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Post subject: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:01 am
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Hi Guys.

First Post!

I am a beginner guitarist and bought a Mustang 1 a few weeks ago which I really like, but I hate it that there are more amps than 'slots' available on the dial.

So Carpe Diem, I see an upgrade coming (my dad can have the mustang) and it's nice to treat yourself now and again.

My shortlist is currently.

Super Champ x2 (possibly the Celestion FSR model)
Mustang 3 (the increased control makes it worth it).
Vypyr VIP 3 (Dirt cheap at the mo).
Or go bananas and get something like a Ramparte.

The amp will currently be living in my lounge so needs to be reasonably unobtrusive (I really need to get 'project mancave' underway.

Because of it being in the house the amp needs to sound decent at low volume, and a headphone socket is a big plus.

Any words of wisdom from the collective?


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:18 am
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Location: England
Ramparte sounds good (I've only seen the Fender demo videos) - when played by someone who knows how to get the best out of it - and if that's the sound you want. However it has a limited range of sounds and may be frustrating for a beginner.

The Peavey Vypyrs have many fans. Personally, I didn't like the sound of the Vypyr compared to the Mustang, and it doesn't seem to have as much configurability as the Mustang (I may be wrong, I only tried one briefly, and not the latest version) - although it does have proper 'soft' knobs and better footswitch options.

Super Champ is a good option if you want a hybrid valve / modelling amp. But it doesn't have as wide a range of sounds as the Mustang.

The Mustang 3 will sound fine at low volume (although it loses some definition at very low volumes, which I think is to do with the physics of sound, speakers and our ears more than a limitation of the Mustang specifically). It has a very wide range of amp models, so as you learn you can try different things to find what sounds you like best. You'll probably end up using just one or two amp models - but at least you've had the chance to try the whole range to find those perfect one or two amps for you! It has a wide range of effects that are very configurable - ok not as configurable as something like a Boss GT100 of Line6 POD HD500, but certainly enough to cover what most people do, most of the time. Again, it will let you experiment and find the one or two effects that you actually want to use regularly (rather than just playing with them all for the fun of it, which we all do to start with!)

If you have two Mustangs in the family, then if you create a preset on the Mustang 3 that you really like, you can easily transfer that preset exactly to the Mustang 1 (using FUSE), if you do want a smaller/quieter amp for any reason. Just because you can't edit everything on the amp on the Mustang 1, don't underestimate its ability to support the full range of Mustang sounds. Conversely, as you already have a Mustang, you may want to consider the Vypyr precisely because it will give you a different set of sounds.

In summary: for where you are on your guitar journey, you can't go wrong with the Mustang. The Super Champ and Ramparte are great amps, I just think you'll find them too limiting (unless by some happy chance they turn out to be the exact sound you find you ultimately want - but there's no way to know that now!). The Vypyr series are great amps too, different sounds and features that appeal to a different audience, try one and see which of the Vypyr and Mustang appeals most to you, taking into account the fact you already have a Mustang.

Absolutely most important thing: find the amp that sounds and feels good to you, and that makes you want to pick up your guitar and play. Your fingers on the strings is the most important factor, the amp should be secondary to that. So you need an amp you like/love, but don't let it become more important than just playing the guitar.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:20 am
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My advise is to upgrade to the MIII,

If you like the I, you'll love the III

I think Scott sums it up by commenting on the wide range of options the mustangs give you. (that would apply to the Champ and the Ramparte - which is a retro feel bare bones amp. but you can get close to those sort of tones out of a mustang)

If you put a good tube amp side by side with a mustang, you WILL hear the differences.
They are subtle but they are there. The tube amps have different characteristics.


I've heard the Peavey's Don't think they are even close. IMO the Mustangs are the best in the industry right now. Despite having three kick $@! tube amps, I also have a mustang III and a Mustang IV,.. I dig them!


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:22 am
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Location: New York
Out of those options, I'd only be looking at the Super Champ x2 and Mustang 3 personally.

I've never tried the Super Champ so can't really offer any opinions there. But I do enjoy my Mustang III (the versatility is seriously hard to beat). As far as size limitations, it looks like the 'X2 has a slightly smaller footprint and it's lighter.

Super Champ X2
Amplifier Depth: 9.2" (23.3 cm)
Amplifier Width: 17.5" (44.5 cm)
Amplifier Height: 15" (38.1 cm)
Amplifier Weight: 24 lbs. (10.9 kg)


Mustang III
Amplifier Depth: 10.75" (27.3 cm)
Amplifier Width: 20.5" (52.1 cm)
Amplifier Height: 17.75" (45.1 cm)
Amplifier Weight: 36 lbs. (16.3 kg)

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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:15 am
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As a beginner, take it from someone who's been playing 40+ years....the mustang is stupid good. Just get the III. If it doesn't sound good to you you're doing something wrong or as a beginner you just haven't figured out what tone is all about yet. Don't take that the wrong way. I was a beginner too at one time and i know how long it takes to really "get it" when it comes to understanding gear and what is or isn't good. The Mustang is a ridiculously good amp that has a certain sound/feel you aren't likely to get with anything else, at least not in remotely the same $ range. I spent 10 years building tube amps to find the ultimate tone and now i prefer the Mustang to any marshall I've own and any amp I've built. I think that speaks volumes !


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:23 pm
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Dear all who have taken the time and effort to reply.

Thank you all for your comments, I had pretty much discounted the Peavey 5 minutes after writing :)

You are all right in that it's hard enough to play the notes at the moment, worrying overly about tone is just silly.

Mustang 3 or Super Champ it is then.

Stay Tuned for the next episode :)

BTW.

You all rock!


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:31 pm
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Posts: 4396
Hi conkerman,

It looks like you are getting good information and thoughtful feedback here. Please let us know if we can assist from our end as you make your buying decision.

Best Regards,

Alan

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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:17 pm
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I own both the MIII and the SC X2. Both are excellent amps, both have a very nice price point.

Tough choice- obviously, I chose option C...

I do feel it's worth mentioning that the Super Champ does not have a headphone jack. As you had that on your wish list. Imo, if you need to be QUIET, the mustang will be more wife/baby/neighbor friendly. It CAN play at low volume, and does sound great doing it, but the tube power section gives the sound a touch more oomph, and it likes to be opened up a bit to give you it's best sounds. ( like any tube amp)

On the plus side, for a beginner, the fewer extras, and simple controls make it easier to learn to use effectively. It's hard to argue with a single knob clean channel!

The Mustang also has more modern options:

XLR out for direct recording or direct to PA.

Effects loop. For adding your own modulation/delay/tremolo effect pedals, or for solo boosting with a boost pedal or EQ pedal. ( with the X2, you just have the main input. Not all fx work well going in front) For instance: My TC chorus and Delay pedals greatly prefer to run at line level (ie in the loop), and don't sound nearly as good-to my ear- when running at instrument level into the main input. If you don't care to bother with actual pedals, than this is a non issue. It's just easier for me to adjust physical knobs.

2 separate footswitch jacks. you can plug in both the 2 and 4 button footswitches at the same time, giving you a ton of hands free control.

A chromatic tuner!!! BOY do I miss this when I play with my Champ, but tuners are cheap...

Both are FUSE enabled.

You get fewer fx with the Super Champ, but the ones you get are very good. ( and you can get more, via FUSE) Chorus, Tremolo, Reverb, Vibratone, and delay. That covers the majority of your bases. Phaser and Flanger pedals DO sound good into the front of this amp.

For models, you get all the V1 Mustang models, plus the Jazzmaster Clean. AND a dedicated clean channel. I have a V1 MIII, so I don't really miss the new models.

The Champ is a tone monster, too. When I plug in my Strat or my Schecter, it's all smiles! No real effort on my part either- it just sounds GOOD. If you can find one of the Surf Green ones, get it. VERY sharp looking! I get compliments on it whenever I take it out. It likely will look better in the living room, than the black/silver Mustang.

Both amps get pretty loud if you need them to. The MIII, with a larger speaker, and more power will get louder. They're also open back, so they spread the sound around more, and aren't as directional as a closed back cabinet.

Go out and try them both. Imo, you can't really lose either way- but they're YOUR ears. In the end it's you who needs to be pleased. Don't worry if your playing isn't so great- it's your money, and you want to buy what you like. I suck pretty bad, but I have no issue with plugging in at a shop and trying away. If I offend someone's delicate sensibilities, that's their problem, lol.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:07 pm
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I never played a super champ. But common sense tells me that the fact there is an epidemic proportion of people gushing about the mustang at every forum and all over the internet, yet barely a fraction of that regarding the SC, that speaks volumes. It's literlly 100 to 1, and that can't be ignored.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:51 am
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As a beginner myself I think Scott-UK and oczad have stated it pretty head on. I passed on the viper as well and went with the Mustang 3. Largely based on YouTube videos by Intheblues and a few others. He did some really nice head to head videos and in depth(yet easy for a beginner to follow) reviews of the features of the mustang 3, 4 &5 models and effects.

I got a basic understand of how it functions, downloaded and saved a few presets and leave it on them to practice the note picking cord strumming part of it. Lots of fun. These forums are great. Everyone is crazy super helpful and polite.

I have no opinion on the Super Champ. Didn't try it. Didn't now it was an option until after I got the mustang.

I am very happy with the mustang 3. Good luck have fun and let us know what you go with. Peace.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:56 am
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I have a III and haven't had much else to compare it to, just some smaller off brand amps. The journey never ends with the III, endless variables, new presets coming out every day etc.. Check out strings10927 videos to see what can be done (he's an expert with the guitar and the amp and a great resource). I just want to mention the other part of this (the guitar), make sure you have a good set-up done by a good luthier. So many people get discouraged from playing because of a poor set-up ie... string height too high, intonation off and staying out of tune etc.. it can ruin the whole experience. It will be well worth the money to have the guitar where it needs to be first. My journey has taken me to the III and a modded MIM Telecaster and I'm finally not looking over the fence for something new and better with either. Good Luck! :D


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:28 pm
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Couldn't get to the shops at the weekend, kids eh!

I have just bought a paisley MIM strategy, my son has an Ibanez micro (a really nice 3/4) guitar. We also have a junky encore strategy copy which I have been experimenting with setup, it plays really nice now :)

I did manage to get an hour to play with my mustang 1 and setup a bunch of presets using the British watts etc amps. I like the 60s thrift.

I'll keep you updated with any news/purchases. :D


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:42 pm
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Conkerman, Welcome, I'm relatively new here myself, but you sure can get a lot of info from those aboard. I am priviledged to own a Fender Amer Special, new Squier Tele and the Mustang III v2. About a month ago I ordered a Vyper I and I sent it back in three days. Made in China, but poor sound. Stay away. The Mustang is a far superior amp and I love it. With the available different amps you can select, I don't think you can go wrong. You can tune those amps in to just about any sound you want. It does take a while to learn how to use it, but there's plenty of help here. Enjoy.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:26 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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i8chillywilly wrote:


I have no opinion on the Super Champ. Didn't try it. Didn't now it was an option until after I got the mustang.

I am very happy with the mustang 3. Good luck have fun and let us know what you go with. Peace.


I went the opposite route- I bought the Super Champ first, as an upgrade to my Vox VT20+. Shortly thereafter, I heard/saw more about the Mustangs, and found a used one on Craigslist for a can't-pass-it-up price.

I just wait until my neighbors are all out to give the 'Champ a run!

I hadn't thought to add comments about how the guitar fits in the equation. BOTH amps are good at letting the guitar's tone shine through. Unfortunately- this means that the not so good stuff shows up, too! ( particularly when I'm having a "I CAN"T PLAY ANYTHING RIGHT!!" day. lol) A pos or a badly setup/ out of tune guitar will sound like crap. A well set up, in-tune, halfway decent guitar will sound a lot better!

The modelling reacts very well to changes in guitar. My Strat sounds like a Strat. Swap it for my Les Paul, and you get a very different tone. Not just the fatter middier PAF pickup sound either, it "pushes" the amp harder, and gives you more drive.

I was flabbergasted when I first got the Champ home, and plugged my Ibanez guitar in. While I loved that guitar, and it sounded good thru the Vox, it came ALIVE when I played it through the Champ. That's the only way I can describe it. It never sounded this good before, or responded this well.


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Post subject: Re: Amplifier Quandary.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:38 pm
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pyroman wrote:
i8chillywilly wrote:


I have no opinion on the Super Champ. Didn't try it. Didn't now it was an option until after I got the mustang.

I am very happy with the mustang 3. Good luck have fun and let us know what you go with. Peace.


I went the opposite route- I bought the Super Champ first, as an upgrade to my Vox VT20+. Shortly thereafter, I heard/saw more about the Mustangs, and found a used one on Craigslist for a can't-pass-it-up price.

I just wait until my neighbors are all out to give the 'Champ a run!

I hadn't thought to add comments about how the guitar fits in the equation. BOTH amps are good at letting the guitar's tone shine through. Unfortunately- this means that the not so good stuff shows up, too! ( particularly when I'm having a "I CAN"T PLAY ANYTHING RIGHT!!" day. lol) A pos or a badly setup/ out of tune guitar will sound like crap. A well set up, in-tune, halfway decent guitar will sound a lot better!

The modelling reacts very well to changes in guitar. My Strat sounds like a Strat. Swap it for my Les Paul, and you get a very different tone. Not just the fatter middier PAF pickup sound either, it "pushes" the amp harder, and gives you more drive.

I was flabbergasted when I first got the Champ home, and plugged my Ibanez guitar in. While I loved that guitar, and it sounded good thru the Vox, it came ALIVE when I played it through the Champ. That's the only way I can describe it. It never sounded this good before, or responded this well.


Pyroman:

SuperChamp sound like a nice amp. I am not to clear on something, is this a modeling amp? It looks like it has two parts, a striaght forward clean channel and "amp voicing" channel. What niche' with this amp fill? Is voicing similar to modeling (maybe its a marketing term)?

I will have to check one out one day sooner rather than later


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