates at.


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Post subject: Re: better Mustang high gain tones
Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:45 am
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Ok, one more question ;) This is not related to this topic but i don't want to make special threat for this thing. Few minutes ago I was trying some church organs preset and when I was playing "epic" ;) part of a Perfect Strangers suddenly the speaker start wheezing. After while all effects has gone and I was on clean sound(at least it sounded like clean), no organ sounds. I was afraid that I broke the speaker, but after changing presets everything looks ok even those organs. So what has actually happened?


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