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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 6:37 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Well, if you can afford it, buy the Tone King!

But keep the Mustang, too- for all those other sounds it can make. Those of us who cut our amp teeth on modellers like the Mustang get spoiled for options. No matter how good a tube amp might be, it is still wired to have a specific range of sounds. If that's the tone you want, great! if you want that AND something very different too, it's time to break out the wallet and buy one that does that.

I've been where you are- lusting after that "toob" sound. There's no getting around it- they sound great. For us Fender guys, a good Fender tube amp is the benchmark we judge amps by. ( Fender based amps, like the Tone King line, included) However, they do come with their challenges- not the least of which is $$$, the fact that certain sounds ONLY come with earth shaking volume ( for those who like those warm, just on the edge tones. and play at home, with neighbors on the other side of a wall...), and that many of them are heavy.

I found it's easier to master the Mustang's learning curve if you concentrate on one model at a time. Learn the insides of how it works, how it reacts to YOUR guitars and playing, and how to dial it in to YOUR taste. Other people's presets are just that- other people's. I make a preset for me- using my guitar(s), my playing, my ears, and my effects- in my playing space. If I uploaded it, and you tried it, it may sound totally different. You might even think it sucks badly. Once you've figured out one model, inc saving presets to the amp, and using the extra options, the rest of the models get a LOT easier to understand!

For example: I mainly stick to the '59 Bassman for drives and warm bluesy cleans, and use the '65 twin reverb for my cleans. I'm continually astonished at just what I can do with that Bassman model, how well it works with my pedals, and how great it can sound. Changing guitars makes a world of difference- the Musty really lets your guitar shine through. I can get a VERY deep, warm sounding "just barely crunch" with lots of touch sensitivity, body, and feel. And I can do it w/o getting myself evicted from noise complaints. As much as I LOVE the tone I get with a Blues Deluxe or Super Sonic 60, neither will do that last bit! That doesn't stop me from drooling over them whenever I'm in the store, nor does it stop me from lusting after a Tone King.

Enough of my rambling...

Hope that was helpful.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:42 pm
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Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

I just downloaded a crap load more presets, some good but most not to my liking. I'm not very happy with my M-III at the moment. it's a shame because I've read all the reviews and it's a good and capable amp. But as has been pointed out it's a modeling amp so it's going to rely on presets or the right inputs to get it to sound right. I think I need to check out those links and learn to do it myself . Who better to know what sounds good than yourself, right? :)


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:06 am
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I am willing to concede the possibility that my hearing isn't as good as some but I honestly don't believe tube amps are better sounding that solid state amps. I've been playing for decades and I've played good and bad versions of both types.

Even if tube circuitry is better than SS the difference is so nuanced that there is no way I could justify the enormous price increase for a quality tube amp over SS.

Disclaimer: This is only opinion and I have never played professionally.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:45 pm
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Thank you p90sdude.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:50 am
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Codeseven wrote:
Thank you p90sdude.

Your welcome but, all I did was provide a few links, the real credit belongs to jedi2b and the other people who actually contributed the content.

Read that "Saturated vs Overdriven" page again - good stuff!


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 11:21 am
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p90sdude wrote:
Codeseven wrote:
Thank you p90sdude.

Your welcome but, all I did was provide a few links, the real credit belongs to jedi2b and the other people who actually contributed the content.

Read that "Saturated vs Overdriven" page again - good stuff!


Will do, thanks again.

I just want to get the most out of a capable amp and so far I'm not.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:28 am
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Codeseven wrote:
I just want to get the most out of a capable amp and so far I'm not.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by "getting the most out of a capable amp" though...

What is it that you are expecting to achieve? Be as explicit as you can.

It may be time to start a new thread.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:41 am
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I use a Bugera 333XL for those ultra-tight modern metal tones and other heavy stuff and the mustang V v.2 for the rest (clean, crunch etc).


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:07 am
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p90sdude wrote:
Codeseven wrote:
I just want to get the most out of a capable amp and so far I'm not.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by "getting the most out of a capable amp" though...

What is it that you are expecting to achieve? Be as explicit as you can.

It may be time to start a new thread.


What I mean is that before I bought the M-III I researched it extensively and the Fender Mustang series was mentioned most often as being a great amp. I wanted a SS modeling amp for it's versatility so that i could play a wide range of music. By capable I think the amp electronics and speaker have the ability to achieve what I'm looking for. The problem has been, to me, I'm not hearing the 'warm' clear tones I've heard from tube amps and the cruchy tones are just, well, over crunched. I've played around a bit with different settings, and I'm getting better at it but to me I'm still not finding what I want.

I download about 100 of the most Popular and Rated user presets from Mustang Presets. There are maybe only 3 or 4 that I like. I'll go right them down and get back here so you can get a better idea of what I like. Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 7:28 pm
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mhowell wrote:
I am willing to concede the possibility that my hearing isn't as good as some but I honestly don't believe tube amps are better sounding that solid state amps. I've been playing for decades and I've played good and bad versions of both types.

Even if tube circuitry is better than SS the difference is so nuanced that there is no way I could justify the enormous price increase for a quality tube amp over SS.

Disclaimer: This is only opinion and I have never played professionally.


For low gain playing, there's not much of a difference, and in some cases the sound quality might even be in favor of some solid state amps over some tube amps.

However, whey you drive the signal up in strength, a tube amp will break and clip the signal in a harmonic way. A solid state will do hard clipping, which sounds quite unpleasant to most ears. That's where vacuum tube amps have their strength - the signal breaks up in a way that transform the guitar sound to a much richer sound. With a solid state amp, you need an effect stage that simulates that effect, like a distortion pedal that distorts the signal without boosting it.

Because the clipping is harmonic on a tube amp, you can also turn up the volume a lot more without it sounding bad. A good rule is that each Watt on a tube amp equals 5-10 W on a solid state amp. A 30W tube amp can usually be pushed to far louder than a 100W solid state amp. This is one of the reasons why tube amps are popular on stage. Another is that they're generally easy to repair.

Many musicians use Solid State amps for practice amps, both because you can play at much lower volume while still sounding good, and because they tend to weigh far less.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:04 am
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If the amp is still very new it might need "playing in" to get the speaker cone material to de-stiffen. Just an idea...
I now also try to keep a note of what pickup setting and tone I have, when I save a preset.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:58 am
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Quote:
Quote:
A solid-state (SS) amp that isn't a modelling amp is just going to make the guitar strings sound louder. It isn't going to add anything to the sound.

Vox Pathfinder, Peavey Bandit and Roland Chorus owners (incl BB King) would probably disagree.

OK, my wording was imperfect, I was using 'modelling' in the loosest sense of the word; I realise in this forum it has a tighter definition. What I meant to say was:

A solid-state amp that does no tone-shaping (whether by digital modelling or analogue effects) - ie in effect a clean, linear hi-fi-style amp, is just going to make the guitar strings sound louder.

That's just a simple statement of fact. I wouldn't class the Roland Jazz Chorus in the above category of amp. I don't know enough about the Pathfinder or Bandit to comment on them.

I was just trying to highlight informally the main differences between different types of amp (analogue solid-state vs analogue valve vs digital modelling), I wasn't trying to provide a perfect definition of a solid-state amp.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:41 am
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p90sdude wrote:
Codeseven wrote:
Thank you p90sdude.

Your welcome but, all I did was provide a few links, the real credit belongs to jedi2b and the other people who actually contributed the content.

Read that "Saturated vs Overdriven" page again - good stuff!



Thank you & jedi2b as well as all who contributed to these posts. They are very informative.


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:17 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
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Hey no problemo,

for the best tubelike presets in existence IMHO, check out the presets from"intheblues"

https://fuse.fender.com/mustangv2/prese ... intheblues

also check each preset demoed on youtube


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Post subject: Re: Need a Solid State 'and' a Tube Amp?
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 5:46 pm
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 12:45 pm
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arth1 wrote:
mhowell wrote:
I am willing to concede the possibility that my hearing isn't as good as some but I honestly don't believe tube amps are better sounding that solid state amps. I've been playing for decades and I've played good and bad versions of both types.

Even if tube circuitry is better than SS the difference is so nuanced that there is no way I could justify the enormous price increase for a quality tube amp over SS.

Disclaimer: This is only opinion and I have never played professionally.


For low gain playing, there's not much of a difference, and in some cases the sound quality might even be in favor of some solid state amps over some tube amps.

However, whey you drive the signal up in strength, a tube amp will break and clip the signal in a harmonic way. A solid state will do hard clipping, which sounds quite unpleasant to most ears. That's where vacuum tube amps have their strength - the signal breaks up in a way that transform the guitar sound to a much richer sound. With a solid state amp, you need an effect stage that simulates that effect, like a distortion pedal that distorts the signal without boosting it.

Because the clipping is harmonic on a tube amp, you can also turn up the volume a lot more without it sounding bad. A good rule is that each Watt on a tube amp equals 5-10 W on a solid state amp. A 30W tube amp can usually be pushed to far louder than a 100W solid state amp. This is one of the reasons why tube amps are popular on stage. Another is that they're generally easy to repair.

Many musicians use Solid State amps for practice amps, both because you can play at much lower volume while still sounding good, and because they tend to weigh far less.

What you say is partially true. The clipping characteristics is different between tubes and SS but tube amps can be driven to hard clipping.

With respect to tube watts and SS watts there is no difference. However, the apparent loudness is often greater in a tube amp but only in the distortion region. If both types are being played at a clean level then there is no difference in the perceived loudness. WARNING: that is a blanket statement with numerous qualifiers that I will not bore you with.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.


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