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Post subject: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 4:28 pm
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I recently got a Mustang III v2 red limited edition. The presets with with high gain has a high hissing sound at lower levels. Is this normal?

Take for example preset 00 Liquid Solo with a gain of 7.5 and volume at 8.0
with nothing connected to the amp except the power cord.

if I put a decibel meter directly in front of the speaker I will have volumes of:

38db on master volume 1
52db on master volume 2
63db on master volume 3

With a guitar connected its is even higher. 38db seems to be the lowest the amp can be at any preset when its turned on.

is this normal?

The company I bought it from also didn't send me any foot switch and that it wasn't included in the Mustang III v2 even though it says so in the manual and everywhere on the internet. The amp were supposed to be new but it was dusty and did not include the original packaging either. :-/


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 5:22 pm
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Ond wrote:
The company I bought it from

If you don't mind saying ... what company was that?

Your Fender Mustang III is absolutely supposed to come with a 2-button footswitch.


As far as the hiss, I've never measured the hiss from my amp like that, so I can't compare. But it has never seemed excessive to me, taking into account the settings and models used in each preset.

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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 5:44 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
Ond wrote:
The company I bought it from

If you don't mind saying ... what company was that?



I got bought it from http://www.guitarzone.co.uk/

I will do some more measurement tomorrow with a guitar. But if I turn up the master to level 3 without anything connected on setting 00 the noise level is probably similar to a normal TV program.


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 5:50 pm
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I'm not familiar with Guitar Zone, but it sure sounds like they sold you something someone else opened and then returned. I would send/bring that back and get it exchanged.

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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:43 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I'm not familiar with Guitar Zone, but it sure sounds like they sold you something someone else opened and then returned. I would send/bring that back and get it exchanged.

+1

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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:02 pm
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Agree, exchange for a new one.
About high gain....
Yes.... you're going to get that hissing sound... it's normal... high gain and single coils makes for a noisy experience.

The good news... once you start playing the hiss will get buried... you won't hear it... it's going to be present when you're not playing... that can be annoying but.. comes with the territory with single coil pups.

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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:49 am
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Strat-Slinger wrote:
Agree, exchange for a new one.
About high gain....
Yes.... you're going to get that hissing sound... it's normal... high gain and single coils makes for a noisy experience.

The good news... once you start playing the hiss will get buried... you won't hear it... it's going to be present when you're not playing... that can be annoying but.. comes with the territory with single coil pups.


The amp makes this sound when nothing is connected to it. I tried to connect it direct outlets in the house also. Does your amp sound a lot even though nothing is connected to it on liquid solo 00 setting? I probably can't exchange it since it is a limited model.

strings10927 wrote:
I'm not familiar with Guitar Zone, but it sure sounds like they sold you something someone else opened and then returned. I would send/bring that back and get it exchanged.


I'm realizing now that:
http://www.guitarzone.co.uk/ have a showroom so my guess is that they had it in there since the release 14 months ago. It was a bit dusty when I got it. They lost the foot switch and just sent me the stuff they still had.

Q: should the sound quality of an average amp in a guitar store be worse than a new one?

I imported it from England to get a limited Red version and only the delivery was over 100$ plus a premium for the amp. The limited edition where only made in around 200 copies and looks great. This is seemed to be the last one left in Europe. It is also my first amp so I know nothing about how they should sound. I live in Sweden far away from the nearest fender dealer so I can't just go to listen to one easily. The sound the amp makes could be normal but I have no idea.

I would be very greatful if I could determine if the was OK or broken.


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:43 am
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In terms of the noise you're hearing... this is probably normal. My Mustang does it too and others have reported the same. Remember, the Mustang is emulating a real, analogue amplifier. For an accurate emulation, it tries to re-create the sound of the original amp exactly - including the flaws and noise of the original. This has been discussed in other topics - personally, I'd prefer it if Fender had chosen to 'improve' on the original amps by emulating the desirable tone but not the undesirable noise!

To check this on your amp: select a 'clean' amp model: British 60s or Fender Twin spring to mind. Turn the gain to zero, turn off all effects (stomp, mod, delay, reverb), and set the preset volume to about 7. Now with the amp's Master Volume (the physical knob on the amp, not the virtual Master Volume that some of the amp models have within them) set to 3 or 4, there should only be a slight background hiss coming from the speaker, nothing more than that.

In terms of the missing footswitch. If you bought the amp described as "new" then you are absolutely entitled to receive all the correct parts, and absolutely within your rights to return the amp as "not matching description" (or somesuch legal words). Unless the product description explicitly stated that the amp was unboxed and missing its accessories, you had every right to assume that a "new" product would include all the items that are part of its standard specification. That's certainly the way consumer law works in UK, and as far as I'm aware, also applies to goods bought in one EU country and shipped to another EU country.

However, given the shipping costs and the fact you want the red amp which may now be unavailable, a more practical course of action than returning the amp may be to ask (insist!) that the retailer either obtain and send you the correct footswitch, or refund you what it will cost you to buy one elsewhere. (Or if the description on the website where you bought it did say parts were missing, but you missed that, then unfortunately you will have no claim against the retailer.)

For completeness, the amp should also have come with the quick-start manual, mains lead, USB cable and footswitch cable. If you don't have any of these, my thoughts are: you can download the manuals; if you bought from UK then the UK mains lead wouldn't be useful to you anyway; a USB cable and footswitch cable are easily/cheaply available locally to you, I hope. (For the footswitch cable, a standard guitar cable will work). So these are probably less critical to worry about. Note the amps don't come with a software CD any more, all the software is now download-only. I mention as originally a CD was included and some documentation makes reference to it, which makes people worry they're missing something important, you're not, you can download everything you need.


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:41 am
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Higher gain = Higher noise, even on my other amps, the one that doesnt do noise have some kind of noise gate built-in.

Buy a noisegate or fiddle around with the noise gate on the mustang.


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 7:04 am
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scott-uk wrote:
In terms of the noise you're hearing... this is probably normal. My Mustang does it too and others have reported the same. Remember, the Mustang is emulating a real, analogue amplifier. For an accurate emulation, it tries to re-create the sound of the original amp exactly - including the flaws and noise of the original. This has been discussed in other topics - personally, I'd prefer it if Fender had chosen to 'improve' on the original amps by emulating the desirable tone but not the undesirable noise!

To check this on your amp: select a 'clean' amp model: British 60s or Fender Twin spring to mind. Turn the gain to zero, turn off all effects (stomp, mod, delay, reverb), and set the preset volume to about 7. Now with the amp's Master Volume (the physical knob on the amp, not the virtual Master Volume that some of the amp models have within them) set to 3 or 4, there should only be a slight background hiss coming from the speaker, nothing more than that.


Thats good to hear. I agree that it seems odd to a beginner to the guitar/amp world like me who has a master in electrical engineering, but if that is what people want :-/

There is only a little buzzing sound if I follow your instructions so I guess it is ok then! At master volume 5 the hissing sound is pretty loud but I guess thats normal.

scott-uk wrote:
In terms of the missing footswitch. If you bought the amp described as "new" then you are absolutely entitled to receive all the correct parts, and absolutely within your rights to return the amp as "not matching description" (or somesuch legal words). Unless the product description explicitly stated that the amp was unboxed and missing its accessories, you had every right to assume that a "new" product would include all the items that are part of its standard specification. That's certainly the way consumer law works in UK, and as far as I'm aware, also applies to goods bought in one EU country and shipped to another EU country.

However, given the shipping costs and the fact you want the red amp which may now be unavailable, a more practical course of action than returning the amp may be to ask (insist!) that the retailer either obtain and send you the correct footswitch, or refund you what it will cost you to buy one elsewhere. (Or if the description on the website where you bought it did say parts were missing, but you missed that, then unfortunately you will have no claim against the retailer.)


I took a photo of the site and it didn't say anything about a used product. They had just copy pasted the information from fender. The consumer laws are very strict in sweden and they could in worst case be blacklisted if the don't comply with swedish "konsumentombudsman". But I guess they just didn't realize that they forgot to include the missing items. Its a little disingenuous to sell used products for a full price. I personally bought my current speakers for less than half price when they had been used as demo speakers in the store.

scott-uk wrote:
For completeness, the amp should also have come with the quick-start manual, mains lead, USB cable and footswitch cable. If you don't have any of these, my thoughts are: you can download the manuals; if you bought from UK then the UK mains lead wouldn't be useful to you anyway; a USB cable and footswitch cable are easily/cheaply available locally to you, I hope. (For the footswitch cable, a standard guitar cable will work). So these are probably less critical to worry about. Note the amps don't come with a software CD any more, all the software is now download-only. I mention as originally a CD was included and some documentation makes reference to it, which makes people worry they're missing something important, you're not, you can download everything you need.


The thing I got with the amp was a manual and one power cable. No usb cable or foot switch : (
I guess I just ask them politely again to send the things included. If still nothing happens just let my lawyers and konsumentombudsmannen handle it. Maybe fender can help could help people in that situation.

Big thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:13 am
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I was looking for a 4-button footswitch on E-Bay recently and came across a couple of listings for the 2-button switch in which the sellers stated variations of the reason the they were removing them from demo model boxes and "forgetting" to provide them when they were sold.


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 2:40 pm
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I'll post it again for the OP. This is my amp with nothing connected to it (listen with headphones if you can, the iPhone mic isn't the greatest for this). #26 Europa, #35 and #59 adn #63 especially are laughable. If you tried to use those live, your bandmates would yank the amp's AC cord out of the wall and send you home.



Hwasser wrote:
Buy a noisegate or fiddle around with the noise gate on the mustang.


Neither is a great solution as the noise is generated in the amp. These sounds happen with nothing connected to the amp. An external noise gate just prevents more noise entering the amp. The Mustang's internal noise gate eats up one effect slot and doesn't mute the noise when playing a note which is pretty annoying when using headphones.

The only viable solution I could come up with was to pick and choose amp/effect combinations that were less noisy. I have about 10-12 presets I'm happy with and I stick to those. I've said it before here... this is a DSP amp, the option for near-zero noise amp modelling should be available and easily implemented in the digital realm.


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:13 pm
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Quote:
Quote:
Buy a noisegate or fiddle around with the noise gate on the mustang.

Neither is a great solution as the noise is generated in the amp. These sounds happen with nothing connected to the amp. An external noise gate just prevents more noise entering the amp.

For noise generated inside the amp: put the external noisegate in the amp's fx loop, rather than between the guitar and the amp input.

Quote:
The Mustang's internal noise gate eats up one effect slot and doesn't mute the noise when playing a note

Err, no. The Mustang's noise gate is a property of each amp model, it doesn't use up an effect slot.

Also, what you describe is the way all noise gates work: when the sound level is below some threshold (ie when no note is being played), they shut off the signal. When the sound level rises above the threshold (ie a note is being played), they let the signal pass. The noise gate isn't doing anything clever or trying to remove the noise from the audio signal: all it does is turn the whole signal on or off.


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Post subject: Re: Noise levels in the Mustang III v2 at a high gain preset
Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:02 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
Err, no. The Mustang's noise gate is a property of each amp model, it doesn't use up an effect slot.


Sorry my bad. I was thinking about the Fuse interface and got mixed up with the AmpliTube interface. :oops:


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