It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:25 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:53 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:58 am
Posts: 59
Location: Colorado
Hello all,

Right now I am figuring out what gear I want to invest in that is going to last me the next few years and will be good for playing local shows and recording. My grand scheme right now is to buy some more pedals and use my pedals for most of the effects (OD, fuzz, compressor, trem, chorus, looper, etc.). I would like to use a Mustang IV (v.2) for my amp, because of the modeling; the ability to go from a Fender Twin to an Orange to Marshall - you get the idea.

I have seen some talk around the forums about the Mustang's input being sensitive and causing problems with using pedals. I was just wondering if anyone else has done this, and what their experiences are.

I had a Mustang floor before so I am familiar with the program, but I like having knobs that I can turn in front of me to change effects sound, as well as the unique character of different pedals.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:49 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
Quote:
the Mustang's input being sensitive and causing problems with using pedals

Any amp's input can be overdriven (in a bad way) and spoil the sound. This isn't a Mustang-specific issue.

Some floor pedals deliberately overdrive their output (and thus the subsequent amp's input) to create a good sound. This sort of pedal is usually intended for use with a valve/tube amp, where overdriving the input (within limits) can be a good thing.

Using such a pedal with a solid-state amp will usually be a bad thing, because solid-state circuitry doesn't overdrive in a pleasing way.

As long as you understand this, and use the pedals for the effect they create, while keeping their output level sensible to avoid overdriving the subsequent SS amp, then pedals will work fine with an amp such as the Mustang.

That is, there is nothing wrong with using pedals with the Mustang. You just need to use them in the right way for that type of amp. I expect some pedals are specifically designed for use with valve amps, and some for use with SS amps, and some that work fine with both.

I agree with you that turning knobs can be a more intuitive way to adjust guitar effects than playing with buttons and 'virtual' controls. But I find the display and controls on the Mustang (3, 4 and 5) are pretty easy and quick to use. I bought mine (as have many others) precisely to avoid the need for lots of external pedals. I'd suggest you spend some time experimenting with one (in a store etc) before purchase, you may be pleasantly surprised how much you can do on it, quite simply.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:01 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:58 am
Posts: 59
Location: Colorado
Hey, thanks for that! I have gone to GC and played with one a couple of times - I love it! I haven't taken all my pedals down and plugged em in, though. I really like a lot of the effects on the mustang, but the inability to have more than one on a preset is kinda a dealbreaker for me, which is another reason I want to keep pedals as a part of my setup. I often use fuzz and overdrive together for my main lead sound, for example.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:53 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
Quote:
the inability to have more than one on a preset

To be pedantic: the amp's effects are arranged in four groups, and you can have one from each group (a total of four), in any order (if you use FUSE).

Fender have been asked several times (via this forum) to make this more flexible, eg a limit of four total is ok, but allow two from the same group. (This is typically problematic for manufacturers to implement; different effects need different amounts of DSP power, if a user chose the four most DSP-hungry effects, the amp wouldn't cope. A user interface that remains simple while sensibly alerting the user to such issues seems hard to achieve, so manufacturers circumvent it by limiting the configurable options)

What Fender could do is arrange for 'popular' combinations of effects to be split across the four groups in limited ways so they can still control the DSP load, while allowing more combinations. They've done this with the WAH effect I think on the V2 amps, they just need to do it with a few more.

Quote:
use fuzz and overdrive together

Interestingly, since having my Mustang and being able to experiment more easily, I use overdrive effects much less, and make much greater use of the natural gain/overdrive of the modelled amps. Just a suggestion for another way to try this.

Quote:
I want to keep pedals as a part of my setup

Another way to look at the Mustang is that it will obviate the need for some of your pedals, and you can keep the smaller number of other pedals you still want. So you still win.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:27 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:30 am
Posts: 375
That's a good point, Scott.

For example- the op likes fuzz WITH od. There are at least two ways to do this:

1) Get the od from the amp model, and add a fuzz effect from the stomp menu. I've actually done this several times to get a nice raucous tone.

2) Keep your drive and fuzz pedals, and add them to the mix. ala- get a nice crunchy amp tone, and add an od "stomp". Plug your favorite fuzz into the main input. This is my standard way of doing things- except I don't really use the virtual dirt stomps. I use an od running into a distortion in front to add flavor to the amp tone. Just like you would with a regular valve or ss amp, I get 4 different shades of dirty out of 1 amp tone.

For the OP: As a Mustang owner and pedal user, I've found it works best to keep the level at or near unity, and use the gain/dist/fuzz control on the pedal to dial in the dirt to taste. You CAN push the level somewhat, you just have to experiment. However, it won't necessarily do what you've come to expect with a tube amp. There are no tubes here TO overdrive, so driving the input will just add volume. If it's THAT effect you want, use the included od "stomps". A clean boost, or low gain od that works mainly by driving the amp, won't do a whole lot for you with a digi preamp like this. A pedal that generates it's own distortion works like a charm.

My OD pedal (an OCD) has a ton of level boost available- up to 26 db- so I go easy on the level with that one. The distortion- an MXR '78 Distortion, not so much, and I can take more liberties with it. As someone else stated, you just have to use the tools the right way for the different types of amp.

When you DO overdrive the input, a limiter of some sort kicks in. It will actually get quieter! You'll get lots of compression, but not as much nasty digi clipping as you'd expect. I discovered this accidentally one day, when I got a little wild with that OCD.

To sum, the best way to get the most out of these excellent amps is to approach them for what they are- and adjust your thinking to work with it. Don't hesitate to ask questions here, either- there's a lot of us that use them!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:57 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:38 pm
Posts: 1744
I wasn't a huge fan of the mustang Fuzz stomp until I tried using it paired with the 57 Champ. Now that is probably my favorite combination for my lead tone. The 57 Champ works great as an OD for the fuzz stomp to my ears

I'd be curious what external fuzz pedals folks have good luck with. I tried a fuzz face but didn't have much luck with it.

My Rat and Ultimate Drive work swimmingly with my mustang though and certainly adds to the flexibility

_________________
YMMV

Chont's Mustang Presets


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:08 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:58 am
Posts: 59
Location: Colorado
I use a Joyo Voodoo Octave for my fuzz pedal.

I personally think fuzz pedals sound terrible on their own (and worse after an overdrive), but I have found if I put it right before my overdrive, it sounds great. Makes the tone really thick and just a little broken up and really makes it sing. I think fuzz is characteristically unruly, and I definitely have to tweak it to make it sound good.

I just got an ultimate drive a couple of days ago! I haven't had a chance to try it out yet but today after work I am lockin myself down with it :mrgreen:

How do you like the blackbox on the mustang compared to the rat?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:41 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:38 pm
Posts: 1744
Andy2theT wrote:
I use a Joyo Voodoo Octave for my fuzz pedal.

I personally think fuzz pedals sound terrible on their own (and worse after an overdrive), but I have found if I put it right before my overdrive, it sounds great. Makes the tone really thick and just a little broken up and really makes it sing. I think fuzz is characteristically unruly, and I definitely have to tweak it to make it sound good.

I just got an ultimate drive a couple of days ago! I haven't had a chance to try it out yet but today after work I am lockin myself down with it :mrgreen:

How do you like the blackbox on the mustang compared to the rat?

I think the blackbox is pretty spot on but I find the pedal to be just a bit smoother for leads. I got it for flexibility since I have a Mustang II and thus only two footswitch options

Love the Joyo stuff. The UD is one of my favorite pedals. I use it for mild to med gain and for an OD behind my Muff clone. Need to check out their Fuzz. They have a new line coming out so I'm curious to see what's new.

_________________
YMMV

Chont's Mustang Presets


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:09 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:58 am
Posts: 59
Location: Colorado
Me too, man! I am planning to get their American sound pedal next month (wife's got me on a one-pedal-per-month limit), because I'm really curious to see how it will sound without an amp to play through a PA system, so I don't have to take the amp everytime I want to play a coffee shop. Their new "iron man" series looks promising, I just hope they don't start raising their prices now that they're getting really well known. Their VT-30 amp (a hot rod clone) sounds really good from demos I've seen as well, and they're about the same price as a mustang IV, but they're not available in the US yet and I'd rather have a mustang anyways.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:33 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:30 am
Posts: 375
Speaking of fuzz, I've tried the Swollen Pickle jumbo fuzz with my Mustang with disappointing results. I suspect, however, that the problem was ME, not the amp or pedal. When I plugged it into my MarkBass amp ( also digi/solid state), it sounded fantastic- pure essence of Cliff Burton.

I'm curious to see if the Fulltone '69 fuzz I tried out fares any better- I LOVED it through a Blues Deluxe- but I doubt it's still there. That amp has a much more pronounced midrange presence, though- plus it's a 40 watt tube amp. Lol- I need a soundproof studio! I want that amp- BAD- even though it's too loud for my apartment. It just has "that sound"- the one in my head- without even trying. I can only imagine the beautiful roar that would result from cranking it while turning the tone on the guitar down. That dark, thick, amp-about-to-explode tone I love so much.

I did go home and immediately plug my LP into the Mustang, flipped to the basic '57 deluxe preset, and added the onboard fuzz effect. After cranking both, I got a fairly satisfying facsimile of the tone I got in the store. Some further eq and effect tweaking would likely improve it. My GC has the amps placed inside a shelf, so the open back sound is reflected right back at you- hard to duplicate that sound at home...


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:45 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:38 pm
Posts: 1744
pyroman wrote:
Speaking of fuzz, I've tried the Swollen Pickle jumbo fuzz with my Mustang with disappointing results. I suspect, however, that the problem was ME, not the amp or pedal.

The swollen pickle supposedly has an internal trimpot to adjust the midrange. I wonder if that would make a difference for you. The problem I’ve had with fuzz on the mustang is the excessive low end that seems to take over which an overdrive pedal right behind it tames and smoothes out the fuzz. I would love to get my hands on a Skreddy Lunar module which has an extra gain stage to replicate the Fuzz w/ OD in one pedal. Feller at work was selling one and I didn’t jump on it fast enough.

_________________
YMMV

Chont's Mustang Presets


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:49 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Posts: 253
Location: PA, USA
I'm using my MIII v2 as a "normal" amp with a TC Nova System and is sounds fantastic. I keep the Nova System's output level low and have several clean amp presets setup with a little bit of reverb. My favorites are the Two Rock and the 65 Deluxe. Sounds warm and loud. No difference to my ears vs $1,000+ amps.

_________________
Guitars: Fender A.D.E Strat - Schecter PT with Duncans - Martin OOOC16RGTE
PA Gear: Alesis MultiMix 10 Mixer - Carvin FX2 - EV ZLX12P Powered Speakers
Amps: Fender Mustang III v2 - Alto Kick 12
Effects: Line 6 M13


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Using MIV as Normal Amp
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:34 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:29 pm
Posts: 1
I would agree 100%. I just purchased a Mustang III V2 at the suggestion of a friend. I was complaining about not being able to find a nice, small, super lightweight amp. I also use a TC Nova System with the Mustang. It sounds great. My other amp is a Carr Slant 6V, a "boutique" tube amp. The Mustang can hang with that amp. I almost can't believe it.

paul


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: