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Post subject: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:08 pm
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I can build a 2X12 cabinet. Dovetail joints, etc, not a problem. Electronically speaking, I'm completely deficient. I have 2 questions:

1) Aside, from the enclosure, what do I need to do this? What specs should the speakers live up to, in order to handle the Mustang V output, and what additional electronic parts are required?

2) If you were to build your ideal 2X12 for a Mustang head, what speakers would you use, and why?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

paulblackford


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:41 pm
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Well, according to the sticky thread above: Fender® Mustang™ V Cabinet Requirements you need 2 x 12" 8 ohm speakers rated (in watts) higher than the output wattage of the V. Each speaker would get a separate jack.

As to what speakers specifically, that's a very subjective matter and comes down to personal taste.

BTW, I do my cabs with finger joints as opposed to dovetails. They are very nearly as strong as dovetails (when glued), are easier/faster to make on my table saw and I didn't have to buy some fancy and expensive router jig - I made my own...


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:53 am
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To add to p90sdude's reply:

The speakers should be wired completely independently from each other, no cross-connections at all.

Each speaker needs to handle 75w: the Mustang V is 150w, made up of two completely independent 75w amps, one for each channel (left-right). So to allow some headroom for safety, look for speakers rated at 100w or above.

You don't need any other electronic parts - if the speakers are the correct rating, they can connect directly to the Mustang V outputs: one speaker to each output jack. In particular, one thing I'd avoid (and I'll mention this in case you're thinking of doing it) is: don't install a speaker with the wrong rating (power or impedance) and attempt to solve the problem with a bunch of series/parallel resistors. That's just over-complicating things. There are enough speakers out there that you can find the sound you want, in a speaker that's already the right rating.

Make sure you wire the speakers in-phase (well, unless you deliberately want out-of-phase effects!). This simply means make sure that whichever speaker connection goes to the tip of one jack plug, the same connection on the other speaker should also go to the tip of its jack plug. Make sure you don't accidentally reverse the tip/sleeve connections to one speaker. And I'll re-emphasise: make sure each speaker has a completely separate, independent connection to its jack plug (that you'll plug into the socket in the Mustang V). There must be no electrical connection between the speakers, their wiring, the jack plugs, sockets, etc, etc. This includes making sure there is no inadvertent connection eg through a metal chassis on which the parts are mounted.

As for choice of speaker, look on youtube: there are many comparison videos of different guitar amp speakers. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knjV-PTScZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j9MwBC22ZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skfVh5qagoo

...and these will then link you to numerous other similar videos. Note not all the speakers demo'ed in these videos will be suitable for your purpose: they don't all have the correct impedance or power rating.

For a first home-build speaker cab, it may be as well just to go with something that's well-known and readily available in your area, rather than worrying about trying to find something perfect/esoteric. You can then learn from that and tweak in the future.

Finally, if I were to build my own cab for a Mustang V head, personally I'd build two separate 1x12 cabs. Easier to carry, and also you can position them apart from each other to make the best of the stereo output from the amp.

Very finally - if you're doing this for the interest of building your own cab, that's great, I'd do exactly the same. If you're doing it just to save money, then I'd suggest having a look at ready-made cabs, both new and second-hand. You'll probably find quite a lot can be bought for less than it will cost you to buy the parts to make your own.


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:11 am
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IMPORTANT POINT ON ELECTRICAL SAFETY
One more thing to mention, as you say you're inexperienced with electrical work.

The voltages output by the Mustang V are (probably) not enough to kill anyone, but will give you a noticeable electric shock if you touch any live components.

Once you've wired up your speakers, make sure you aren't touching any of the connections when you test. For example, if one speaker isn't working, it would be very easy to absent-mindedly start poking the wires/plugs/soldering to the speaker terminals to check for loose connections, etc. Do not do this! Turn everything off and unplug the speakers from your amp before checking any of the connections.

When the whole thing is finished and working, make sure that all connections are insulated and suitably enclosed so that they can't be inadvertently touched by prying fingers. There's also the risk of accidentally shorting connections - which could damage the amp and speakers, even if it doesn't fry you.


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:18 am
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that is a very interesting project, I particularly like the 2 1x12 cabs, Holly boom-box Batman!

You might want to consider using the same speakers used on the Mustang cabinet, to get comparable sound (they are pretty flat response for a guitar amp). IMO these Celestions should work fine and are quite inexpensive (80$ each)

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Seventy808/


Please share your pictures when finished!


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:20 am
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scott-uk wrote:
... And I'll re-emphasise: make sure each speaker has a completely separate, independent connection to its jack plug (that you'll plug into the socket in the Mustang V). There must be no electrical connection between the speakers, their wiring, the jack plugs, sockets, etc, etc. This includes making sure there is no inadvertent connection eg through a metal chassis on which the parts are mounted...

That's a good point. Many "chip" amps do not use earth (ground) for the negative side of the speaker terminal but. instead a seperate negative voltage and shorting the neg terminal to ground will burn up the chip. So, isolated jackplates for sure.

As far as DIY cabs being cost effective, that depends...

A 2x12 guitar speaker cab made from good cabinet grade 3/4" birch plywood wil cost about $90-$100 in materials (incuding all hardware; 8 corners, jackplate, jack, dog bone, "t" nuts, grill cloth and piping but excluding tolex).

If you can find used for less that's a well and good. However, a lot of modern guitar cabs are now made from MDF. An all MDF cab can be constructed for somewhere around $60-70 (minus tolex). Know what your buying.

Another good reason to go DIY is to get custom sizing. I have a mid '60s YBA-2b (2x12AX7 +2x6V6) that was housed as a combo with a single 15" speaker. It was tall and thin so, it had a nasty habit of falling on it's face at the slightest tug and looked a bit odd on a stand. A custom built cab would have set me back more than I was willing to come off of so, a few years ago I built this 1x12 combo cab using 1x12 pine (spruce) boards for the sides w/birch plywood baffle board:

Image
Image

I could have done a better job on the grill cloth but it was my first cab. Tolex was a piece of cake tho.

I have since built a second matching 1x12. These are now loaded with Canabis Rex, I bought one CR intending to put it in my MII but decided to try it on the Traynor first and well, needless to say, the MII is still under warranty.


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:42 am
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Hey that's a nice piece of Canadian technology right there! (Traynor) I have one of those myself (a bass amp in my case)

question: why did you built it closed back? sound preference or build simplicity?


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:37 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
question: why did you built it closed back? sound preference or build simplicity?

The original cab had a partially closed back so, that is how I made the new one. Your right, it's a little too directional /boxy by it's self and TBO, I have been planning on opening the bottom of the back as well. But, OK, I'll admit it - I'm a procrastinator.

The 2nd 12" cab is open back except for a sliver in the middle for the jack plate. This gives a more "open" sound.

Although designed as a bass amp, the Bass Mate is only 15 watts (Traynor says 18 RMS but others say 15...) so, under powered for a bass amp (must have been for Folk music). I put a SHO as the last pedal before the input and it butters my bread pretty good but it isn't super loud - but louder than the MII can go and not turn to garbage. The CR's help boost the volume quite a bit more.


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:15 pm
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a closed back for bass is not necessarily a bad thing, my bass amp is also 20 watts and closed back and is just fine.
In the other hand I built a small 1x8 combo princeton clone, first tried closed back and was awful, then just opened the back and now it fills the room. As an added bonus you can get al kinds of junk and cables into to the open back :)
I used stained spruce for the cab (no tolex) and I really like the results.


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:13 pm
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Location: Orlando Fl. USA
Tech Specs


Why not just build it to the same specs as the Mustang IV. It's the same amp but in combo version. Just double check the ohms rating for the 2 speakers

Total Power 150W
Speaker Size 2 x 12" Celestion G12P-80
Effects Yes
Reverb Yes
EQ Treble, Middle, Bass
Amp Modeling Yes
Number of Models 100 Presets, 18 Amp Models
Inputs 1 x Instrument, 1 x 1/8" (Aux)
Outputs 2 x XLR, 1 x Headphone (1/8")
Footswitch I/O Yes
Effects Loop Yes
Height 21.5"
Width 26.5"
Depth 10.75"
Weight 47 lbs.
Manufacturer Part Number 2300400000

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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:33 am
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Quote:
Why not just build it to the same specs as the Mustang IV. It's the same amp but in combo version

This of course begs the question: if one wants a 2x12, why not just buy the Mustang IV combo? Simpler than a separate head and 2x12 cab, and just as portable (the Mustang IV is a lot lighter in weight than one might expect, particularly compared to valve/tube 2x12 combo amps!).


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:29 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
This of course begs the question: if one wants a 2x12, why not just buy the Mustang IV combo?


First, let me say thanks for all of the info everyone has posted. I really appreciate the help. As for the Mustang IV, I haven't ruled that out. My main concern is that my computer, and Fuse software, is in my office in the attic of my house, and my practice space is in the basement. I would like to take advantage of the Fuse software, and I really don't like the idea of hauling a 2X12 combo up and down 2 flights of very narrow, Victorian stairs. I have nice monitors on my computer, and thought it would be easier to just carry the head up and down for adjusting my tones. It may not seem like a big deal, but for someone in my health, and age, it makes a big difference. I also haven't ruled out getting a cheap laptop, to bring Fuse to the amp. My original post is just to explore one option. I admit, I'm a bit of a geek for efficiency, and I like to work out streamlined systems. I've also noticed that my local (50 mile radius) brick and mortar music stores (Guitar Center) seem to never stock the IV. It seems like all of them carry the I, III, and V. I would have to have them order the IV, so that I could then trade in some gear on it's purchase. Again, it's still an option. Just feeling it all out.


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:12 pm
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If it serves as a reference I hardly ever use Fuse
I find it easier and faster to edit directly on my amp.
If you plan on downloading presets you will need fuse


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Post subject: Re: How do I build a 2X12 for a Mustang V?
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:42 am
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Quote:
I have nice monitors on my computer, and thought it would be easier to just carry the head up and down for adjusting my tones

OK understand entirely about not wanting to carry a heavy cab or combo up narrow stairs.

However, be aware that your presets will sound different through a computer / monitor speakers than through the amp's real cab. So if you adjust your tones to sound good on the monitors, they probably won't sound how you want them when you use the amp.

Some people have two (or more) sets of presets for this reason - one set for live use with the amp, one set that give the same sounds for direct recording, etc.

What cab do you have in the basement?

I agree with jedi2b, you can do most of what you need on the amp. If you do need to adjust anything that requires FUSE (eg some amp models have a 'bright' switch you can only set with FUSE), do just that on the computer in the attic, then take the head back down to the basement and tweak the rest of the controls on the amp.

Or as you suggest, get a cheap computer for the basement.


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