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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:08 pm
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Hi i8chillywilly,

The Fender® Super Champ™ X2 is a hybrid amp. It has a solid state modeling front end with a 'Clean' channel (channel 1) and a modeling channel (channel two) that allows you to fully control, edit and save the available amp models and effects using Fender FUSE™ editing software.

I hope this information is helpful. Please let us know if we can assist further.

Best Regards,

Alan

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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:57 pm
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I have a question about the super champ.

Does the modelled signal pass rgrough the pre amp tube, or is it the clean channel only

Cheers.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:45 pm
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Fender TSL wrote:
Hi i8chillywilly,

The Fender® Super Champ™ X2 is a hybrid amp. It has a solid state modeling front end with a 'Clean' channel (channel 1) and a modeling channel (channel two) that allows you to fully control, edit and save the available amp models and effects using Fender FUSE™ editing software.

I hope this information is helpful. Please let us know if we can assist further.

Best Regards,

Alan



Alan

Yes it does help. thank you.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:08 pm
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i8chillywilly wrote:
pyroman wrote:
i8chillywilly wrote:


I have no opinion on the Super Champ. Didn't try it. Didn't now it was an option until after I got the mustang.

I am very happy with the mustang 3. Good luck have fun and let us know what you go with. Peace.


I went the opposite route- I bought the Super Champ first, as an upgrade to my Vox VT20+. Shortly thereafter, I heard/saw more about the Mustangs, and found a used one on Craigslist for a can't-pass-it-up price.

I just wait until my neighbors are all out to give the 'Champ a run!

I hadn't thought to add comments about how the guitar fits in the equation. BOTH amps are good at letting the guitar's tone shine through. Unfortunately- this means that the not so good stuff shows up, too! ( particularly when I'm having a "I CAN"T PLAY ANYTHING RIGHT!!" day. lol) A pos or a badly setup/ out of tune guitar will sound like crap. A well set up, in-tune, halfway decent guitar will sound a lot better!

The modelling reacts very well to changes in guitar. My Strat sounds like a Strat. Swap it for my Les Paul, and you get a very different tone. Not just the fatter middier PAF pickup sound either, it "pushes" the amp harder, and gives you more drive.

I was flabbergasted when I first got the Champ home, and plugged my Ibanez guitar in. While I loved that guitar, and it sounded good thru the Vox, it came ALIVE when I played it through the Champ. That's the only way I can describe it. It never sounded this good before, or responded this well.


Pyroman:

SuperChamp sound like a nice amp. I am not to clear on something, is this a modeling amp? It looks like it has two parts, a striaght forward clean channel and "amp voicing" channel. What niche' with this amp fill? Is voicing similar to modeling (maybe its a marketing term)?

I will have to check one out one day sooner rather than later



I'd guess it fills the role of tube amp with options. There is some preamp modelling on both channels. As far as the 12AX7 preamp tube, we've had quite a bit of discussion in the superchamp forum about this, and never really came up with a definitive answer.

The power section is all tube. 2 6V6's, and a nice chunky output transformer. Pushing about 15 watts. The combo's speaker plugs in to the speaker out jack, so you can plug the combo into any 8 ohm cab. Just in case you need to move a bit more air, or would like to try out an aftermarket speaker w/o voiding the warranty. (you can also buy this as a head only, with a matching 1x10 cab)

The voicing channel, is basically the "modelling" channel. it includes all 12 of the v1 models, plus the Jazzmaster clean. There are 16 positions, because some "amps" have 2 choices: clean or dirty/compressed. Tweed Deluxe, and Brit 60's, and perhaps the Princeton? You get a volume and gain control for this side, so you can get some nice grit out of the "clean" choices, too.

I like that the volume knob taper is nice and gradual- some of the classic Fender amps we all love will jump from quiet to TOO loud with only a tiny adjustment.

Both channels share a 2 band eq ( like many classic Fender amps- they had no mid knob either). You CAN access a mid control in Fuse, along with all the other fun bits. Also shared is the fx section. There is an fx level knob, a tap tempo, and a selector knob. Tremolo, reverb, chorus, vibratone, and delay. Each effect has 2 or three positions, so for example, you get: Room reverb; hall reverb; and Fender Spring reverb. or Deep Chorus, Fast chorus, etc. In between these settings there are combos, like chorus + delay; Tremolo + Reverb, etc. The fx are very good- I especially like the reverb, tremolo and chorus. You need to use Fuse to fully tweak the effects, but IMO that's not really the point of this amp. They've been more or less set up to give you some basic effect options that sound good with this amp.

If you want more, you can get that in Fuse, or just use your choice of pedal to get a specific effect.

So, I believe the SC X2 was intended to be used more as a standard amplifier, with some extra tonal and effect options. Those who want a full on modeller tend to go for the Mustangs. The dedicated clean channel is sweet- it stays clean nearly all the way up! Even then, the overdrive is very light.

IMO, when I've A/B'd the two using the same model on both, the 'Champ sounded richer and more full, with more of that indefinable "tube" quality. You only really notice it, though when you go back and forth between the two. I'd also say that it does a better job of getting those in between/edge of breakup sounds- likely because it does have tubes.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:51 am
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I'd guess it fills the role of tube amp with options. There is some preamp modelling on both channels. As far as the 12AX7 preamp tube, we've had quite a bit of discussion in the superchamp forum about this, and never really came up with a definitive answer.

The power section is all tube. 2 6V6's, and a nice chunky output transformer. Pushing about 15 watts. The combo's speaker plugs in to the speaker out jack, so you can plug the combo into any 8 ohm cab. Just in case you need to move a bit more air, or would like to try out an aftermarket speaker w/o voiding the warranty. (you can also buy this as a head only, with a matching 1x10 cab)

The voicing channel, is basically the "modelling" channel. it includes all 12 of the v1 models, plus the Jazzmaster clean. There are 16 positions, because some "amps" have 2 choices: clean or dirty/compressed. Tweed Deluxe, and Brit 60's, and perhaps the Princeton? You get a volume and gain control for this side, so you can get some nice grit out of the "clean" choices, too.

I like that the volume knob taper is nice and gradual- some of the classic Fender amps we all love will jump from quiet to TOO loud with only a tiny adjustment.

Both channels share a 2 band eq ( like many classic Fender amps- they had no mid knob either). You CAN access a mid control in Fuse, along with all the other fun bits. Also shared is the fx section. There is an fx level knob, a tap tempo, and a selector knob. Tremolo, reverb, chorus, vibratone, and delay. Each effect has 2 or three positions, so for example, you get: Room reverb; hall reverb; and Fender Spring reverb. or Deep Chorus, Fast chorus, etc. In between these settings there are combos, like chorus + delay; Tremolo + Reverb, etc. The fx are very good- I especially like the reverb, tremolo and chorus. You need to use Fuse to fully tweak the effects, but IMO that's not really the point of this amp. They've been more or less set up to give you some basic effect options that sound good with this amp.

If you want more, you can get that in Fuse, or just use your choice of pedal to get a specific effect.

So, I believe the SC X2 was intended to be used more as a standard amplifier, with some extra tonal and effect options. Those who want a full on modeller tend to go for the Mustangs. The dedicated clean channel is sweet- it stays clean nearly all the way up! Even then, the overdrive is very light.

IMO, when I've A/B'd the two using the same model on both, the 'Champ sounded richer and more full, with more of that indefinable "tube" quality. You only really notice it, though when you go back and forth between the two. I'd also say that it does a better job of getting those in between/edge of breakup sounds- likely because it does have tubes.[/quote]

Pyroman

Thank you for clarification and elaboration. This makes a lot more sense to me now. The only thing left to do is try one one day. Any additional gear like a second amp is a long way off for me. The MIII has more than enough for me for a while.

I hope this all helps conker. I didn't mean to take over the thread with a question. Pardon me and Apologies if I was rude for interjecting.

Peace.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:59 am
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Before i owned my mustang, which i bought on a fluke and otherwise never would have even considered, the SC is the only non 100% tube amp i might have even looked at with even a minute degree of consideration due to my belief a tube output section is the only way to get real tube amp feel and dynamics. But here i sit today blown away by the fact the mustang actually feels exactly like a tube amp with the same delicious feel/dynamics. I'd love to try a SC out of curiosity. It would seem like the ultimate amp on paper if my personal beliefs are followed. But i'm so happy with the MIII i see no reason to even plug into anything else. Why bother with tube unreliability, biasing, etc when it seems to be totally unnecessary.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:11 pm
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I have a Super Champ XD, it's a cool little amp. I've gigged with it on rainy nights when I didn't want to chance getting a bigger amp all wet. I had it cranked up to 8 to cut through and a few people came up after the show to see what amp it was. 15 tube watts even with a 10" can go pretty loud.

My opinion on tube amps, and I would like to hear from others on this. To me a tube amp is hand wired with no PCB's. All others I call amps with tubes. Now I don't really see one as better than the other because personally I've never heard a bad amp. All tones and sounds inspire song ideas for me.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:51 pm
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Looks like tomorrow is shopping day.

Anyone had a go of the blackstar ID amps?

They look pretty interesting.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:52 am
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I am also new here but playing tube amps for 20 years now and feel exactly as ozcad was speaking up , and i have to speak my mind somewhere so i am doing it here as my buddies are still giving me weird looks when i speak about my mustang 3 , no one yet believes me :) .
I am still not sure i believe it myself or is it just excitement about "new toy". I also got it by accident trade a week ago, thinking to resell it ,but took it to rehearsall same day (with default presets) and now for week i have been tweaking it making presets etc . I played and owned some really good tube amps and pedals , i dont consider myself tone freak , i usually enjoy more playing and dont spend much time making a good tone but i am definitely not noob about it either after all this time. This amp realy surprised me , i am taking it to rehearsal tomorrow and probably gonna gig with it next week , cant wait to see how it will behave on higher giging volumes , but i am pretty sure it can only sound even better. I played on few processor effects that are considered to be good , played few modelling vox amps and line6 amps and none of those come close to this amp.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:28 am
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oczad wrote:
As a beginner, take it from someone who's been playing 40+ years....the mustang is stupid good. Just get the III. If it doesn't sound good to you you're doing something wrong or as a beginner you just haven't figured out what tone is all about yet. Don't take that the wrong way. I was a beginner too at one time and i know how long it takes to really "get it" when it comes to understanding gear and what is or isn't good. The Mustang is a ridiculously good amp that has a certain sound/feel you aren't likely to get with anything else, at least not in remotely the same $ range. I spent 10 years building tube amps to find the ultimate tone and now i prefer the Mustang to any marshall I've own and any amp I've built. I think that speaks volumes !


EXACTLY!!!


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:47 am
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Black star ID30 bought today. I also had the foot switch bought for me.

Spent a long time with both the mustang and this. Was a really close run thing, I hope it isn't a choice I come to regret :)

Thanks for all the advice, you guys are awesome.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:12 am
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conkerman wrote:
Black star ID30 bought today. I also had the foot switch bought for me.

Spent a long time with both the mustang and this. Was a really close run thing, I hope it isn't a choice I come to regret :)

Thanks for all the advice, you guys are awesome.



Hey thanks for letting us know. Best of luck & I hope it brings you years of faithful service and happiness. What made decide on this one? Just curious because you did not mention this model before.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:27 pm
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Just typed a detailed explanation of my testing methodology, only to have it vanish off My tablet to places unknown.

The mustang has a huge amount going for it, but there were a couple of things I wasn't keen on.

Hair trigger volume at low, low volume.
Open back will be used as a food storage device by my 2 year old.

The blackstar, whilst having less effects and functions was a breeze to use, and felt had sounded better to me. Its a very different proposition to the mustang, set the 'voice' (increasing gain an distortion in 6 steps) then set the valve emulation (6 types of valve) set gain, volume and EQ to taste and you are away.

In the end I let my 7 year old choose, he will be using it too :-) . In reality, I can't see anyone being unhappy with either if these.

I also bought the 4 switch pedal, will get a wah at some stage and that'll be me.

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers again :-)


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:19 pm
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Hi conkerman,

Thanks for your feedback. We appreciate it. Please let us know if there is anything we might help with in the future.

Best Regards,

Alan

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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:07 pm
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I tried out a TVP a while back, on a whim. (had to see what all the shouting on my other favorite music forum was about :D ) I thought it was pretty nice.

As Conkerman said, it's a very different amp than the Mustang. It's more like a digi/solid state version of their Series 1 4 channel amps than a "traditional" modeller. I used the 60 watt combo. One thing I noticed was that the presence and resonance controls were easily the most powerful eq controls. They make a big difference, and make it worth the purchase of the larger size. This is more of a "find the right tone for you" than a " model a well known amp" device.

I didn't spend nearly enough time with it to really get a good feel for it. ( I was there to try out a guitar) The wall of Fender tube amps behind it were just too tempting!

I do like the fx loop on the Mustang, you can program the Blackstar to have one, but it replaces other functions to so so. I imagine this is on their shortlist of things to add for next time.

I also love some of the interesting and quirky effects Fender has- like the echo filter, and the vast array of different reverbs. The TVP seems to be more about the amp side of things, and less about the whiz-bangs.


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