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Post subject: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:32 pm
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Seriously? What is Fender thinking? Again...they think that everyone who uses this amp is some living room cowboy. I put this amp away for a few months and went back to my older Laney half stacks because of other issues. It seems that you just cannot use this amp if you expect any kind of versatility. Yeah yeah yeah...you get all the teeny bopper sounds that pretty much amount to the Apps that you can buy for your IPhone but are useless on stage. This amp is not for people who mean business.
I remember when Fender use to cater to actual musicians who played music in general. Not just Rock guys who only need teeny bubble gum distortion. Now.....if you want quality sound you have to go look all over he!!'s creation for an older Twin, or Super Reverb because the new ones are all made in friggin Mexico at half the cost for twice the price. Way to screw your own country Fender! And people wonder why Americans are fed up with big corporations. I would gladly pay $3000 for an American amp, but I won't pay that kind of money for a company spending it's money somewhere else and screwing American musicians in the deal.
So now....I have a gig with this band playing in Las Vegas this fall. I start rehearsals this weekend. It's a rock and roll gig so I figure the Fender Mustang V may be the way to go.....Bzzzzt!!! Wrong! And I don't even get a parting gift for the effort.
Turns out that you really cannot run any of these so called "stomp boxes" built into this amp as a volume boost. They only increase the distortion but the amp does not get any louder even if you turn the actual amp simulator volume down and the stomp box up. What the he!!??? So ok....I'll just use a real stomp box. In my case, I use the Dimebag distortion (great pedal by the way). Nope....still seems to go in before the preamp in the head so no go. Again, more distortion but no volume boost. OK......I'll just run through the effects loop with my pedal board. Wow.....works! But now...my Volume pedal and my custom Wah are completely useless. Turns out that the effects loop is in a strange place. I am assuming after the preamp but also before the amp simulator or something screwed up like that. All my Wah does is send the signal from one side of the amp to the other....funny......I am not running it stereo. But the wah effect is so minimal that I may as well not be using it at all. My volume pedal just decimates the tone of everything and messes with the stereo channels. So now, to run everything in my pedal board, I have to run my distortion through the loop because it's ineffective otherwise, but all of my other effects have to run through the instrument in. Now I have 5 friggin cables running from my amp to my board. Why 5? Because that 4 switch pedal that comes with the amp is friggin practically useless without the 2 switch pedal if I have to use multiple effects from more than one preset. Wow........
Now....back to the Laneys. Even my old Roland Jazz Chorus beats this amp to death....at least it's effects loop works properly. That's ok with me. I'm just going to sell this Fender. What a mistake. Fender anything....never again.
You guys on this forum may take all the jabs you like. Fender knows they're screwing you and doesn't care. These amps are for people who have day jobs. They no longer want to make real equipment. If your a professional.......Fender has forgotten all about you.

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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:07 am
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
Quote:
you get all the teeny bopper sounds that pretty much amount to the Apps that you can buy for your IPhone but are useless on stage. This amp is not for people who mean business

Many people use the Mustang amps successfully for gigging and most people think the built-in effects are pretty good. Obviously they won't be the perfect set of effects for everyone, but that doesn't mean they are bad.

Quote:
the new ones are all made in friggin Mexico at half the cost for twice the price

I'm not sure which models you've looked at, but Fender does make several of its amp ranges in USA. And there are plenty of amp manufacturers building in USA and Europe, if that's an important concern to you; there is no shortage of choice.

Quote:
you really cannot run any of these so called "stomp boxes" built into this amp as a volume boost

As discussed in several other topics recently, this is nothing to do with the Mustang, it applies to all solid-state amps. You can't 'boost' the input signal to the point of overdriving the amp - solid-state circuitry doesn't work that way. There are essentially two types of boost/overdrive pedal: those that create the effect internally, but without changing the overall signal level, and those that create the effect by deliberately overdriving the signal. The former work with any amp; the latter only work with (and are specifically designed to work with) valve/tube amps, not solid-state amps. Make sure your pedal is of the former type.

Quote:
Turns out that the effects loop is in a strange place. I am assuming after the preamp but also before the amp simulator or something screwed up like that.

The effects loop is after all the Mustang's modelling and effects, just before the power amp (ok, with the V2 Mustang amps, there's a subtlety around cab emulation: http://www.fender.com/support/articles/ ... mplifiers/, but I don't think that's relevant here). That's exactly where most people would want it, most of the time.

Quote:
All my Wah does is send the signal from one side of the amp to the other....funny......I am not running it stereo.

The Mustang V has a stereo effects loop. So you either need to use stereo effects in your loop, or mix the two fx-sends to a single signal for your (mono) effects, then split them back to stereo again for fx-return. From what you describe, it sounds as though you only have your pedal board connected to one side (left or right) of the fx-loop. Or maybe you're accidentally using left fx-send into right fx-return, or something like that.

Quote:
Now I have 5 friggin cables running from my amp to my board

This sounds unnecessarily complicated. The whole point of the Mustang series is to reduce the number of external effects you need. Also, it sounds as though you need to understand better how external effects interact with the Mustang and how/where to connect them in the signal chain with the Mustang. If you genuinely want assistance with this, please let us know all the external effects you're using and how you want them to interact with your amp.

Quote:
I'm just going to sell this Fender. What a mistake. Fender anything....never again

Well, that seems a shame. I hope the person who buys it has more success with it - many people do. And I hope you find the amp that works for you. If you do want to persist with the Mustang, and want to ask some polite questions here for assistance, there are plenty of people who'll be more than happy to help you get the best from the amp.

For example, there are several ways to obtain a volume boost (with or without distortion) within the Mustang itself, without needing an external pedal. Depending exactly what you want to achieve, I'm sure you'll get a few good suggestions once people better understand what you want to do.

And you mention you've put your Wah pedal in the fx-loop; most people find a Wah works better inline between the guitar and amp input. Have you tried that?


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:56 am
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:11 am
Posts: 299
I can understand the frustration some people might have when going from a traditional setup to working with a modeling amp like the Mustang. I'm not sure Fender has done a very good job of providing any kind of primer on how to best approach the world of modeling amps. But one's inability to understand and master the concepts of amp modeling isn't cause for assuming the amp is only useful for "living room cowboys" who can't deal with the old way of doing things.

The fact is, there are a number of folks like myself that came from 50 or so years of doing it the old way and transitioned just fine into the world of modeling amps, and are MUCH happier because of it. Yes, it takes some time to understand the concepts and rethink your approach, but in return your life gets MUCH simpler and predictable in terms of performance and setup.

I gig 52 weeks a year with my Mustang IV in venues ranging from large bars to outdoor festivals to concert halls with music styles ranging from metal to rock to country to jazz, blues and R&B. In fact the simplicity and accuracy of my tones in addressing this wide range of styles are such that the other guitarist in the group recently moved from his Fender SuperSonic to a Mustang as well, and he couldn't be happier.

I will say it's a bit disconcerting to leave behind all (or at least most of the pedals) I was using and place my trust in the built-in effects of the amp. And it was no small amount of effort in learning the behaviors and how to best tweak them to get what I wanted. But the payoff has been a much simpler setup (three cables from my pedalboard - four-button switch, two-button switch, and guitar cord - plus one cable from my acoustic sim pedal to the FOH mixer) and a ridiculously simple way to quickly transition between widely ranging sounds to match what's needed by any given song at the touch of a button.

Just because you're not willing to invest the time and energy to learn to master the technology doesn't mean it's not possible and that the amp is only good for non-working musicians who practice in their basements. The problem is not with the amp, it's with the player.

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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:13 am
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This is like somebody arguing that he only likes cars from the 50's because after that period, car seats were made cheap and uncomfortable... I guess if you can live with the myriad of problems that come with it, by all means go and get an old hot-rod :)

The other day I spent two hours at a guitarcenter and tried every tube amp around (fenders, marshalls and voxes particularly). Most of those overpriced amps using technology from 1940's have one or two nice spots in terms of features or tones, but that's all. They are simply too old school in terms of design and I would get bored pretty quickly, that is, if I ever decided to spend the boatload of money they cost.

The only amp that really got my attention was a Fender Supersonic, until I figured that I liked it because it was more versatile than the other prehistoric designs. I guess, when you get used to use cell-phones, going back to rotary phones seems awkward... particularly if the rotary phone in questions costs 1200$ :)


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:24 am
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jedi2b wrote:
I guess, when you get used to use cell-phones, going back to rotary phones seems awkward... particularly if the rotary phone in questions costs 1200$ :)

Yeah but nothing beats the tone and response of an old rotary phone. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:32 am
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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:02 pm
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:53 pm
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dunedindragon wrote:
The fact is, there are a number of folks like myself that came from 50 or so years of doing it the old way and transitioned just fine into the world of modeling amps, and are MUCH happier because of it. Yes, it takes some time to understand the concepts and rethink your approach, but in return your life gets MUCH simpler and predictable in terms of performance and setup.



Add me to that list, tho more like 40 years not 50. But yeah, if you can't realize it's value and how to make it work for you then you probably have an overly complicated way of getting your sound. I remember many years ago i was doing a gig and a guitar player for a famous band came in who was a friend of our key player. He looked at my rig and told me to dump 1/2 of all the toys and gadgets i was using. At the time i thought yeah, right buddy. Later i learned how right he was and began gigging with 1 clean boost pedal for solos and one single channel amp and 2 cords. Did that ever since and got the best sounds ever with plenty of versatility. The mustang can be used the same way, and in fact i do. How anyone would have a problem with it as far as versatility is beyond me. Theres plenty of options to get whatever you need, but if you have to have exactly to a T what you've had in the past and won't budge, nothing will make you happy except what you used before. If you have an open mind and learn the mustang, theres absolutely no compromises you should have to make beyond minor differences.


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:26 am
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jedi2b wrote:
Image

Yes!
<< RRIIIIIINNNNGG ! >> or in italian would be << DRRIIIIIINNN ! >> or << TRRIIIIII ! >>

:lol: :lol:

however it remains the best ringtone for a (cell)phone.

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:44 am
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:44 pm
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Location: Dayton, Ohio
MarkMarlatt wrote:
It seems that you just cannot use this amp if you expect any kind of versatility.
... If your a professional.......Fender has forgotten all about you.


You want "versatility," so you turn to Laney? Seriously? In your world, does the sun rise in the west and set in the east? :lol:

If "you're" a professional, chances are excellent that you have used or are using some kind of amp produced by Fender.

Come back when "you're" calmer ... :roll:


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:44 am
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To the OP - I found that a good way to achieve volume boost is to link the expression pedal to the amp volume and raise it as needed. It does require to have the exp-1 expression pedal though.


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:23 pm
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:37 am
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InkStained wrote:
You want "versatility," so you turn to Laney? Seriously? In your world, does the sun rise in the west and set in the east? :lol:

User has exactly 5 posts on this forum, 2 of the 5 dissing Fender products:

search.php?author_id=577073&sr=posts

And has been singing about "going back to Laney" for months: :roll:

MarkMarlatt wrote:
I'm going back to my older Laney amps.
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 12:11 am

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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:59 am
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strings10927 wrote:
InkStained wrote:
You want "versatility," so you turn to Laney? Seriously? In your world, does the sun rise in the west and set in the east? :lol:

User has exactly 5 posts on this forum, 2 of the 5 dissing Fender products:

search.php?author_id=577073&sr=posts

And has been singing about "going back to Laney" for months: :roll:

MarkMarlatt wrote:
I'm going back to my older Laney amps.
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 12:11 am



Must be a South Pole elf! I thought the OP was truly grumpy but it looks like he is just a grump. Good post Strings.


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:06 pm
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Dunedindragon:

+1, with an M3v2 and a floor modeler via the four-cable method, and all the I/O on the Mustang works as it should (you do have to select the correct Efx loop option). For me, more versatility than time on Earth allows.

Paj,
8^)


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:12 pm
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PajFender wrote:
Dunedindragon:

+1, with an M3v2 and a floor modeler via the four-cable method, and all the I/O on the Mustang works as it should (you do have to select the correct Efx loop option). For me, more versatility than time on Earth allows.

Paj,
8^)



Hey Pajfender,

Could you please share your 4 cable connectivity? I know of several setups but I'm always looking to try something new :)


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Post subject: Re: MustangV...Why bother with effects loop???
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:50 pm
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The short story: You need a modeler that's set up for it with amp loop I/O (DigiTech RP1000, Avid Eleven Rack, FractalAudio AXE FX, etc.), or a with an efx loop that is programmable and configurable (Roland GT-10, Line6 POD HD500, Mustang Floor, etc.). I have the DigiTech and Avid units, and for the past year-and-a-half, I've been using my M3v2 with an RP1000 via the 4CM on stage. The RP1000 I/O is set up beautifully for the 4CM (effect routed to the proper inputs, with programmable pre- options on a number post effects) and easily accommodates right-angle plugs (a convenient stage feature that not all floor modelers do). It has been working out for me so well on gigs* that I actually purchased a (used) RP1000 and another new M3v2 as backups and have them setup in my computer/rehearsal space for quick access and programming.

Here's what you get with the 4CM:
(a) what you setup on your floor modeler, or
(b) what you setup on your M3/4/5v2, or
(c) what you setup on your M3/4/5v2 plus the effects you can add from your modeler
("stomps" are routed to the M3v2 input and mods/delays, unless otherwise programmed, to the efx return)

Here's the standard 4CM (mfx amp loop) setup video from DigiTech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42EtqgHLeGs

Here's a video for the 4CM (mfx effects loop) setup for POD HD500(x):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7UDO8SM6NI

You could download the RP1000 manual if you need a static look at the cabling (p11).


I'm wireless (Sennheiser G3). I made myself 10-ft and 20-ft 4-cable looms with right-angle jacks on one end (from two 20-ft 3-packs from speakerrepair.com) and that pretty much covers everything.

NB: To insure that I always get a LoZ signal to the FOH mixer, and that it is the signal that is driving the M3v2 power amp, I use a DI box with a 1/4-inch thru/parallel input jack placed before the efx return on the M3v2. Not necessary, of course, if you're miking your amp or don't need reinforcement to your FOH mixer.

Paj
8^)

* . . . and now the story gets longer: I've found the M3V2 to be powerful, versatile, reliable, noise-free, and easy to transport. The projection from its open-back cabinet is as good as or better than any combo I've ever used---indoors and (surprise!) outdoors. It's my favorite Fender amp, ever. I've owned a pre-CBS Princeton and a pre-CBS Bassman, and a 70's Quad (a 4-12 Twin combo). I don't miss any of them now (except for the money I could make selling them to people who didn't have to live through/with that level of tech/features---It really wasn't all the-instant-you-plugged-in creamy-dreamy tone).

I understand the OP wanting to use what is familiar, comfortable, and feels will get the job done---that's a professional and intelligent approach. In spite of the condescending tone and insulting innuendo, I hope it works out for him and I wish him good luck---after all, as Billy Joel once noted when questioned about "making it" and his bar-gig days, " . . . any musician supporting himself is a miracle (paraphrased)." I hope he can check back with us after the gig and share some more insights with those us who have never taken the Vegas or casino stages, toured, did TV, radio or studio, played venues that could hold football fields, gig constantly, etc. And after the business insights, I can say that I'm already forming an opinion on how to vote with my $$$ for any media from the Vegas show, especially with the influence that patriotism and Made-In-America does have for me. Let me see, Googling Laney . . . oops! Well, England's a close ally . . .

In a cheap, cheap way, I feel better now.

I've been using modelers to perform with ever since the Johnson J-Station, and they have simplified my stage setups and made it easier to get a consistent sound. I prefer a modeler that has a "performance mode" that allows me to toggle effects on or off. Over the years, I've come to this approach: a few basic amps, well-tweaked (especially with regards to the gain-master settings), add effects as needed, and organize the sounds in stage-ready banks. I've found that a well-tweaked amp model can survive upgrades between and among manufacturers, even if you have to manually translate the settings. The amp models I rely on: Twin, Bassman, Princeton, AC30TB, JC-120, JM-800, JM-2000, JVM-45, Boogie, and an acoustic sim (or two). I've found that if you treat an amp model like an amp that you just brought home, you can spend ridiculous amounts of time but you will find out what it can do well (the amp models I mentioned above can cover a lot of bases). I've also come to realize that most factory presets, and the models themselves, ESPECIALLY for high-gain models, have the gain set WAY too high to end up being dynamic and useful on stage. Eventually, I get my stuff to the point where the only thing I need to adjust on my M3v2 is the Master Volume (which, by the way, is always a real joy to get beyond 3.5 for a real kick-a** old-school on-stage guitar amp feel).

What I can say is, I've had a year-and-a-half of trouble-free, noise-free, profitable fun gigging with my M3v2, and I haven't come anywhere near mastering all the possibilities/capabilities of the amp. GOOD JOB, FENDER. Make a USA-made version and cover it in tweed ( viewtopic.php?f=27&t=84487 ), and I would buy it and pay more for it.

8^)


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