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Post subject: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:39 am
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My current set up has a volume pedal on my direct input and then I use the Mustang III's effects loop to run a Boss DD-7, TC HOF reverb, and Throne Room tremolo in addition to whatever preset I am using on the Mustang. However, I am wondering about adding an overdrive... have read mixed reviews about the sound of an overdrive with solid state amps so just wondering if anyone has had good success with them on a Mustang? I play Christian worship style music so no need for any heavy distortion or anything, just want a nice solid tone for both rhythm and lead. Thanks!

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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:44 am
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I got the Joyo Ultimate drive and love it. I got it because it was 30 bucks and I couldn’t see spending as much on a pedal as I did for the amp (I have a Mustang II). It has a very wide range of gain from very subtle all the way up to thick Rat-ish tone. Best 30 bucks I ever spent on a pedal and I can honestly say If I could only operate with the footswitch and the ultimate drive I’d be fine. I still would like to find a good fuzz for this amp though. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:58 am
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I play in a worship band also...

+1 on the Joyo ultimate drive! I loved mine until it crapped out.
I can't really blame that on the pedal tho... I somehow manage to end up with a faulty switch on nearly EVERY piece of gear I buy :O

I have found (IMHO) that the 57 deluxe model on the mustang floor takes outboard OD's better than any of the other modes...
...but that could also have to do with my monitor of choice too.
YMMV

I should say OD's with only a single tone control that is...

I have also used a Bad Monkey with good results but it has a bass and treble control.

This is what currently seems to cover all my needs...
I need to replace the piano sustain pedal to something smaller... it was just what I had handy at the time ;) It controls tempo for the G3
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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:58 am
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Nice setup. I love the Sustain pedal.

How is the Fuzz Face and Muff on the Zoom? i've been thinking of something like that rather than try a hundred fuzz pedals.

I figure i might have better luck with something like that.

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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:05 pm
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Working with my M2, I've had good success with the variety of pedals I have...

Big Muff, TS808, Ross compressor, and a few others.

The key seems to be keeping from overdriving the amp input. According to the TSL folk, the M2 is willing to accept signals up to about 1.2V...beyond that, you're listening to a lot of crackle and not much else. I'd expect the whole series to have similar input stages.

I've found I can get a variety of crunchy to bad-a$$ sounds with the gain/sustain/tone knobs, then back off the pedal's level control and make up for the voume on the amp Master Volume control.

Like all things Mustang...it does take some experimenting and careful listening.

The other key seems to be only use external booster-type pedals with clean amp models...I favor the 65 Deluxe Reverb with the 2x12C speakers...ymmv.

Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:20 am
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Quote:
wondering about adding an overdrive... have read mixed reviews about the sound of an overdrive with solid state amps

This (from HeyJoe42 above) is the important bit:
Quote:
The key seems to be keeping from overdriving the amp input

So-called "overdrive" pedals can be split into two categories, and this is why you will have read mixed reviews - whether they work well with solid-state amps depends on which category of pedal you use.

The first, genuine overdrive pedals, boost the input signal. Their job isn't to distort the sound (at least, not much), but to deliberately overdrive the amplifier's pre-amp stages to create distortion. This only works with valve/tube amps. It will not create a good sound with solid-state amps (whether analogue or digital/modelling).

The second type of pedal creates all the distortion internally, and outputs a distorted signal with little (if any) overall boost to the signal level (ie this type of pedal tries to emulate an overdriven valve sound, without actually overdriving the amp). This type of pedal will work with any amp, valve* or solid-state. This is the type of pedal you should use with your Mustang - although from my own experience I'd strongly recommend experimenting further with the overdrive effects and amp-model gain structures built-in to the Mustang amps, you can get a very wide range of sounds without the need for external pedals.

(* off-topic: but it does bemuse me why someone with a valve amp, who's presumably bought it for genuine valve tone, would then negate that with a solid-state overdrive pedal!)


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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:52 am
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scott-uk wrote:
- although from my own experience I'd strongly recommend experimenting further with the overdrive effects and amp-model gain structures built-in to the Mustang amps, you can get a very wide range of sounds without the need for external pedals.


I'm with you on this one. From my experience I end up with a much more predictable and controllable sound using the internal effects. Not to mention the possibility of knobs getting moved or jostled about when you move external pedals. I do use a couple of external effects for which there aren't any comparable built-in effects such as a Harmony Man (3 part harmonies), acoustic guitar simulator, and a POG (Leslie organ sounds). Other than that I haven't felt I'm missing out on anything given the versatility of the built-in effects.

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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:59 am
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captainc wrote:
Nice setup. I love the Sustain pedal.

How is the Fuzz Face and Muff on the Zoom? i've been thinking of something like that rather than try a hundred fuzz pedals.

I figure i might have better luck with something like that.


...Welllll.... I am not a big fan of fuzz pedals...
ergo I am not too crazy about the g3s fuzzes...
So I a would not be the best person to ask... sorry.

I use the g3 for delay and modulation mostly.


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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:51 am
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dunedindragon wrote:
scott-uk wrote:
- although from my own experience I'd strongly recommend experimenting further with the overdrive effects and amp-model gain structures built-in to the Mustang amps, you can get a very wide range of sounds without the need for external pedals.


I'm with you on this one. From my experience I end up with a much more predictable and controllable sound using the internal effects. Not to mention the possibility of knobs getting moved or jostled about when you move external pedals. I do use a couple of external effects for which there aren't any comparable built-in effects such as a Harmony Man (3 part harmonies), acoustic guitar simulator, and a POG (Leslie organ sounds). Other than that I haven't felt I'm missing out on anything given the versatility of the built-in effects.

For me external pedals make sense for 3 reasons

1. I’m a Mustang II user so in order to swap presets on the fly I’m limited to 2 presets via the single footswitch stomp. Thus I’m not getting to use the internal effects as much as I’d like in the practical sense and a few external pedals allows me to make the most out of the two presets. This to me is where Line 6 has the mustang line beat. You can get a pretty robust foot controller that connects via Ethernet to any model in the line even the $99 model and it has an expression pedal. I would love to see fender include something like that on say the V.3’s but eventually when the money starts flowing in like leaves on an autumn breeze, I’ll either be getting a Mustang III or a 65’ Princeton or Deluxe Reissue

2. I don’t care for the Fuzz stomps on the mustang. The original Fuzz is ok, and I’ve gotten to like it a little better when paired with the right model but I’m not a fan of the Big Fuzz. I have yet to make that sound the way I want. I’ve had better luck with my muff clone but as mentioned above some pedals are not suited for this type of amp, I think Fuzz falls in that category but I keep searching. I also found my Rat to be slightly smoother sounding than the ‘Black Box’ to my ears so that pedal has worked well for me. I also like looking down and just seeing my pedals right there in the flesh but that’s me.

3. Stacking pedals is not possible. Would love to be able to use the 65 Twin or deluxe with an OD and a Compressor stomp. Maybe in a future release.

Had I known I was going to love this amp so much, I’d have traded in my GT6 and put it towards the Mustang III at the time of my purchase. The Mustang II was supposed to just give me something to amplify and Augment my GT6. But it has one hell of a tractor beam and sucked me right in.

This guy does some cool things with a mustang I and a modest pedal setup. If you don’t like Eric Johnson then you may not care for the tones but I was pretty impressed with how he makes use of basically one preset. I really like that Fulltone Fuzz too.


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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:58 am
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I too am on a Worship Team, however I haven't messed with using external stomp boxes with my MIII. You might find that the Super Sonic Burn with a compressor stomp model in front of it could handle all your OD needs. It may take some time using Fuse to get "just that sound" but it could simplify your life and budget if you can get the right sound out of your Mustang alone. These Mustang amps capabilities have just blown me away and I've been playing since the 60's :o)


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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:41 am
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captainc wrote:




^^^^^
THIS was awesome!!!


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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:58 am
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Lynn Nicholson wrote:
I too am on a Worship Team, however I haven't messed with using external stomp boxes with my MIII. You might find that the Super Sonic Burn with a compressor stomp model in front of it could handle all your OD needs. It may take some time using Fuse to get "just that sound" but it could simplify your life and budget if you can get the right sound out of your Mustang alone. These Mustang amps capabilities have just blown me away and I've been playing since the 60's :o)

You guys must attend some pretty rocking churches... Pastor Brett has an acoustic at my local church LOL

mojo_plasma wrote:

^^^^^
THIS was awesome!!!


Indeed. I've been chasing the Violin tones on my mustang... One day I'll get it. :D

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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:10 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
wondering about adding an overdrive... have read mixed reviews about the sound of an overdrive with solid state amps

This (from HeyJoe42 above) is the important bit:
Quote:
The key seems to be keeping from overdriving the amp input

So-called "overdrive" pedals can be split into two categories, and this is why you will have read mixed reviews - whether they work well with solid-state amps depends on which category of pedal you use.

The first, genuine overdrive pedals, boost the input signal. Their job isn't to distort the sound (at least, not much), but to deliberately overdrive the amplifier's pre-amp stages to create distortion. This only works with valve/tube amps. It will not create a good sound with solid-state amps (whether analogue or digital/modelling).

The second type of pedal creates all the distortion internally, and outputs a distorted signal with little (if any) overall boost to the signal level (ie this type of pedal tries to emulate an overdriven valve sound, without actually overdriving the amp). This type of pedal will work with any amp, valve* or solid-state. This is the type of pedal you should use with your Mustang - although from my own experience I'd strongly recommend experimenting further with the overdrive effects and amp-model gain structures built-in to the Mustang amps, you can get a very wide range of sounds without the need for external pedals.

(* off-topic: but it does bemuse me why someone with a valve amp, who's presumably bought it for genuine valve tone, would then negate that with a solid-state overdrive pedal!)


Yep- that's the way I see it, too. I always went for category 2- because I wanted a dirt pedal that could give me the dirty sounds I craved at the same low volume that allowed me to continue living in the same apartment.

Cat1 would simply act as a volume boost under those conditions- I'm nowhere near to running out of headroom!

Of course, I also heavily researched amps and pedals and how they worked before actually buying any. As all 3 of my guitar amps are full on modellers, or have a solid state pre-amp, I knew that trying to boost my way into overdrive would be useless- there are no tubes TO scream. I also demo'd every pedal I could on both tube and modellers in the store- and got the expected results. Pedals like TS's, Green Rhino, etc did nothing useful for me- they just took me from reasonable demo volume to blowing me off the stool volume. On my Mustang, the one time I tried the crank the level knob method, I actually got QUIETER, no extra drive either just more compression. I believe I overdrove the input, and an internal limiter kicked in-before I fried something. (that pedal has 26 db of boost)

However, pedals like the following-which I own and use with my MIII- work well.

Fulltone OCD- it's a hybrid OD/dist, with a LOT of it's own gain. Like the Joyo mentioned above (which is a clone of this, I believe), it'll go from very light drive to all out roar, just by adjusting the gain knob. You can switch between high peak and low peak mode, too for a different voicing. A "permanent" part of my rig.

MXR '78 Distortion. This is actually a fairly low gain distortion- on a squeaky clean model like the '65 twin, you really have to push it to get much distortion. It does, however, add that hot, cranked amp vibe to your sound. (It's supposed to be a Marshall stack-in-a-box kind of sound) Into an already dirty amp, it'll kick you into the next level. Works well with dirty modeller presets, too. The second half of my "permanent" dirt set up.

Boss Blues Driver- my second favorite drive pedal!
TC Electronics MojoMojo overdrive.
Fulltone Plimsoul
MXR Modified OD
MXR Classic Distortion.

The jury is still out on the Way Huge Swollen Pickle fuzz I own. I really haven't taken the time to figure it out yet. It's easy to get an ugly sound out of it, if you aren't careful with the filter or scoop controls! Sounds excellent through my class D bass amp, though.

Since someone mentioned a fulltone fuzz, I tried-and was BLOWN away by- the '69 Fuzz they make. It was through a Blues Deluxe in the store, not my Mustang. Wow, made me rethink entirely what a fuzz was used for. It was going to leave with me, but I bought the LP I was using to demo it, instead!


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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:25 am
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captainc wrote:
dunedindragon wrote:
scott-uk wrote:
- although from my own experience I'd strongly recommend experimenting further with the overdrive effects and amp-model gain structures built-in to the Mustang amps, you can get a very wide range of sounds without the need for external pedals.


I'm with you on this one. From my experience I end up with a much more predictable and controllable sound using the internal effects. Not to mention the possibility of knobs getting moved or jostled about when you move external pedals. I do use a couple of external effects for which there aren't any comparable built-in effects such as a Harmony Man (3 part harmonies), acoustic guitar simulator, and a POG (Leslie organ sounds). Other than that I haven't felt I'm missing out on anything given the versatility of the built-in effects.

For me external pedals make sense for 3 reasons

1. I’m a Mustang II user so in order to swap presets on the fly I’m limited to 2 presets via the single footswitch stomp. Thus I’m not getting to use the internal effects as much as I’d like in the practical sense and a few external pedals allows me to make the most out of the two presets. This to me is where Line 6 has the mustang line beat. You can get a pretty robust foot controller that connects via Ethernet to any model in the line even the $99 model and it has an expression pedal. I would love to see fender include something like that on say the V.3’s but eventually when the money starts flowing in like leaves on an autumn breeze, I’ll either be getting a Mustang III or a 65’ Princeton or Deluxe Reissue

2. I don’t care for the Fuzz stomps on the mustang. The original Fuzz is ok, and I’ve gotten to like it a little better when paired with the right model but I’m not a fan of the Big Fuzz. I have yet to make that sound the way I want. I’ve had better luck with my muff clone but as mentioned above some pedals are not suited for this type of amp, I think Fuzz falls in that category but I keep searching. I also found my Rat to be slightly smoother sounding than the ‘Black Box’ to my ears so that pedal has worked well for me. I also like looking down and just seeing my pedals right there in the flesh but that’s me.

3. Stacking pedals is not possible. Would love to be able to use the 65 Twin or deluxe with an OD and a Compressor stomp. Maybe in a future release.

Had I known I was going to love this amp so much, I’d have traded in my GT6 and put it towards the Mustang III at the time of my purchase. The Mustang II was supposed to just give me something to amplify and Augment my GT6. But it has one hell of a tractor beam and sucked me right in.

This guy does some cool things with a mustang I and a modest pedal setup. If you don’t like Eric Johnson then you may not care for the tones but I was pretty impressed with how he makes use of basically one preset. I really like that Fulltone Fuzz too.



Do you mean stacking pedals on the amp/in Fuse or in front of the Mustang? (Yeah I am real newbie at these Things :oops: )


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Post subject: Re: Overdrive pedals with MIII
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:18 pm
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Quote:
Do you mean stacking pedals on the amp/in Fuse or in front of the Mustang?

There are limitations on stacking pedals in the amp. You can have a total of four effects, only one from each category (stomp, mod, delay and reverb). Plus the amp model itself, of course. On the amp, there is a fixed order for these effects (stomp before the amp model, the others after it). With FUSE, you can put the effects in any order, before or after the amp model. But you can still only have one each of the four categories. That is the limitation being referred to.

With real pedals outside the amp (either between guitar and amp input, or in the amp's fx loop), you can stack as many as you want, to create whatever sound you want. The amp doesn't know or care what you're doing there. Obviously, more pedals adds more noise and risks degrading signal quality, but nothing stops you doing it.


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