It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:25 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:07 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:00 am
Posts: 8
I currently have a Mk1 Mustang 3. I use Cubase and/or Reaper for recording and unfortunately the Fender ASIO simply does not work with either of these DAWs (both 64 bit). So I was wondering whether it would be worth my while to trade the Mk1 in and get a Mk2 to take advantage of the DI outs?

So the question is simply is there speaker emulation on the DI outs, or are they post power amp? I guess I can always use Amplitube or Cubase Amp Rack to add a cabinet emulation on the fly if need be, but not an ideal solution.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:20 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
Hi,
they include the same speaker emulation you configured in your preset.
What you wil NOT have is the actual coloring of the mustang speaker itself.
So to make it short, to get in your DAW similar audio to what you would hear from your mustang speaker you can go two ways:

-go from mustang USB/XLR/unbalance/phones out to your DAW, and then inside your daw add a EQ effect, adjust this EQ to lower all frequencies above 1Khz (gradually from -1 dB to -6db or more at the high end) and add a gain of a couple db around 400 hz

-OR make your life easier and mic your mustang, then feed the mic output to your daw


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:28 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
The XLR outputs on the V2 Mustang amps do have speaker emulation. It is the 'same' speaker emulation as the rest of the preset - in the sense of 2x12, 4x12, etc.

However, the speaker emulation applied to the XLR outputs (and also to the USB output and the headphone output) is different to the emulation applied to the power amp and built-in speaker(s).

That is, the emulation used for the power amp is intended to make the amp's actual speaker sound like the emulated cab. The emulation applied to the XLR, USB, etc, signal is intended to make the signal sound like the emulated cab in a more generic way, independent of the amp's actual speaker.

In theory this is all good and correct - the right emulation is applied based on where the signal is going. However some people complain that the cab emulations through headphones etc don't sound right.

The upshot is: don't assume that the settings you like for the amp's own speaker will also be right (for you) when sending the signal through USB, XLR, etc. You may need to use different settings in this case. That shouldn't surprise you - as soon as one changes one aspect of the setup, others will almost always have to change to compensate.

This diagram shows the different signal paths and different emulations applied in the V2 amps:
http://support.fender.com/manuals/guita ... tsLoop.pdf

(This diagram was created by Fender for a slightly different reason, but is useful here as it shows all the relevant signal paths)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:02 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
an interesting side effect of what scott just explained is the following:

-set fx-loop position to "looper pedal"

-take the output from the fx-send: you will get the "cab emulation for speaker output" which IMO is a bit too harsh with not enough highs roll-off

-now, connect anything to the headphones out: as a side-effect, the output on the fx-send will change and now has the "cab emulation for phones", which is a lot closer to what you hear thru the mustang speakers, compared to the "cab emulation for speaker output": less highs and bit more mids

I never tried to see if the same change also applies to the XLRs and/or USB outs


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:01 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
Quote:
take the output from the fx-send: you will get the "cab emulation for speaker output" which IMO is a bit too harsh with not enough highs roll-off

This makes sense. The fx-send output isn't intended to be listened to directly - it's supposed to go through whatever effects are in the loop, back into the amp (fx-return) and thence to the power-amp and speaker. The frequency response of the amp's speaker then rolls-off the higher frequencies (as all guitar-amp speakers do) - so the cab emulation earlier in the signal chain didn't need to.

Quote:
as a side-effect, the output on the fx-send will change and now has the "cab emulation for phones", which is a lot closer to what you hear thru the mustang speakers, compared to the "cab emulation for speaker output": less highs and bit more mids

This also makes sense. When going through 'phones, the amp 'knows' the sound isn't going to benefit from the high-frequency roll-off from the speaker, so does that roll-off within the cab emulation, deliberately to make the sound 'right.'


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:49 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
jedi2b wrote:
-go from mustang USB/XLR/unbalance/phones out to your DAW, and then inside your daw add a EQ effect, adjust this EQ to lower all frequencies above 1Khz (gradually from -1 dB to -6db or more at the high end) and add a gain of a couple db around 400 hz


Hi Jedi,
i'm very interested to the matter of re-eq of the signal on a DAW (and i like to make my life harder also because i don't own a mic :lol: ) :
i use Adobe Audition 3 and for that purpose i think they are suitable the graphic equalizer (selectable type 10 or 20 or 30 bands and also the dB range of cut/boost ) or/and the parametric eq...

Could you share a more detailed setting of your typical eq compensation?

(by the way, i just tried your Dumble 100 OD clone preset : great job! the other "Dumble clean" preset of another user is very nice too, limited to a clean vintage tone )

Dimitri


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:53 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:00 am
Posts: 8
Thanks everyone for the information, this is exactly the stuff I wanted to find out about. Being able to run the emulated stereo output through Cubase or Reaper is the feature I was looking for. I currently use the headphone out on the Mk1, but it is not an ideal solution.

Miking the cab is not really an option for me in my little study, SWMBO would raise hell. :shock:

I think that I will upgrade to the Mk2, (should it be a 3 or a 4?) not only for the benefit of the DI outs, but also for the extra effects and the ability to load the latest patches.

Once again, thanks all. :D


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:31 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
Quote:
should it be a 3 or a 4?

Buy a '4' if you:
- want/need a stereo fx loop (the 3 has a mono loop); note both have stereo XLR line-outs
- want a 2x12 cabinet (for aesthetics or (perceived) sound reinforcement; note it doesn't really give a stereo sound stage even though it's wired as stereo, the speakers are too close together for this to be apparent)
- really need (or think it makes an audible difference) 150w rather than 100w

Buy a '3' if you don't need any of the above but want a physically smaller amp that is more easily portable. The '4' is lighter than some 2x12 combos, but is still heavy to lug around regularly.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:52 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
wiredtwerp wrote:

I think that I will upgrade to the Mk2, (should it be a 3 or a 4?) not only for the benefit of the DI outs, but also for the extra effects and the ability to load the latest patches.

Once again, thanks all. :D


Hi,
well, i guess you won't regret for various reasons:

1) the additional distorsions , amp models (e.g. the HiWatt model) and
2) the new platform at lower noise level (improvement expecially on clean tones), worth the upgrade.
3) I think many of us will agree, that feeling and realism is in a certain way even better than the version 1.
and
4) the stereo line outputs: XLR balanced .

i have the M3 V.2 (with 2, 4 button switches and EXP-1) and in the past i had M3 V.1.

Dimitri


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:54 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:00 am
Posts: 8
You're right Scott, of course, I don't need 150w, or a stereo FX loop. And I'm a bit tight on space, so a new 3 it is. 8)

Thanks for the sales reinforcement pitch Dimitri!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:00 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
:wink:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:08 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
Regarding the EQ settings to get the mustang 3 speaker response in your DAW, this is what I use:

-100hz = 0db
-200hz = +5dB
-400hz = +3db
-800hz = +3db
-1,6khz = 0db
-3,2khz = -3db
-6,4khz = -5db

overall level gain = unity

probably the high end would require some extra attenuation, give it a try and trust your ears (and post back your results!)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:16 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
thanx a lot!

Dimitri


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:08 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:00 am
Posts: 8
Well, I've got the amp now, and it is somewhat better than the Mk1 - sounds a lot richer. I've still got the Mk1, and will probably keep it.

I do have a problem with the DI outs though - the signal level - it's too high. On most presets it overloads my UR22 even with the preamps turned to minimum, and it does the same to my little mini Behringer mixer.

I have had a bit of a rummage, but it does not seem possible to alter the DI output level, which is a bit of a pain. I'm going to try it on my live PA mixer and see if I get the same result.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: XLR outputs on the Mk2 - do they have speaker emulation?
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:32 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
You CAN change output levels in both the mustang floor and mustang v2. Check the utils menu on v2 and the external level knob on the floor


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: