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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:55 am
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jedi2b wrote:
I do not see the need for ever connecting the Mustang Floor/3/4/5 to the computer other than to do firmware upgrades


yes but you're missing out on moving effects in the chain - the amp always adds them at the front

anyway Fuse looks identical to Ableton s/w so must be the same designers

I doubt Fender would outsource to India - most people who've done it once don't do it twice.. the admin time goes through the roof


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:58 pm
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markcc wrote:
jedi2b wrote:
I do not see the need for ever connecting the Mustang Floor/3/4/5 to the computer other than to do firmware upgrades


yes but you're missing out on moving effects in the chain - the amp always adds them at the front



actually I don't think it does. if you look at default settings, it puts things where they make the most sense....like stuff that would be in effects loop is there.

it all sounds great/the same anyway. I use real pedals and put it all in the front

the speaker is what makes the sound.

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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:08 pm
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scott-uk wrote:

Quote:
open up the [FUSE] software by making a software developers kit available

+1. In fact, +1000.

Quote:
Someone has done it for LINUX - it's called PLUG

I haven't seen this (yet - off to have a look next!) but if this offers different/better features than FUSE, there would be motivation for porting it back to Windows. This shouldn't be a big task.


I was thinking...
and if any of us would try to write to the developer who made the open-source graphical user interfaces for a lot of products Roland / Boss? even dismissed pedalboards as my first one, Boss GT-5...
as many know, in the Roland house about products for guitar or guitar synth, was made one an only exception:they released the graphical interface for the VG99, their flagship product.
Users of all other pedalboards or pedalboards synthesizers (as i that have a GR55 guitar synth) were left to themselves and had to do without it if it was not for that altruist good developper ..
for example, in the case of Roland GR55 here is the page with the latest graphical interface and controller in real time, for free.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/
the quality level of these GUI /real time controllers is excellent. Even the official VG99 GUI (that i downloaded to know it) can't beat these alternative interfaces.

When i used for the first time with GR55 i couldn't believe how easy was to manage presets, but most important to manage quickly the various sections on the pedalboard( multi effects , instruments modeler and amp/cab/stomp modeler) especially the dozens of parameters that are in the section of each of the two modules synthesizers : all in one page visible at the same time and all reachable in one click instead of have to deal with that very long and endless menus to scroll up and down using the jog dial on the pedalboard .
Before having this interface, you lost your desire to use it for what it was stressful .

And gradually he has made some updates based on user requests, especially if ( logically) there were some bugs to fix . But even in the case of simple aesthetic improvements to approach the aesthetic graphics of the pedalboard itself or otherwise of Boss pedals (the design of typical knobs in the main page effect chain/signal paths for example)


I think that if he will believe in this new project, he could also easily create something different, and better than FUSE, according to our requests for features to be included and the graphics to use ...

the only problem is that I am not native English speaker and I could be in trouble if the explanations to be given become too technical and complex ..
then if you find it a good idea, I ask for your help to consult this developer.
What do you think? someone bring himself to do this?

Dimitri

EDIT: I forgot to say that open source GUI run smoothly also under Windows (seven in my case) and there is the version for Mac , not just Linux.


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:04 am
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frondizi wrote:
I think that if he will believe in this new project, he could also easily create something different, and better than FUSE, according to our requests for features to be included and the graphics to use ...


There's only one problem with this, or any other approach outside of a Fender-blessed effort. Creating a new interface based on how things are now done is no guarantee it will work in the future if Fender changes something. Someone already mentioned the problems that occurred with one project called "Horse Tamer" that broke when Version 2 of the amp was released. That's why I would be hesitant to approach building a replacement knowing it could break at any point in time with either a new version of the amp, or a maintenance update to the amp.

With a Fender-supported SDK as the core, it would then be worth doing because that SDK would fall into the standard QA and testing cycle of any new releases or maintenance updates.

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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:15 am
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A SDK would be great, and I've seen how it can benefit other programs. PC games in particular really come to life once the entire Internet starts collaborating on making them better. But you have to figure Fender is never going to release one, as they surely could not support multiple home-grown versions of their software. From their point of view (centered around sales and support), they will probably want to keep everyone in the same exact sandbox.

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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:55 am
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scott-uk wrote:
lacks many features that virtually all other modelers have

I'm curious which features? Certainly in their price range the various Mustang models seem to me to offer (mostly) more than the competition? I can understand your point though if a feature critical to you is one of the (few) Fender chose to omit.


My $169 Zoom G3 can have just about any effect in any order that I want. The Mustangs only have amp EQ - no graphic or parametric, you can't use a compressor and an OD at the same time. Those are the most problematic for me but virtually every modeler on the market has far more effects and is far more versatile.

Quote:
I create logical sets for my show. But I can no longer deal with the fact that it takes a half an hour to rearrange my sets

Quote:
As a practical workaround, how about this: set up all your presets in one way that you want them, then 'backup' the amp. Then arrange the presets in one of the other ways you want them, and 'backup' the amp again (to a different filename). Repeat for all (or your most common) combinations of presets - I'm assuming you have a reasonable number of permutations so this shouldn't take too long. (On the other hand, if you have a bespoke set for every gig, this approach isn't going t0 work - but then is any other?).

You now have a series of backups with all the combinations you regularly use. Simply 'restore' the appropriate set back to the amp, which is a single operation in FUSE. If you do have too many to want to store them all separately, then you could store the major ones and after restoring one of these, just have a much smaller set of manual changes to make.

No, that isn't a perfect solution, and it sounds like you may already have abandoned the Mustang so may not be interested in the above. But it would be a time-saving way, with the limitations of the tools currently available, to achieve what you want.


I need to do it right before or during a gig.

Someone on this board wrote a utility that allowed you to rearrange Mustang presets but, sadly it doesn't work with V.2. This indicates to me that it is a relatively simple task.


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:15 am
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vintagevibe wrote:
My $169 Zoom G3 can have just about any effect in any order that I want. The Mustangs only have amp EQ - no graphic or parametric, you can't use a compressor and an OD at the same time. Those are the most problematic for me but virtually every modeler on the market has far more effects and is far more versatile.

Maybe the key to making a great sounding modeler is simplicity then, since every 'Zoom' or 'Line 6' I've ever heard left a lot to be desired in the 'tone' department.

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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:23 am
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vintagevibe:
I feel your pain, My Mustang III V2 is close to being perfect but...
I have both 4 and 2 button switches and am still SO limited, they should be way more programmable, say one switch programmed to increase gain, another to increase volume (as in the boss pedals). Also, two simultaneous stomps (clean and overdrive) would be a HUGE plus for me.
Basically, the way I use my Mustang III V2 now is with a ZOOM G3X (for delay, tremelo and clean boost mostly) but I would love to have a little (not a lot) more programmablilty in the software/hardware...


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:06 am
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dunedindragon wrote:

There's only one problem with this, or any other approach outside of a Fender-blessed effort. Creating a new interface based on how things are now done is no guarantee it will work in the future if Fender changes something. Someone already mentioned the problems that occurred with one project called "Horse Tamer" that broke when Version 2 of the amp was released. That's why I would be hesitant to approach building a replacement knowing it could break at any point in time with either a new version of the amp, or a maintenance update to the amp.

With a Fender-supported SDK as the core, it would then be worth doing because that SDK would fall into the standard QA and testing cycle of any new releases or maintenance updates.


strings10927 wrote:
A SDK would be great, and I've seen how it can benefit other programs. PC games in particular really come to life once the entire Internet starts collaborating on making them better. But you have to figure Fender is never going to release one, as they surely could not support multiple home-grown versions of their software. From their point of view (centered around sales and support), they will probably want to keep everyone in the same exact sandbox.


Yes, but who give us that Software development kit? it is just an hypothesis.

the possibility to get an open source GUI /real time controller is much more real from that developper i was talking about... (i'm not saying that is a done deal)

and it does not seem to me that every little Fender produces a line with the new platform so that there is a risk that a GUI alternative no longer operate soon ..
and even then ... you think it was easy to deal with the numerous amount of pedalboards Roland / Boss?
He had to overcome various difficulties to make everything work well ... for example in gr55 GUI, took a lot of time to be able to include the management of both factory presets banks (Lead, Rhythm, other) and User presets banks. if I remember correctly in the early versions did not work sync with the factory presets and those could not be included in the interface ... so you could see and manage only the User patches (your preset). or maybe it was the opposite situation .. Yes: factory preset banks, No: user presets .. anyway it was a difficult problem to solve.

difficulties encountered on Windows first and later on Mac / iOS, a version after the other ... because users of Mac operating systems clamored to have their working interface without to have to use another O.S.

And then , do not we worry ahead of time about what would happen if ... change this or that.
In that case , however, a solution could be studied by the developer. To my knowledge he has never abbandoned so far none of the projects that he had started.

Rather ... the real issue is whether or not he will accept any request for any of us .

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:26 pm
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The guy who did Plug did not have an SDK
But he did/does have knowledge of USB control on Linux
TBH it's probably easier on Linux than Windows

It's not so complicated if you know how to get the USB io sorted out. I certainly don't!
Amending actual controls in the presets *divorced from the amp and Fuse's live feedback* is not hard and the difference from v1 to v2 is small. I guess Horse Tamer author must have lost interest.
My thing - if I complete it - will allow reordering via drag and drop, and blind editing of fx order , cab selection and all the levels.. but I'm not convinced anyone would use it much as at the end you would have to download either a zip of the 100 presets or have them emailed to you. (Dumb web browsers don't provide methods to download more than one file at a time. Uploading 100 files is only marginally better.)
Making my thing standalone is not so easy either - it's a web program (not an app either)


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:23 am
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markcc wrote:
but I'm not convinced anyone would use it much as at the end you would have to download either a zip of the 100 presets or have them emailed to you. (Dumb web browsers don't provide methods to download more than one file at a time. Uploading 100 files is only marginally better.)
Making my thing standalone is not so easy either - it's a web program (not an app either)


Hi Mark,
why we would need to dowload a file with 100 presets? just to understand how it works...
i guess because your GUI would have empty presets when is installed the first time.
how large would be that file?

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:26 am
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My thing would work so
a) you upload your set of presets to my web site from your PC
(there is a browser facility to let the user upload multiple files in a few clicks)
b) you re- order them as needed and make your edits to names /descriptions/levels
c) now you want to get them back to your PC..

you can't download 100 files one by one - not fun
there is no browser facility to download more than one file at a time

workaround: make the 100 files into a zip and have it mailed back to yourself - or download it
Zip will be tiny - each preset is under 3k and zipped will be well under 300k
(It will work with less than 100 presets but the full 100 will be common usage for MIII and up)


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:10 am
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strings10927 wrote:
vintagevibe wrote:
My $169 Zoom G3 can have just about any effect in any order that I want. The Mustangs only have amp EQ - no graphic or parametric, you can't use a compressor and an OD at the same time. Those are the most problematic for me but virtually every modeler on the market has far more effects and is far more versatile.

Maybe the key to making a great sounding modeler is simplicity then, since every 'Zoom' or 'Line 6' I've ever heard left a lot to be desired in the 'tone' department.



I've gigged extensively with both and I could not disagree with you more. I sold my HD5000 and gigged with a Zoom G5 fo over a year and was MUCH happier with my sound. The only problem was that their floor board arrangement was a nightmare.


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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:27 am
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vintagevibe wrote:
virtually every modeler on the market has far more effects and is far more versatile.

vintagevibe wrote:
The only problem was that their floor board arrangement was a nightmare.

That doesn't sound very versatile.

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Post subject: Re: Abandoning Mustang because Fender already has...
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:11 am
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All of this is another reason I am totally baffled that Fender did not include MIDI on the combo amps... Especially when it is already implemented on the FLOOR model! :roll:
It would make this amp line near perfect!
100 bucks could buy you a 10 switch board with expression pedals!
BOOM!!! all you could ever need!!


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