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Post subject: Mustang Floor - Pitch problem when combining Chours & Delay
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:40 am
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Hi! I have been using the Mustang Floor pedal live for a while and I am quite happy with it. I am very conservative - have found a very nice clean Vox type of sound which I use as a base for adding delay, reverb, compression and chorus. Sometimes when tapping the delay tempo and then adding chorus the pedal responds with some sort of pitch shifting sound - totally unusable. I haven't been able to work out which combination of foot tapping triggers this - but it happens on a regular basis and I can't get rid of it. Any suggestions would be welcome, please?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Floor - Pitch problem when combining Chours & De
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:26 am
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First things to do:

1. Look in FUSE and tell us what effects parameter is assigned to the pedal, for the preset you're using. (NB CTRL-E in FUSE opens the EXP-1 settings window, if you don't already know that).

2. What effect/parameter do you want the pedal to control (if different from what (1) above shows you it's set to)?

3. Exactly what effects, with what parameters, are you using when this occurs? I think the problem is most likely a mis-configured pedal as per 1 and 2 above; or if not, it could be some subtle interplay of modulation settings across different effects.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Floor - Pitch problem when combining Chours & De
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:34 am
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Others may correct/refute me...but fwiw...

This could be a natural artifact of how delay devices work...or, at least, I've observed something very similar...in both real-world delays as well as within FUSE.

When you change the delay time the shifting intervals appear to cause a pitch change...similar to a Doppler Effect (Yes, I said similar, not exactly...) as the delayed signal becomes later or earlier, the pitch appears to decrease or increase. Once you stop changing the delay time, the pitch shift disappears.

When engaging the tap-delay function, the software may impose a similar delay shift, which is perceived as a pitch shift.

Interestingly,this is exactly what Chorus does, it varies the delay of signal which causes a varying pitch shift. The two effects may be conspiring to create a more pronounced effect when engaged?

Perhaps...

Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Floor - Pitch problem when combining Chours & De
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:02 pm
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Hey Joe is right.
It is the delay going momentarily into a self oscillation.
It is generally highly sought after.

I don't think it is a natural aspect of digital delays tho. With digital delays it depends on the coding... or whether the code creator wanted to allow it to occur or not.

The Fender Floor seems to do this extra well.
My Vox DelayLab does it, but to a much lesser degree...
My Zoom G3 doesn't do it at all

I was a little put off by it at first, but actually began to like it quite a lot!
I wish Fender would update a firmware so as to allow the Floor to accept tap tempo while the delays are bypassed. I think would give a somewhat balanced trade off to both camps.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Floor - Pitch problem when combining Chorus & De
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:04 am
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Well - thank you for all your input :-)
The "Dopler" theory is interesting - it is without a doubt some kind of interference between the chorus and the delay effects. The problem is that it won't go away without restarting the pedal - which is a irritating in the middle of a song.
I will post more when I figure out what happens.
Greetings from Denmark,
Peter


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Floor - Pitch problem when combining Chorus & De
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:23 am
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blohmdk wrote:
The problem is that it won't go away without restarting the pedal - which is a irritating in the middle of a song.



Interesting detail I didn't notice in the first read.

In my experience, the pitch change goes away when I'm done twidling with the delay time. And with chorus, it is part of the effect, but the effect is small.

If it were a tap-delay setting on an hardware effect, I might expect to hear a swosh of pitch as the delay moved to the new setting, but afterwards it should be back to normal. Not sure why the software would be not managing registers and output correctly.

Could you post a sound clip of what you are hearing? It would be good to hear the pitch range you are suffering...

It could be some kind of software 'glitch' that isn't properly setting the DSP registers...

Or...something else.

_________________
1967 Epiphone Madrid EC-30
1975 Fender Stratocaster
1981 Rickenbacker 360
2002 BC Rich Bich
2007 Fender Standard Stratocaster
2012 Taylor GA3-12
2012 Squier Telecaster
2017 Les Paul Kit


"Make every song you sing your favorite tune."


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Floor - Pitch problem when combining Chours & De
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:10 pm
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Also, for clarification, let me ask you a few questions.

Because the Floor allows you to use the Tap Tempo to adjust the delay or the mod (if the delay is not engaged. It defaults to adjusting the delay when engaged).

In your description, it sounds like you have the delay active and change the tempo, then activate the modulation. Is that correct?

Or do you have both the mod and delay active when tapping the new tempo?.

What is the feedback level of the delay?
Sometimes a high value here can cause problems when adjusting the tempo.

Have you tried taking one of the two out of the chain and then put them back in and reapply your settings?

Do you still get this anomaly when you change the tempo without passing sound through the unit?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Floor - Pitch problem when combining Chours & De
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:07 pm
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to the OP, if you can post your preset to FUSE we can download it to check what's going on, otherwise a lot of conspiracy theories could arise!


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