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Post subject: Need Mustang help
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:27 am
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Hi everyone,
I purchased a Mustang III this week and so far it sounds awful. Nothing like the sounds I was hearing on the You Tube clips I watched. It’s brittle, boxy, harsh and unresponsive.
I am 61 and although I usually get around on the computer well enough for most things I want to do, I'm not super intuitive about it.When I have a computer problem, sometimes I can solve it some times I can't. I consider the Mustang III a computer.
I’ve been using a Line 6 Pod vers.1.0 through my stereo for about 14 years (I only record and play at home and haven’t played live for years ) The Pod is pretty straight forward, pick an amp model adjust the gain and tone controls and your all set. It sounded pretty good right out of the box. I was hoping this amp was going to take what the Pod did to the next level but unless I can get pointed in the right direction this thing is going back to the store (thank god for 30 day return policies).
So, is there anybody who can walk us through this so I can get a least one good tone to start with? I’m talking about starting at square one and going step by step by step, leave nothing out (steps, adjustments, dial settings ect.) using just the amp models not the presets.Do you have to use the fuse software to get good sound out of this amp? I like a nice classic rock style Marshall or Fender sound (not metal) with buttery distortion that cleans up well for rhythm.
Obviously I don’t need 100 watts for what I do but I wanted the LCD screen and I wanted an amp with a speaker in case I decided to find some people to play with. Some people on forums said this amp is too loud to play at the volumes I play at (40 watt stereo system at slightly less than half volume) and others said it wasn’t. I was thinking that because it is a modeling amp and not a tube amp it would’nt.t need to be turned up to get a good sound. Am I mistaken in this? People have also said just keep working with it and you’ll get it. But after a couple of days of trying and making no progress I can’t see what I’m going to stumble across that will make the difference.
And finally, what about the controls on page 2 of the parameter knobs (sag ect.) I have no idea what these are or what they do.
I’ll bet that I’m not the only one who could use this kind of help. Any takers?


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:54 am
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Quote:
unless I can get pointed in the right direction

There are plenty of people on this forum who can do exactly that. I'll try and start...

Quote:
using just the amp models not the presets

Well, you can't NOT use a preset - there is always a preset selected. However, you can very easily have a preset with just an amp model and no effects, which is I think what you want. So I'll try and explain how.

Quote:
starting at square one and going step by step by step

Turn the amp on. After a couple of seconds, the display will say "00" in its top left corner, and some other stuff we can ignore. "00" means preset zero is selected, which is what always happens when you turn the amp on. It doesn't surprise me this isn't the sound you want!

Turn the "encoder wheel" (also sometimes called the data wheel) anti-clockwise. This is the large, plain, black knob to the right of the LCD screen. You'll see the number in the top left of the screen change to 99, 98, 97, etc. The text to its right changes too. Somewhere in the low 90s (either 90 or 93, depending which version of Mustang you have), the text will say something like "Basic 65 Twin."

Play your guitar, see if that's a sound you like. Use the tone knobs and reverb exactly like you would on a normal amp. Don't worry if the tone seems to 'jump' when you first turn the knob, there's a reason that might happen that needn't concern us now.

This sound is emulating a Fender Twin Reverb - a good clean sound. If you want something a bit grittier, turn the encoder wheel again and look for "Basic 65 Deluxe" - number 90 or 92. As you might guess, this is a Fender Deluxe emulation.

If you want a VOX-like sound, look for "Basic British 60s" - it's number 93 or 95. Note you turn the encoder clockwise to go back up the numbers again: 92, 93, 94, 95, etc. Once it gets to 99, it starts again from 00, 01, 02, and so on.

If you want a Marshall-like sound, look for "Basic British 70s" - number 94 or 96.

Once you've found the basic sound you want, you might want to setup the amp so that you get this sound by default when you turn the amp on. To do that:
- Select the sound you want, as above
- Play with tone, gain, volume, reverb, until happy
- Press the SAVE button once - it lights up red
- Notice the LCD display now says "Choose Save Destination" with the "95" (or whatever) number underneath
- Turn the encoder until this number changes to "00"
- Press SAVE again

As you might guess, you've made a copy of these settings in the "00" preset, which the amp uses when you first turn it on. This means you've lost whatever was previously in the "00" position, but don't worry about that. It sounds like you don't want it anyway, and if you ever do want it, you can get it back - I won't complicate things by explaining how to do that here though!

Quote:
Do you have to use the fuse software to get good sound out of this amp?

Absolutely not. Almost all the amp's settings can be controlled from the amp itself, at least for the Mustang 3 (and above) that you have. There are a small number of things you can only do from FUSE, but they aren't going to be important at this stage.

Quote:
I like a nice classic rock style Marshall or Fender sound (not metal) with buttery distortion that cleans up well for rhythm.

The above should get you well on the way to this. Use the amp's GAIN control to vary the distortion.

We should probably cover the difference between the VOLUME and MASTER VOLUME knobs, but let's give you a chance to try everything above first.

Also the next thing will probably be to help you create two or three different presets to cover a range of tones you want, rather than just a single "00" preset. Let us know when you want help with that.

After that we can help you add some effects to your sounds, if you want.

Quote:
this amp is too loud to play at the volumes I play at

Not at all, because the power amp is solid-state and all the tone is created digitally, these amps work very well at low volumes.

Quote:
what about the controls on page 2 of the parameter knobs (sag etc)

Don't worry about these. In fact don't worry about the parameter displays on the LCD screen at all yet, just use the amp's real knobs - although you might like to study what happens on the LCD screen when you turn the tone knobs, etc.


Last edited by scott-uk on Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:15 am
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Quote:
starting at square one and going step by step by step

I think my suggestion above is the simplest way to get good, uncluttered, basic sounds from the Mustang amps. There is a different way to do it that you may also like to try, which starts to give you a bit of insight into how you change some of the other settings. I just offer this as an alternative, use whichever makes most sense to you.

Turn the amp on, wait until the display says "00 ..."

Press any of the STOMP, MOD, DELAY and REVERB knobs that are lit. Just press the button briefly, don't hold it down (that will do something else!). Pressing it briefly should make the light go out, and turn off that effect.

Now press the AMP button. The first line of the display will tell you which amp model is selected, eg "British 60s." Turn the Encoder wheel (the large, plain, black wheel to the right of the LCD screen) and the amp model will change. It will cycle through all the available amps, then back to the first one.

Important: before turning the encoder wheel above, make sure the first line of the display is showing the amp model. You can tell this because the top left of the display will be a little picture of a guitar amp, rather than "00" the preset number. If the top left of the display is still the preset number, make sure you press the AMP button, once. Or, if the top left of the display looks like a little picture of a guitar stomp pedal, and contains the letters "STP" or "MOD" or "DLY" or "REV" then press EXIT once, then press AMP once. Check there is a little picture of a guitar amp, then you can continue turning the encoder wheel to try the different amp models.

Play your guitar and see which amp models you like. Use the GAIN and TONE knobs to tweak the sound. Use the real knobs on the amp, don't try and do anything with the encoder wheel for this, at this stage; just use the encoder wheel to change the amp model, and use the real knobs for everything else.

Don't press the AMP button again, or you'll select another page of controls, which we don't need to worry about yet. Don't press any of the STOMP, MOD or DELAY buttons, or you'll turn those effects back on, which we don't want yet.

Note if you turn the REVERB knob, the REVERB button will light up - when you turn the knob, the amp assumes you want to use REVERB, so automatically turns it back on for you. If you decide you don't want REVERB, turn the knob to zero or press the REVERB button again to make the light go out.

When you've found a sound you like, you can save it. If you don't save it, it will be lost when you turn the amp off (and if you were to select a different preset). Because we've just been changing the settings of preset "00", if you press the SAVE button twice, it will simply overwrite preset "00" and your new settings will be the default next time you turn the amp on.


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:22 pm
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Scott-UK, both posts EXCELLENT!!


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:53 pm
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Lynn Nicholson wrote:
Scott-UK, both posts EXCELLENT!!


Scott-UK you should write the manual fo this amp.


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:03 pm
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Scott,
Thank you for your prompt reply and spectacularly generous effort. I truly appreciate it. Unfortunately the method you detail is what I've been doing from the start. I was thinking there might be something else I hadn't figures out. I think were all aware that manufacture presets are generally pretty awful (who comes up with these things?) so I knew before I bought it that I was going to bypass them and go directly to setting it manually. So, that being said, I'm still in the same predicament with the sound and it looks like there may be no where else to go with this but back to the store.I don't know, maybe I got a bad amp.
In the early seventies I used to play through 50 and 100 watt Marshall plexies turned up to ten (ah the good ole' days!) playing Allman Bros. - Derek and the Domino's type stuff so I know what they sound like. With the Mustang everything is pretty stiff and crispy sounding (not warm) and even in the 80's Marshall model with the gain turned all the way up there's not that much distortion and sustain.I don't know, maybe a different speaker would help. I've still got an old Fender 2X12 cabinet with EV guitar speakers in it that always sounded pretty good, maybe I'll hook it up. Thanks again.
Bruce


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:06 pm
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Many of the presets suck. It might be a computer, but you can use it just like a regular amp, as per the previous post explanation.

Don't discount the speaker needing to break in. a 12" might need some time. I have an MI and wasn't taken with it at first, due to many of the things you describe. I went and tried the III recently and was expecting it just to sound like a fuller version of the one I got, but it sucked. Really thin and harsh whatever I did.

But Mustang aren't meant to be speaker swapped and modded, unlike tubes they're not putting out a signature sound. They've chosen one that will work for all sorts of different sounds available. It's not going to magically improve putting something else in.


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:28 pm
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If it's any consolation, the factory presets IMO are so bad they make the amp seem like any old SS amp would be better. A 70's peavey SS would be better ! They really are that bad. The good news however is if on a scale of 1-10 those are a 1 or 2, a well tweaked patch on the mustang is capable of being a 10+. It's literally like the worse amp compared to the best. So before you start worrying i would suggest you first describe the type of tone you like best and maybe we can set you up with a sound either by giving you the settings so you can tweak it yourself, or if you can't a patch you can download and put in the amp via your PC and the fuse software. You mentioned a marshall tone that cleans up well....thats exactly the type of tone i like and if you want i can send you some patches or type out the settings for a few patches i feel do that really well.

By the way, i just turned 61 myself a week ago. I've played tube amps forever and built my own in order to create my ideal tone, and the mustang had me closeting my tube stuff within a week after i bought it. I bought it on a fluke by the way and never played a modeler i felt sounded good, and more than that FELT good (dynamics/touch) till i got the mustang and made some patches i like. Took me a month or more to really dial in my sounds perfectly, but it now sounds and feels better than most anything I've ever played. Don't give up and return it till you've learned to tweak it well. Spend a lot of time getting to know what every setting does. It will take many hours to really learn it and find the magic, but you'll find some good tones soon after you learn the basics. Then it will improve greatly as you learn the effects of each setting intimately. The time spent is more than worth it because you will end up with what is basically like having a number of classic tube amps, pedals, and effects all in one box. The fact thats possible with quality of tone thats right up there with the best and at a ridiculous price is just nuts. Keep at it !


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:38 am
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Quote:
it looks like there may be no where else to go with this but back to the store.I don't know, maybe I got a bad amp

It would certainly be worth trying a different amp in the store, just in case yours is a dud. But I'd suggest persevering a bit with the settings.

Quote:
50 and 100 watt Marshall plexies turned up to ten

OK, I just did a side-by-side comparison of my Mustang and my Marshall VM (not something I'd ever thought to do before...)

With the gain on 10 on both (VM on HDR for max gain), the overall distortion and tone are pretty similar - if not identical, certainly the Mustang is good enough not to be dissatisfied. However, with the master volume at 'home' levels, neither sounds its best - the tone is there but doesn't grab you. Maybe this is the issue? There seems to be a 'sweet spot' (that's interestingly about the same on both amps) above which they really come alive. Frustratingly, that spot is at the upper end of acceptable 'home' levels (depending on your neighbourhood and co-habitees of course!). So maybe you can try a slightly higher volume and see if that helps, if a fully-cranked Marshall tone is what you're after.

Also, play with the tone controls - I find my Mustang sounds more Marshall-like if I drop the bass and raise the treble and mids.

Quote:
maybe a different speaker would help

As per Drubbing's reply, I don't think this will change anything significantly. A better thing to try is experiment with the different cabinet emulations. This is the fourth 'dial' on the second page of amp settings on the LCD screen.

As you change this control (by turning the encoder wheel - I'm assuming you can get as far as selecting it, but please ask if not), it emulates different physical speaker cabinets. This can make quite a difference to the sound. Some of the names of these are obvious, others less so - but don't worry about the names, just try the different settings and see if one of them gives you a sound more to your liking.


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:19 am
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The thing that's bothersome to me is you said you can't get the any real sustain or distortion when using the Marshall model. If, as you've said, you understand the process of selecting and modifying a base preset and this is the case there may very well be something wrong with the amp.

I'm 61 also by the way and I use the Marshall model a fair amount on various songs in live performances. I have ridiculous levels of sustain and distortion with a very "Marshally" sound (I've had Marshalls in the past just like you). I can hit a power chord and hold it as long as I want and it will only fade slightly over a period of 3 or 4 measures. Generally I have my gain set at around 4 or so, and my model volume up to around 7. My master volume is typically at about 3 and a half, but I get the same effect if I roll off the master volume. I don't do anything special with the tone knobs or SAG or Cabinet emulations. So this statement you've made does make me wonder if there's not something wrong with the amp.

Maybe it might be worth a trip to the music store you bought it from and just try the same settings on the floor model and see if there's a difference before you lug the amp back up there. It truly is mystifying why you wouldn't get the same distortion and sustain I'm getting if you're doing things as noted above.

Maybe a better way to

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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:41 am
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To 70's brit which is supposed to be a super lead has as much gain as i think anyone would need for anything but metal, and you can use the footswitch to turn a stomp on for a boost when needed. The 80's (JCM800) not so much because thats the way the 800 MV amp actually is. It's more of a turn it loud to get gain or add a pedal type of amp.

But heres the thing about the mustang that i'm finding. The models that have little gain i add a stomp model, usually the greenbox. It actually doesn't act like a real pedal but in a good way. Unlike real pedals they clean up well with the guitar vol rolled off. So i peg the model's gain then add whatever amount more than that i need via the greenbox. It tightens up loose low end and it sounds fantastic. I especially like this on the tweed models and i've gotten some great dynamic tones that chime when rolled off.

The only problem i have with that method is if i want a clean boost to take it over the top i can't since it's already being used. So the options are use an outboard box or give the patch more gain to begin with, as much as you'd want, then play normally rolled back to about 7-8 and use 10 for your gain boost. The issue there is you then may not be able to roll back to a clean enough tone. But it's been ok for me. Or put a copy of the model in the patch next to it and add more gain to it via the pedal's gain setting then switch to that patch for a boost.I generally use the supersonic model if i want the right degree of gain i want and use the stomp as a boost, since that amp model has all the gain you could need for the basic tone w/o using a stomp other than as a boost when needed.


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:52 pm
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This thread is a darn good read!

Lots of good ideas here. I have to agree with the poster who said that your sustain problem could very well be a dud amp. I own a V1, not a 2, but sustain is NOT one of it's problems. A couple of my guitars-a Gibbo SG, and a Schecter LP copy, for example have absolutely sick sustain using this amp. I'm not really a gainiac either, as I prefer low to med gain tones. (hence my reliance on the bassman model.)

I tend to use a pedal if I want more- mainly because I HAVE them, and I like the ones I have. I'm quite impressed with the sustain leading to feedback- ala Gary Rossington-I can get out of my bassman preset with a distortion pedal pushing it! ( via the gain knob NOT the level knob) MXR '78 Distortion, if it matters.

Also, since someone mentioned the CAB control: Don't forget you can turn this OFF as well. If you're using the amp as a regular combo amp, speaker cabinet modelling is kind of redundant, anyhow. A lot of guys have reported that this makes a lot of difference at stage volume. ( why use a digital model of a cabinet, when you're playing it through an ACTUAL 1x12 cabinet?)

As someone else mentioned, I have yet to fool with the Bias or Sag, just the regular tone controls.

Speaker break-in is a good point, too. I got mine used, so I suspect mine was already broken in. It did not sound stiff or thin like you describe. It has, however, continued to improve the more I play it. It did take a while for me to get it sounding really the way I like it. I can't even tell you what magic things I did to get there, it just sort of happened one day.


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:36 pm
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I have a mustang I and just got a III this weekend so I don't have to use a computer to adjust effects anymore. I can't play above vol 2 without starting to disturb others in the house, and if you go really quiet, it sounds bad, but only when really low. The III sounds a little fuller due to its larger speaker but not as much as i thought. Hat shows how good the mustang I is, I wish it had an LCD. It's also so much lighter.

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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:35 am
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oczad,
It's worth a try and I would appreciate it if you would like to describe 1 or 2 of you settings. But I'm really beginning to think the amp might be the problem. I can't believe I could be so far away from good sound due to the simple tweaking of the tone knobs as everyone describes.
Buce


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Post subject: Re: Need Mustang help
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:02 am
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Another thought - are the guitar and pickups all in good order? If there's a sustain problem, is it with the amp or are the strings just not ringing for long enough, or are the pickups not sending the basic signal, are they too far from the strings, etc.


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